Robert99

You may be thinking of an hour long show on the Cooper jumping problems that appeared on a cable channel (National Geographic?) several years ago. The test jumper was a Hollywood stuntman named Troy Hartman (?) who was stated to have 5000 jumps to his credit. Apparently, all those jumps were on square canopies sinces Hartman was checked out on the round ParaCommander and given instructions on PLFs on camera. If I remember correctly, some of the statements Hartman made on camera about the free falls were later modified by him. But in any event, note all the sunshine and nice blue skies during the jump in Falflung's video. The jumper could easily stabilize himself using the ground for reference. Cooper's jump was made at night and above an overcast, with additional cloud layers below that, and he could not see the ground or anything else to help stabilize himself. Aerodynamically, with the money bag and other items he apparently attached to himself in a non-symmetrical manner, it is practically a given that Cooper would tumble.

And don't forget Amazon whose skydiving feats probably exceed those of everyone else on this thread combined.

Robert99 - Retired Aeronautical Engineer and general aviation pilot with a limited amount of skydiving experience. Believes Cooper died in the jump and that his name has never been mentioned on this thread. Wolfriverjoe's assessment of me (and the others) is correct but it is very difficult to formulate questions for this thread that can provide meaningful answers. If you stick around for a while, you will understand what I mean.

About the time the hijacked airliner was flying through the Portland/Vancouver area, the Portland Airport was reporting a ground wind of about 11 MPH, visibility of 10+ miles, and light rain showers. If you call that a storm, then I agree with you that you are not qualified to make that assessment. Bite yourself.

Sailshaw, YOU seem to have a problem even understanding your own posts. You have previously claimed to be a pilot who has "flown above the clouds" and "at night". Yet you don't even know how cloud heights are measured. You have been pushing a Cooper candidate as hard as anyone else on this thread but the candidate you propose can be completely eliminated by your own recent admissions. Nevertheless, you feel free to insult other people. And I am referring to your remarks about Blevins.

Based on reports by qualified observers, Hurricane Marla was spotted reviewing posts on DZ earlier this week.

Sailshaw, YOU are hardly the one to accuse other people of having thick skulls.

And then again, maybe you don't. You are making a subjective statement about a subject in which you admit little knowledge. Frankly, I would expect any 17 year old, serious, private pilot would be able to answer most, if not all, of those questions.

Jerry, Keeping in mind that you and I have some big differences about the flight path of the airliner, could you ask the NG which way they headed after taking off as they attempted to intercept the airliner? There are some comments in Ralph H.'s book that seems to indicate they headed to the southwest.

Jerry, Maybe the answer to that is in the missing portions of the Seattle ATC radio transcripts.

Jerry, I have viewed the weather information available in the historical records, the FBI weather information presented on this thread by Larry Carr, and the actual FAA weather information that was recorded and distributed just minutes after the airliner passed through the Portland/Vancouver area. All of this information is consistent. I have already made my comments and I stand by them!

No one is calling Ralph H. a liar. But you are claiming that his version of the weather takes precedence over all other weather reports. You may call the weather that evening "rotten" but would you also answer the following questions: 1. What are your qualifications for making "authorative" statements about the weather conditions? 2. Do you know what barometric pressure is and how it is determined and adjusted to report it? 3. Do you know how visibility is determined and reported? 4. Do you know how cloud heights are determined and reported? 5. Do you know how cloud layers are defined? 6. Do you know how ground wind speed is measured and reported? 7. Do you know how ground wind direction is determined and reported? 8. Do you know how rainfall is measured and reported? 9. Do you know how humidity is measured and reported? 10. Do you know how winds aloft are determined and reported? 11. Do you know the differences in the way meteorological data is reported to the general public and to aviators? 12. Is there anything else in your background that makes you feel more qualified to make weather observations and reports than the National Weather Service personnel, FAA weather trained personnel, and other trained personnel? 13. Is a general statement in Ralph H.'s book about the weather more accurate than actual weather reports and observations released by the FBI in Seattle? 14. Anything else you would care to add or comment on? I exist, therefore I am. Georger, I am certain you are on the right track. Indeed, I am!

No one is calling Ralph H. a liar. But you are claiming that his version of the weather takes precedence over all other weather reports. You may call the weather that evening "rotten" but would you also answer the following questions: 1. What are your qualifications for making "authorative" statements about the weather conditions? 2. Do you know what barometric pressure is and how it is determined and adjusted to report it? 3. Do you know how visibility is determined and reported? 4. Do you know how cloud heights are determined and reported? 5. Do you know how cloud layers are defined? 6. Do you know how ground wind speed is measured and reported? 7. Do you know how ground wind direction is determined and reported? 8. Do you know how rainfall is measured and reported? 9. Do you know how humidity is measured and reported? 10. Do you know how winds aloft are determined and reported? 11. Do you know the differences in the way meteorological data is reported to the general public and to aviators? 12. Is there anything else in your background that makes you feel more qualified to make weather observations and reports than the National Weather Service personnel, FAA weather trained personnel, and other trained personnel? 13. Is a general statement in Ralph H.'s book about the weather more accurate than actual weather reports and observations released by the FBI in Seattle? 14. Anything else you would care to add or comment on?

Jerry, The people who prepared the records were eyewitnesses in the Portland/Seattle area and, with all due respect, probably knew a lot more about how to measure and determine the weather conditions than the pilots, FBI agents, and whoever else you are referring to. Of course I wasn't there and neither were you.

Jerry, Only you are calling people liars. Your "eyewitnesses" were both in the Portland/Vancouver area and their information is contradicted by people who actually get paid to monitor the weather. Such as the National Weather Service personnel, who generated forecasts for the FAA and the general public, and the people at the Portland International Airport, who collected the data for such things as the FAA hourly sequence reports. In addition, you are also calling such people as Larry Carr a liar since he supplied information to this list that also contradicts your "eyewitnesses".

Jo, My suggestion was that you find out what the term "weather front" means. If it is not a technical term when you see it on TV, then it is not a technical term in my suggestion. I am not a mind reader. I only know what you wrote and not what you thought you were "saying". Pick, pick, pick? I didn't know you had ever made a "casual comment". And I am not a former teacher.

It is just a damned good thing that 305 was not taxi-ing on the I-5 at 8:05. They could have been drowned alive by the flash flood and forgo Duane's skydive. "Afraid for our lives????" A little over the top, perhaps?? Did we poo our panties when the giant tsunami washed our car off the I-5 and out to sea with all the houses and other flotsom? Out with all those giant white sharks and snakes and ocean monsters?? Bob, You are beginning to make sense. Are you okay?

You need to take a look at the weather information that is available on weatherunderground.com, the weather information posted a while back on this thread by Larry Carr (FBI, Seattle), the conversations about weather in the radio transcripts while the airliner was on the ground in Seattle, and other sources. Does "rotten" and "horrible" overrule the actual quantative weather data measured by professional meteorologists?

I so NOT understand why they continue to HASH the weather as everyone knows the Weather was NOT the same from Seattle to Portland and there were breaks in this front. If the WEATHER was so bad Cooper could not jump I doubt the plane would even have taken off. After all they wanted Cooper OFF of that plane...not for him to stay on it because of bad weather. Jo, there were not any weather fronts between Seattle and Portland the evening of the hijacking. You need to look up the meaning of a weather front. Regardless of the weather, the airliner took off because Cooper wanted to take off and he claimed to have a bomb which he would set off if they didn't take off. Their "customer" got his wish. The crew did want him off their airplane and would probably have been utterly delighted if he had never boarded it in the first place.

Typhoon Freda, or Tropical Storm Freda, was long gone by the 1971 date of the hijacking and no such typhoons or storms were in the area that evening. Offhand, I would say that the Los Angeles area has more wild weather than Portland. Didn't the winds exceed 100 MPH is LA about a month ago? I seem to remember a lot of live video of trees being blown down, etc.. A number of years ago, I was headed east from LA on I-10 after such a wind storm and, in some of the un-named "gorges" along that route, trees were lying on the ground all over the place.

Maybe I haven't heard of it but I have driven through most of it. Doesn't the wind typically enter the gorge east of Portland/Vancouver and continue on east? The weather the lady was describing was a considerable distance east of any flight path that the hijacked airliner would be on.

Just exactly where is this famous Columbia Gorge that you mention? Also, what time of day did the dear lady drive through the area? While I have driven I-5 from the Oregon/California border to Seattle, I don't remember anything exceptional about the geography, at least gorge wise. If you want to see some rough terrain, you should visit Arizona. But be sure to bring your passport, you will probably need it at the AZ immigration checkpoints in the northern part of the state. ADDENDUM: I obviously should have read the rest of the new posts before posting the above. Georger covers the point in his usual excellent style.

Jerry, I understand your statements. It was quite cloudy in Portland, the visibility at the airport was about 10 statute miles, there were light rain showers in the area. The temperature was in the 40s all day long. Everything adds up to a relatively miserable day for people who were outside in the weather. The aircraft in and out of the Portland area were definitely having to fly on instruments. Nevertheless, the above does not add up to stormy weather. The airline pilots should not have had a problem with it. They fly IFR enough to maintain a high instrument proficiency. The military helicopters pilots and National Guard pilots probably had a somewhat lower IFR proficiency and would describe the weather as being worse. The end result is we are comparing subjective data with quantative data.

I thought there was ref to turbulence in H's book? I agree there is nothing (obvious) about turbulence in the transcripts. I just find it wierd that there is not ample testimony-documentation about the wv condx, from many perspectives, right in the FBi files. Apparently Tom & Carol found nothing. I mean with the whole hero angle from thepress you would think somebody would pause to ask and publish: "he bailed into hellish weather" or "he bailed into turbulence" or "he bailed into a pleasant but foggy evening at the beach" ? There is more attention given to his shoes than the weather! Tom does have something along the lines you mention. It is essentially information that Larry Carr posted on this thread. And it is consistent with the other weather data. H. does have statements about Cooper jumping into a bad storm in his book. But there is nothing in the weather data to support those statements. They may have been plugged into the various books long after the fact to juice things up for one reason or another.

I thought it was you who brought Mensa up? I thought it was funny whoever did. I just threw Mensa in, seemed appropriate at the time? I think it was Guru312 who mentioned Mensa in a post to Jerry Thomas. There was something about rubbing his Mensa card to help understand what Jerry wrote. Basically, I would like to know how that works, if it does. My understanding of the situation is that with a Mensa membership card and a ten dollar bill, you can usually be assured of getting a hamburger at McDonalds. I hadn't heard of a secondary use for them.