Robert99

Hangdiver, I think you have just proven that the "Feb 46" on the Amboy parachute is NOT a date stamp. On the stamp for your chute (shown in your attachment), the date portion is listed as "Date of MFG: May 11, 1945". I presume cargo parachutes also had date stamps and that they would be done in a similar manner as above. Thus, the "Feb 46", which is isolated from any other markings, is NOT a date stamp, whatever it may be. In any event, the Amboy parachute is not relevant to the Cooper hijacking. Robert99

Jo, did you do the oatmeal tests but substituting Fiber One and Wheaties as requested?

377, In the early 1960s, the Parachute Club of America was involved, apparently in connection with a group of psychologists, in a study of the psychological make-up of skydivers. Based on what I saw, the PCA was very interested in that study and encouraged its members to cooperate. I participated in that study by filling out a lengthy and detailed booklet that the PCA sent me. However, I never saw the results of the study being discussed anywhere. Presumably, the study would have been published in a professional journal and I would have expected something to be written about the results in the PCA magazine. But I never saw a single thing or heard of the study again. Do you know if the results of the study were published and, if so, can a copy of them be obtained at this late date. I just want to check to make sure that my initial impressions of skydivers were correct. Robert99

As I recall, the Ramparts Magazine article picture of Ted Braden showed blue or blue-green eyes, not brown. Brown contacts might have been used by Cooper but there is no evidence that this occurred. Braden's history is fascinating. How the hell did he duck prosecution for desertion and get reinstated (and possibly even promoted) like it never happened? What card was he holding that caused intervention on his behalf by General John Singlaub? Braden took careless risks in Vietnam and was criticized by his colleagues for unnecessarily putting them and the missions in danger. This trait could fit Cooper. Braden also apparently knew how to travel internationally with fake ID. The SOG guys who served with him have their reasons for suspecting Braden. It might be something intangible. They might see a signature, something about the crime that has Braden's particular touch. Braden is dead now. Ended up as a truck driver. His last occupation has always struck me as odd given his background and apparent thirst for living on the edge. Maybe he was hauling contraband. 377 Cooper's eyes were seen by Florence for a few seconds when he looked over the top of his glasses. This is what I have heard before, here in the forum and in articles. It also has been discussed in this forum that Cooper may have had amphetamines on his person. Unfortunately, I do not have a source for these last two statements, but here is what I have always wondered. Eyes dilate for many different reasons. Alcohol and drug use (included prescriptions), mental strain, anxiety and stress, low lighting (behind sunglasses, low light in the cabin), etc. His eyes could have been dilated for these reasons alone, making any eye color seem dark, black or brown. Should a suspect who matches other physical characteristics, such as; approximate age, height, weight, hair color and style of Cooper be dismissed alone on his eye color? The FBI wanted poster states his eyes were "possibly brown" (attached). Resources explaining eye dilation: http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=eye-opener-why-do-pupils-dialate http://www.calmclinic.com/anxiety/symptoms/pupil There is a statement in Tosaw's book to the effect that Cooper told Tina he had some pills that would keep the flight crew awake in the event they got sleepy. I don't have a page number for that statement but it was during the time they were on the ground in Seattle if I remember correctly. Robert99

I was using the ambient temperature as measured by the airliner's equipment and corrected (reduced) for temperature rise due to the airliner's speed. The "lapse rate" was not used. It was actual measured temperature at 10,000 feet. Robert99

Some one trained in freefall jumps, stationed in, or from the region (and currently back in it, to acclimate like you mentioned). I think there is a good chance there might be a few layers under the suit, so the weather might not have been as tough on him. Some one with a knowledge of survival skills, and a healthy respect for the environment. One with a plan and a few plan B's as well. Not some one who "wings it" and hopes luck will win out. Matt The wind chill factor would have been about 35 degrees below zero Fahrenheit when Cooper separated from the aircraft. It would, of course, decrease as he slowed down and got lower. On the subject of military free-fall parachutists, I saw an Army demonstration of that in the 1963-1965 time frame. I can't remember the exact date. But it was at the start of the build up in Army special forces training. Robert99

377, April 18, 1964 is the date I came down on the reserve. Three months to the 50th anniversary of that day. To add a bit to the reserves used on the east coast in the early 1960s, my jump experience was all with a very small club located in the Virginia Tidewater area. We jumped at an abandoned airport with about three paved runways. There were probably not more than five regular jumpers and about another five sometimes interested visitors. On the date of my malfunction, I think there were a total of about four people on the airport. They were the jump plane pilot and his wife, plus my instructor who was also a rigger, and myself. We jumped mostly from a Piper Pacer which was really doing it the hard way. One day my instructor decided that he wanted to jump and pull the reserve only. I can't say with complete certainty that his reserve was a twill canopy but I think it was. I was on the ground when he jumped and he pulled the reserve which opened with no problem (he had packed it). Then I noticed that he was trying to do something to his rig harness and for a while coming down he was horizontal to the ground. He got down with no problems but it turns out that one of the snaps on the reserve had come unfastened prior to the opening. Thus, the whole opening load was on one snap on his harness. And he was not able to fasten the other snap after the opening. Actually, even with a belly tie down strap, the reserves we used usually had one snap unfastened by the time the main canopy opened. Robert99

377, Thanks to you west coast types hogging most of the military surplus equipment, we had to use twill reserves on the east coast and even they were hard to find. The ripstop backpack canopies were almost impossible to find. I had the "honor" of coming down on a twill reserve on my 9th jump. Since I am here today, I can't really complain. But the overall experience did cause me to give some thought about $20 reserves and $40 main canopies and how much I valued my life. Robert99

To those folks who think the date of manufacture is Feb 46, are there words such as "Date of Manufacture", or abbreviations to that effect, within an inch or two of the Feb 46? If not, then where do you get the idea that "Feb 46" even applies to a calendar date? Robert99

Jo, You need to mend some fences with Bruce Smith. He is the thread's expert on the subject of the hijacking parachutes. Surely you remember that he posted some lengthy articles with pictures of those parachutes some time back. I have no idea what Cossey would say about the parachutes, assuming he said anything in the first place. On the matter of the left-hand pull, Cossey would not make that change unless requested by Hayden, or whoever owned the parachute. And for an emergency parachute, the only reason for a left-hand pull is that the owner and normal wearer of the parachute is left handed. While I have seen skydivers with right-hand pull ripcords mounted on the right side of the body, that has now apparently gone the way of ripcords in general with respect to serious skydivers. Robert99 ROBERT99 READ what I said: Hayden sent 2 chutes that had been packed by Cossey! BOTH chutes identical with diffent containers. Robert - what is that telling you? Cossey says he sent 2 chutes and one was with a left hand pull. So that is 2 more chutes. Hayden was reimbursed for his chute Cossey was reimbursed for a chute. Yet, it was supposedly Hayden's chute Cooper used. Why would Cossey get paid for a chute if neither of his were used? Hayden 2 chutes Cossey 2 chutes Forget the front chutes they are not important other than what happened to the dummy chute. Did Cooper use it for something? I could care less what BRUCE wrote he cannot write anything FACTUAL as he has to FLOWER It to his way of thinking & believe you me he can mess things up. Have YOU ever read what he wrote about Tina! LOOK and READ what he did to TINA and her sister and brother-in-law and YOU call him a WRITER - no way. An Inquirer reporter - yea! If he is writing a book about a real crime - believe U me it will just be another freak story...I told him to LEAVE me out of the BOOK entirely! I have been a VICTIM of his lies and story telling - therefore I do NOT believe a word he says. I catch you lieing and abusing someone 1st time - you don't get a second chance. Jo, Why don't you read what I said? Bruce Smith has done some genuine checking out of the parachute stories and he has posted information on this thread about it. Bruce has information. You and Blevins have speculations. In the final analysis, the parachutes are not a major item, or even an important factor, in the Cooper saga. Robert99

Before WW2 chutes were mostly made of silk. After Japan entered the war, no more silk was imported to the US. First test of a nylon chute was done in 1942. After that time, almost all American parachutes used in WW2 were made of nylon, since silk was almost non-existent. Dupont went to full production, making not only chutes, but stockings and tires for B-bombers. The chances that a military era chute with a Date of Manufacture of Feb 46 was actually made of silk (as Cossey claimed) are LESS THAN ZERO. You can tell the difference between 'straight' nylon chutes and ripstop ones by looking at the weave. Ripstop will have little squares, or a pattern other than a straight fabric weave. Georger also says: ***'Early in this thread Snowmman asked about Cossey's competence. So far as I recall nobody has ever brought anything to light which 'impeached' Cossey's knowledge and competence working with (rigging, identifying, etc) people's parachutes? This versus Hayden and others ... who do not have the same 'certified' level of competence. I am sure Guru and others could speak to this issue.... If you were the FBI who would you go to for professional advice about the chutes supplied to Cooper which Cossey had had hands-on personal/professional experience...' Cossey's competence is not the issue. He was perfectly competent. The issue is whether he lied for years about owning the chute Cooper jumped with. That question, I believe, has been answered. The other issue is whether Cossey would be motivated to try and identify any chute brought to him as Cooper's. And some questions have been raised on whether he would be motivated to be honest on that. I think the answer is no, and I have already stated several reasons for saying that. He was already discounting reasons the chute could be Cooper's even BEFORE he saw it, even though he knew it had been found in what the FBI considered a prime drop zone for Cooper. He also stated he doubted he could ID it without the harness and container. (Seattle PI article) This should be telling you something. Blevins, Congratulations! In just a matter of minutes, you became an "expert" on the use of silk and nylon in parachute canopies. Robert99

Excuse me, but HOW exactly do you know it's silk? Have you seen it outside of pictures? Have you examined it? You don't know, and can't say. You say 'definitely not ripstop nylon'. Really? How did you come to that idea? You might be able to tell by looking for those little squares in blow-ups of the pictures...maybe. Then it would probably be made of ripstop nylon. It does not 'predate' WW2, either. Geez...did you even look at the DOM, which was released by the FBI? It's postwar, just barely. 377 has examined the pictures and says you can't tell a lot from them. And his experience with chutes is quite a bit more than yours. Here's a test for you, should you be allowed to examine it: Bring a Bic lighter. Or look for signs of rot. Silk, unlike nylon, is biodegradable. Blevins, I would suggest that you actually read my remarks that you quote above since they already answer your questions. To repeat, ripstop nylon had a special pattern in the fabric that was designed to - wait for it - stop rips. This pattern was plainly visible to the naked eye. I don't remember the exact history of nylon, but it was developed and manufactured (by Dupont?) and only came into widespread use during WW2. As I stated above, I don't know if plain nylon was ever used in parachute canopies. But ripstop nylon was definitely used but I don't know offhand the date it was introduced. So what fabric was used for parachute canopies pre-WW2? Does the name "Caterpillar Club", which required an emergency parachute jump for membership, suggest the fabric? Have you heard of the phrase "hit the silk"? Actually, prior to WW2 the Silkworms of America unionized and managed to snag major contracts with parachute manufacturers and underwear manufacturers. The result is history. This means that silk was almost exclusively used in the canopies of emergency parachutes. On the Bic lighter, I don't smoke. And I'll bet my experience with parachutes is quite a bit more than yours if you want to argue about. Robert99

Jo, You need to mend some fences with Bruce Smith. He is the thread's expert on the subject of the hijacking parachutes. Surely you remember that he posted some lengthy articles with pictures of those parachutes some time back. I have no idea what Cossey would say about the parachutes, assuming he said anything in the first place. On the matter of the left-hand pull, Cossey would not make that change unless requested by Hayden, or whoever owned the parachute. And for an emergency parachute, the only reason for a left-hand pull is that the owner and normal wearer of the parachute is left handed. While I have seen skydivers with right-hand pull ripcords mounted on the right side of the body, that has now apparently gone the way of ripcords in general with respect to serious skydivers. Robert99

Perhaps Blevins is not aware that parachute riggers keep a log book of their own about the emergency parachutes they pack. If Cossey had the parachute serial number by itself, he could easily check his packing log books. Blevins also does not seem to be aware of the unusual construction features of the 26 foot conical canopy that was used in NB-6 parachutes that were in use in 1971. By sheer coincidence, I personally owned an NB-6 until about the first of November 1971. If a canopy of that era was presented to me today, I could tell in less than 10 seconds if it was a POSSIBLE 26 foot conical canopy from an NB-6. Only a casual glance would be necessary to exclude it. Blevins, do you know what was unusual about the construction of the 26 foot conical canopies that were used in NB-6s? Robert99 R99... how easy would it be to distinguish silk from nylon, just by looking at it? Would you have to feel it? Use a lens? Georger, if it was silk versus ripstop nylon it would be evident by a single glance. Ripstop fabric has its own unique pattern characteristics. I personally can't state that plain nylon was ever used in parachutes. At one point in my very early days, I bought (for about 5 bucks) a 25+ year old retired seat pack just to practice ground handling of the thing in winds. The canopy was definitely not ripstop nylon and was probably silk since the parachute probably predated WW2. But I can't state for certain that I would be able to tell the difference between plain nylon and silk, even using my white silk scarf to help. Robert99

Perhaps Blevins is not aware that parachute riggers keep a log book of their own about the emergency parachutes they pack. If Cossey had the parachute serial number by itself, he could easily check his packing log books. Blevins also does not seem to be aware of the unusual construction features of the 26 foot conical canopy that was used in NB-6 parachutes that were in use in 1971. By sheer coincidence, I personally owned an NB-6 until about the first of November 1971. If a canopy of that era was presented to me today, I could tell in less than 10 seconds if it was a POSSIBLE 26 foot conical canopy from an NB-6. Only a casual glance would be necessary to exclude it. Blevins, do you know what was unusual about the construction of the 26 foot conical canopies that were used in NB-6s? Robert99

Blevins, You claim that your statements can be verified by contradictory newspaper articles? You claim that you never said the chute was Cooper's? Where is your "proof" that the FBI's investigation was sloppy and their conclusions weak? Of course you never said, or even meant to suggest, that KC was Cooper either? Blevins, stop your own whining and see if you can prove your own allegations correct. Robert99

Jo, Last night's wrong airport landing in Branson and the one a few weeks back in Wichita were both 100 percent pilot error. Each of the aircraft probably had a million dollars worth of avionics in the cockpit. Nevertheless, the pilot's didn't use that equipment. So all the major contributors to this thread were absent today? Baloney! You and Blevins have been posting at your usual 50 percent of the total posts rate. Robert99

Jo, I NEVER thought you would have the guts to make such an admission! And it applies to Blevins also! Since Jo and Blevins make about half the posts to this thread, it means that she is confessing that she and Blevins are NOT in the know! Jo, I believe most of Matt's recent posts have been in response to your posts to him. Congratulations on your honest admission in any event. Robert99

Shutter, indeed it does shed some light. And the main light is that one should ask a specialist in Flight Data Recorders what the full story is about their history. Smokin, my remark about "flight test data recorders" in the 1960s era was intended to convey that they were somewhat more advanced than the "airplane flight data recorders" we have been discussing. At least in my experience, based on memories now 50 years old, the flight test data was recorded on tape in a digital format that could be read by mainframe computers of that era. The tape "cassette" itself was a fair size thing about 2 inches thick, and maybe a foot long and wide. The end result was that the cassette could be easily changed in the recording system. After a flight test, the cassette could be removed and then hauled off to your local computer shop. In a matter of just a relatively few minutes, the computer could print out the test data from the cassette in digital form with the instrument and other corrections already applied. Then the real work of deciphering the computer print outs began. Robert99

WRONG. The early version recorded on metal foil on which overwriting was impossible. Attached is from the NTSB document Smokin provided link to. I believe this is the unit. also shows how it records and the time limits. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlY5W7be5jU I think the Sunstrand was mentioned in the document. That was interesting. ...thanks Edited to correct the name of DFR - I was listening to the next video on the Fairchild digital dfr when I posted this....

How is it that you know what FDRs all planes had in '71? I have never claimed to know what FDRs all planes had in 1971. But it is very unlikely that an airliner built in the mid-1960s, such as the NWA 727, would have an FDR with 1971 technology. As FDR technology improved, the FAA/NTSB would, from time to time, mandate that new production airliners, built after a certain date, include FDRs with the latest technology. Sometimes, the FAA/NTSB would mandate that airliners with older technology FDRs upgrade their FDRs to a newer technology level. But as the FDR technology improved, the FAA/NTSB always allowed plenty of time (measured in years) for the manufacturers and airline operators to comply. The point was to not impose a significant economic impact to the manufacturers and operators due to the upgrades. In the case of Voice Cockpit Recorders, the airline pilot's association (ALPA) legally opposed their introduction. And there was protracted litigation over the matter. So to make a long story short, an airliner built in the mid-1960s would have an early version of the FDRs and that would be one that recorded on a tape reel with eventual overwriting of the previously recorded data. Robert99

Blevins, You obviously didn't bother to read the post that I quoted and to which I was replying. Your "so what" above brings up the obvious question of why you even replied to my post in the first place? Or was it just another of your knee-jerk replies to keep up your pretense of being a "leading Cooper researcher"? Confidentiality Agreements to cover up your own demonstrated incompetence with the KC book? That's the best laugh I have had since lunch. How much of your forthcoming "Cooperland" masterpiece will you be stealing from DZ and the other posters on this thread? Just asking. Robert99

Doubtful, at least between Seattle and Portland. Cascade Mountains are well under 10,000 feet ASL in this area. The only real exceptions are Mount Rainier, Mount St Helens, and possibly Mount Adams. But those mountains are a fair distance EAST of V23. Just saying. Blevins, The post I quoted said well south of Portland. Robert99

I'd like to comment on several things mentioned above although I can't tell exactly who it is I am reply to. The NWA airliner was squawking transponder code 3100 all the way from Seattle to Reno. The requests for the airliner to "ident" were normal and used during handoffs from one controller to another. All the ident function does is cause the image of the specific aircraft to enlarge on the controller's radar so he can be certain he is looking at the image of the desired aircraft. The airliner may well have been "lost" (or outside the view of the radar station) at times since it was at a relatively low altitude (10,000 feet ASL) and there probably were mountains between the airliner and radar. Like VHF and UHF communications, the airliner has to be in line-of-sight of the radar station for it to be "seen". If the radar return from the airliner's transponder was "lost" due to terrain issues, then pressing the "ident" button on the transponder would not have any effect at all on what the radar was seeing or not seeing. In the 1971 time frame, both the Cockpit Voice Recorder and aircraft Flight Data Recorder were recorded on reels that had not more than about one hour of recording capability before it started recording over the previous data, which then was unrecoverable. The purpose of the CVR and FDR recordings were to assist in accident investigations. The FAA has come down hard on some airline pilots who pulled the circuit breakers to retain data on such things as incidents with air traffic controllers. Apparently the FAA wants the recorders to continue to run until some metal gets bent. There is little possibility that voice or aircraft recorder data was used in the hijacking "incident" investigation. Robert99

Blevins, here is a rule from Logic 101: If you cannot find Cooper in the area where he ABSOLUTELY HAS TO BE, in your opinion, then it is time to start looking for him in the area where he ABSOLUTELY CANNOT BE, in your opinion. I forget the details but, if I remember correctly, some wise man once remarked about the mentality of an individual who keeps hitting his head against a wall while expecting a different outcome from the next bang. Do you know the source of that saying? Robert99