Robert99

Within 24 hours of the disappearance, the pilot was reportedly wearing a T-shirt that said "Democracy is Dead" which was in reference to the trial of the politician he supported. So the pilot didn't give the appearance of being an Islamic terrorist. Otherwise, Iran would be the last place that he would want to go. And the rest of your story is pure speculation.

Dirt would have to be very hard packed for a successful gear down landing. 777 has a lot of weight and not a lot of tire footprint. Hercs and other rough field capable acft have lots of tires to spread the load out and avoid damaging runway surfaces. 377 I have seen B-70s land on the dry lake bed at EAFB without any hint of a problem related to the lake bed itself. I have seen about a dozen X-15 landings on the same lake bed without any difficulties. And I have seen film of additional B-70, X-15, and Space Shuttle landings there without problems. Admittedly, you won't be landing on that lake bed for quite a while after the last of the winter moisture has evaporated and things have dried out. But I'll bet all three of the above aircraft have higher footprint loads per square foot than the 777 at its normal landing weight. The C-130 was actually designed to land on relatively unimproved dirt strips.

OMG. You made a joke. And it's actually funny. Geez. (AP) -- There are three pieces of evidence that aviation safety experts say make it clear the missing Malaysia Airlines jet was taken over by someone who was knowledgeable about how the plane worked. One clue is that the plane's transponder — a signal system that identifies the plane to radar — was shut off about an hour into the flight. Another clue is that part of the Boeing 777's Aircraft Communications Addressing and Reporting System (ACARS) was shut off. The third indication is that after the transponder was turned off and civilian radar lost track of the plane, Malaysian military radar was able to continue to track the plane as it turned west. Goglia said he is very skeptical of reports the plane was flying erratically while it was being tracked by military radar, including steep ascents to very high altitudes and then sudden, rapid descents. Without a transponder signal, the ability to track planes isn't reliable at very high altitudes or with sudden shifts in altitude, he said. You know all those cell phones still ringing from relatives??? Lack of oxygen is a very effective way of shutting a whole lot of people up very quickly. It fits the available evidence of no contact.. not one. In view of the pilot's emotional situation that evening, I think he hijacked the aircraft and flew it to somewhere northwest of its intended track. Media reports today state that the pilot's wife and three kids had moved out of the house the day before the plane disappeared and that a politician, greatly admired by the pilot, had been convicted in a trial just hours before the airliner took off. The point when the transponder was turned off, just as the aircraft was being handed off to another country's controllers, is guaranteed to provide a lot of confusion. With the transponder off and with the civilian air traffic control people operating their radars with "skin paint" eliminated, it really will disappear from their screens. Military radars use "skin paint" but they might not have even been on for most of that area at that time of night. Media reports today indicate that the 777 could land on a 5000 foot runway at landing weight and there are plenty of runways that size just about everywhere. Actually, it could probably make a good landing on a dirt strip. So my question is which country ended up with another 777 recently?

Blevins, For someone who is supposedly hard at work on your screenplay about KC, you sure have a lot of free time on your hands. And I hope your assistant on the screenplay has at least some knowledge about research and fact checking. Remember, the faster you get the screenplay done, the sooner the Hollywood people will be lining up to bid on the screen rights. Then you can drive a Rolls to the events in Auburn this summer. Robert99

Blevins, To repeat, Georger got it right!

You dont know what the F^#& you are talking about! You didnt know Sluggo at all and still don't. Of course that's just my opinion! Blevins, Georger got it right! Jo Weber and I were talking about some map disks that I sent Sluggo, probably before you came along here. Since I doubt that Jo would have any use for the maps in question, I was asking her what was on the disks she had. I doubt if Sluggo sent her the disks in question, but if he did, it is perfectly okay with me. I was simply wondering what Jo was using them for. Robert99

Jo, What do you see on those disks? Describe the maps you are talking about?

You are almost correct Robert. What you saw was a Lockheed T33. Close cousin. There never were any civilian P80s. Boeing used a T33 as a chase plane for a while I believe. They aren't horribly expensive. Here's a very nice one for well under 100K. http://www.t-33.us 377 What appeared to be two T-33s accompanied the Boeing 787 on its first flight. Robert99

Said Robert, speculating. After 42 years are you still optimistic? I don't assume there is a conspiracy. When people use a phrase such as, "But the people now sitting on the tape are going to remain silent" it implies several things, but mostly a conspiracy to hide something. I am not optimistic about the case ever being "solved," nor is that something I particularly care one way or the other about. There are a number of parties though who are in the DB Cooper cottage industry who say they want it solved, but in reality don't really because it would mean the end to their little business of speculation of conspiracies books and once a year semi-fame of speaking in front of people. I am pretty much anything but that. Would the word "organization", used in the singular sense, eliminate the "conspiracy" suggestions? You are correct that the Cooper case will probably never be "solved" in the usual sense of the word. It appears to be to late for that. You speak words of great truth about the Cooper cottage industry. Robert99

Said Robert, speculating. After 42 years are you still optimistic?

Disregarding the "can't prove a negative" aspect. See Post #51868. The question should not be, "can they prove they no longer exist?" The first question should be, "can anyone prove they existed in the first place?" The Seattle ATC people and their records should be able to answer the question about their radar recording capabilities on the date of the hijacking. If they had that capability, and it was operative on the day of the hijacking, then that radar tape exists somewhere. But the people now sitting on the tape are going to remain silent. Robert99

Nobody was questioning the possible cover up of an engine out. Somebody here did imply there was something suspicious about the fact the radar tapes no longer exist. My question was essentially, "are you sure they existed in the first place?" Okay, who is implying that the "radar tapes no longer exist"? Can they actually prove that? Did the FAA radar tapes exist in the first place? Those tapes were routinely recorded and are probably on the same shelf in the FBI's "black vault" (not the "vault" on the FBI's web page) as the rest of the Cooper hijacking information. Robert99

Blevins, Do you have Bruce Smith's permission to quote such an extended passage from his web page? Did you get permission from the people who wrote what you quote? Robert99

About four or five years ago, I did do some checking on the Seattle ATC capabilities. I seem to remember they had a history booklet on that facility. That should give some idea of how and when things were updated. Now to give specific answers to your above questions: 1. Have I checked? Yes, to a certain degree. 2. Were radar tapes made and saved for the night of the hijacking? I personally do not have a conclusive answer one way or another. 3. Do you actually know? Not simply assumed. In the final analysis, no one actually "knows" anything. It is all a matter of opinion and interpretations. More detailed answers involve implied assumptions such as that the radar in the Portland/Seattle area, which was working during the flight from Portland to Seattle during the afternoon was also working during the flight south that night. Other implied assumptions are that all three engines on the 727 were running that evening. There is no actual "proof" that I have seen in the transcripts that such was the case. However, the flight crew reported engine fuel consumption regularly during the early part of the flight and the assumption is that all three engines were running based on that information. There are volumes of implied assumptions in every matter whether that is recognized by people or not. And there is not enough time in the day to "validate" all of them in each instance. Robert99

Again, the answer should be "yes". Preserving the radar tapes, plus the ATC radio tapes, and the phone conversations between controllers was normal starting very early in the radar age. But radar upgrades were done in the high traffic areas first and then the low traffic areas. I think the Seattle/Portland area traffic would qualify for an early radar update. And remember these radar updates started in the 1950s or maybe earlier in some areas. But in any event, the FAA tapes for the hijacking have departed to other locations. While I didn't specifically inquire about the radar (I don't have access to the equipment to read those tapes), I have it on good authority that the other ATC tapes have definitely "left the building". Robert99

Are you certain that was SOP in 1971 at the location in question? Would the facility have had the technical capability at that time? The short answer is "yes". The radar tapes routinely involved would be the ATC radar tapes. These would be the tapes normally used in the investigations. However, in some instances, the FAA has obtained non-ATC tapes from other agencies to help in the investigations. One such case was an accident involving an early 727 that was descending into Chicago at night over Lake Michigan from the east and ended up in the Lake. Several early 727s were lost due to high descent rates when they slowed down a bit too much. These high descent rates were caused by the T-tail configuration of the aircraft. The FAA was able to obtain information from a military radar that had unique capabilities and it aided their investigation. Robert99

Lets assume he died either on impact or later from injuries or exposure. Seems very likely that his remains and at least some gear would be discovered. It's not a jungle. The area is traveled year after year by hunters and other recreational users. If he landed alive there was no need to do a super hiding job on the parachute gear. All he needed to do was conceal it enough so it wouldn't be easily seen before he could complete his escape. He could have splashed but Georger presented a convincing analysis that showed this ending to be very unlikely. 377 377, Are you sure Tosaw and Anderson (the Flight Engineer) are still alive in 2014? I haven't seen the Georger analysis you refer to but Tosaw apparently thought/thinks otherwise. Tosaw spent a nice piece of change betting that Cooper ended up in the Columbia River. And I doubt that he seriously supports a Washoughal wash down theory. Robert99

Maybe the police could learn to do a DMV license plate search before they file the charges. Robert99

Let me add my two bits to what Shutter and Airtwardo have described although mine is almost laughable compared to theirs. One day I received a notice in the mail that my car had been cited for illegal parking in a city about 200 miles from where I lived. The notice included the time, date, car manufacturer, and a license plate number. Only the license plate number was correct. By a fluke of fate I had the oil in my car changed by the local dealer the very same day and 45 minutes after the time mentioned in the notice. And I had a time and date stamped receipt from the dealer. So I replied to the notice and included a copy of the receipt from the dealer. I also pointed out that receipt meant my car was 200 miles from the "scene of the crime" less than 45 minutes later and that it was also not produced by the manufacturer they specified. In due time, I received another notice telling me that the matter was dropped. But it cost me several hours of unnecessary work to clear up something that was probably caused by a simple misreading of a license plate number somewhere along the way. Robert99

Or it may just indicate a US citizen who had been living abroad for some time. Then again, Cooper may not even have used that word. The only thing certain in the Cooper matter is that very little is actually certain. The rest is speculation. Note the number or writers, or would be writers, who are Cooper fanatics. "Literary license" has been taken excessively by some of those people. Robert99

You can forget about the captured flying saucers and the bodies of little green men in the icebox. Back in the early 1970s, a UFO group went on a campaign to "prove" that those little green men's bodies were in a specific building (they even listed a building number) at WPAFB. They arranged to hold a UFO convention in Dayton and when they were about 1000 miles away, they were absolutely certain in their media claims. But by the time they got to Dayton, they were reluctant to even publicly discuss UFOs. Maybe Amazon remembers these events also. Robert99

Jo, Since this has become your life's work and possible swan song shouldn't you reconsider dial up and go to something better? Fast internet access abounds and can be quite inexpensive. Bruce probably thinks you already have rooms full of servers, web crawlers galore and several T 10 lines. Maybe even an encrypted hotline to your "handlers" in Langley, Capetown and Quantico. 377 Jo is just trying to keep her career as an undercover FBI agent out of the thread. But she meets all the requirements for undercover work. She claims other people are covert agents, that she hates the FBI although actually working for them, etc., etc.. Bruce is probably right about her computer equipment. Robert99

Gossett? Maybe. Here's a picture of him taken about 18 months after the hijacking, during his retirement ceremony from the Army. You decide. Joachim, You can ignore the "popular" Cooper candidates that have been named on this thread. If an when Cooper is ever identified, his name will probably be one that has never been mentioned on this thread. And there is nothing whatsoever to suggest that Blevin's candidate or Jo Weber's late husband had anything to do with the hijacking. KC and Duane are only mentioned as Cooper candidates because they are dead at this point. And that means that they can't defend themselves or correct the record. When Cooper jumped, fell, or was thrown off the stairs into a 225 MPH slipstream, the wind chill factor was about 35 degrees below zero (F or C, your choice in that range) and things would not improve very much during his free fall. And he had been exposed to "cold" temperatures for about 30 minutes before he jumped. So cold was a define problem for him. Robert99

Maybe I had better ask a question. Did anyone jump from a DC-10 in the early to mid-1970s over Indiana or Illinois?

Zero proof about his parachuting experience. It's ALL speculation. His 727 configuration commands evidence some knowledge about aircraft flight characteristics, but not necesaarily about the 727 in particular. Frustrating. But that's life in the big vortex. 377 From what I have read about McNally. it appears he might of pulled off the stairs, I don't know. that's an action for experience to speak. (you or other jumpers) the plane seems to have been going a lot faster though, so that could be the reason everything was ripped off of him. including a pair of pants. he had two pairs on.... Didn't McNally exit over the wing of a DC-10 that was doing about 300 MPH? This is the fellow in Indiana correct?