stratostar

That sleeping giant thing I was talking about, getting woke up, he is awake and moving about and kind of pissed. http://jacksonville.com/news/georgia/2012-09-04/story/navy-goes-higher-asking-relocation-st-marys-airport you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

That is one of the smaller problems in the industry, someone too bitchy picking up the phone and or dealing with customers. Seen it way too many times. Don't worry about it, find another dz or ask to speak to the owner first and tell them about your issue. you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

http://www.themercury.com.au/article/2012/09/04/358775_scalesofjustice.html "Adventure Planet Pty Ltd" sounds kind of like a copycat of some US scumbags. Quick search here on the owners name reveals this beauty... http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3636106;search_string=Richard%20Timperon%20;#3636106 you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

no mas pantalones.... you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

Not in this thread your not asking simple questions and they have little to with skydiving and more to with flying an aircraft. Good luck with that. you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

Well, see that is just the problem with mandating drug testing, it only really targets cannabis users over all and hardly if ever busts those using hard drugs like, meth, LSD, H, Coke, XTC, etc. Those drugs leave the system in 24 hrs or less, unlike herbs. So the real truth of the matter, based on 40 some years being around and watching as well as being a player in the dropzone world..... It's not the cannabis users who are not showing up to work because their all hung over. It's not the cannabis users who show up only a few hrs after closing the bar or hitting the rave or even the DZ party, reeking of booze and drag assing around looking like and smelling like, shit. Then to top it all off, they stand around bragging all about how fucked up they were and all the stupid human tricks they did last nite, in front of the TDM's /students. Or in some cases have to be woke the fuck up off a dz couch in the main office area in front of everyone. The cannabis users, went to bed at a reasonable time, got up on time, have all be up for hrs, shit, showered, shaved and been working already for the last few hours cleaning up the shit the drunks left laying around, packing the gear the drunks left unpacked because their in too big a hurry to start partying at the end of the day. The cannabis users are by far a better staff members to have around then those who drink and use real drugs. And now with 17 states, allowing for card MMJ holders and it looks like more to follow soon, here in the States and other parts of the world that now makes for a interesting problem for some people and businesses. you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

Yep, just like a lot of other places where dz's are and also like some of the airports who all try the same tactic's as St. Mary's has been. Well yes that is true, as the rules state, the airport sponsor is required to submit their reasons to the ADO, see ac 150/5190-7 (page ten) http://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/advisory_circular/150-5190-7/150_5190_7.pdf Yea, well welcome too the fucking club, there are a number of other people around the country who have been dealing with these issues for longer then TJP, your not telling those players anything new, it's all SOP right out of the play book. (big surprise there) Yea that is what they all do, and you document it and record the event FOR THE FAA & YOUR LAWYER!!! not fucking youtube! You call the ADO first after you get enough ducks in a row, have to prove your case. Where is your safety study? You say you all played by the rules, right?, Where is your FSDO published safety study then? Or if it's the economic discrimination card now in play too? Where is your letter of determination from the director? Oh that's right, starting two years ago, the FAA on a national level, halted all findings in any open part 13 or part 16 cases, while this new PLA study was being conducted and it's findings or new standards where put in place! A great deal of people have been on hold waiting for all this shit to end and a ruling issued. The FAA does NOT move fast! Well, it makes skydivers look stupid the very high ups in the FAA who, a great deal of people have dealing with for the last few years. I mean here you have Kathy posting Kevin Willis @ FAA's email addy and asking moron skydivers to email him, really.... Did you fucking clowns email him a link too the youtube video? Do you not think he will not see it, do you not think the airport sponsor will use that or show it to high up's like Mr. Willis. Or how about the Navy, do you not think they would not use such video as well? To us skydivers, the video makes you look stupid and uneducated in the art of compliance. I suspect that you are wrong, for one thing, the FAA stopped and placed a hold on all part 13 & 16 cases, an order issued by Kathy Lange, that was two years ago when they started the PLA study, no rulings till the study's findings are published, hint the public comments that ended on Monday the 27th and all those USPA published guidance in how to address that issue. I suspect your wrong based on your lack of compliance by that very public display of violations of FAR 105,23B and you should read AC 150/5190-6 http://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/advisory_circular/150-5190-6/150_5190_6.pdf Again it says, contact the ADO and the FAA has final say..... but you all handed them a golden ticket to the show via, as you say,civil disobedience. No, it's a civil law violation and now the Navy is playing the "safety & efficiency" card too. you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

If you take the time to study all the known airport access cases, one thing that stands out in those is that they all read verbatim. Like one of those call center script reading classes they all attended. All airport sponsors have an agenda when it comes to not wanting skydivers on the airport. They all use and say that same stupid shit and tactics with users and the FAA. All airport boards and sponsors act like and are the "good old boy's" club and if your not in the club you will get the "hillbillies in Deliverance" treatment. None of the actions of St. Mary's is a surprise, in fact many of their actions could have been expected and planned for had the proper actions been followed by the operator, thus giving the the dz the upper hand in any of it's on going access fight. As it turned out though, some in the skydiving camp thought it would be cute to "test" the city and while at it, thumb their nose at the very agency they are depending on to help with winning the access case.... by conducting a number of well documented via the press, violations of FAR 105.23b. That is what has doomed them, those actions alone sealed their fate, the fact the navy is pissed off now too.... well as one wise old Jap once said "I fear all we have done is awaken the sleeping giant". All the crap the city was pulling with special permits or what ever bullshit, should have been documented and calls to a lawyer and the ADO should have been on going for months, long before the cops showed up to revoke permission. Had the right steps and actions been taken by TJP owners and staff, this could have "maybe" been a victory for them pretty easy, depending on how the new PLA thing plays out. From standing on the outside and only having the public record to go by, in reading all, this is a classic example of: "how not to win your airport access case during a time of importance pending standards changes to on airport landing areas". It's not like this information is not out there and or a paid consultant for all members to seek strong advice and guidance in dealing with these kind of issues, only a fool would not heed his advice and make every effort work with in the system to fix the problem. I understand all the fucking games they play and all that bullshit about how it hurts her business... yadda yadda yadda. You know what, how's her fucking business now? If it was worth fighting for that location as much she made a stink about it , then playing by the rules of the fight should have been the plan from day one, there is that paid consultant guy who will help formulate a plan and help you with guidance.... many others have proven that advice and guidance to be reliable and successful if followed. TJP actions are unprofessional to say the least and could harm the industry on a national level. you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

Like I said earlier.... it's not a done deal, the FAA has final say. In fact she had the airport sponsor dead to right, right where she needed them to be to hang um....., UNTIL they handed it right to the airport sponsor by their statements and actions in dealing with the ongoing dispute, AND then she pissed off the NAVY on top of all the other shit. I have spent the last four years dealing with an airport access case, I talk to a trusted expert in the field that "we" pay real good money too in order to keep the sport in business, he is a very smart fella, and I can hear him yelling "Kathy,WTF are you thinking/doing", half way across the country and I'm not even on the phone with him and my windows are closed. While the FAA might side with Kathy, that is true, however pigs might fly out my ass too, wait around and see. My money is on the Navy getting it's way. you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

http://www.journaltimes.com/news/local/no-one-injured-after-small-plane-lands-in-mount-pleasant/article_e091febe-eff7-11e1-8671-001a4bcf887a.html?comment_form=true This one? you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

http://jacksonville.com/news/georgia/2012-08-25/story/st-marys-skydivers-defy-trespass-warnings-and-jump you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

FAR 105.23b states: No where does it say the airport sponsor can't revoke their permission, and note of fact, permission need not be in writing, it can be verbal. So when the city, or airport sponsor as we call them, calls up the cops and send them to your business and advises you in writing and verbally that you no longer have permission to land there and anyone who does so can go to jail for trespassing, you might want take a chill pill and not land there, while you call the ADO airport compliance people, right after you hang up from your lawyer. NOT produce violations video and post it to youtube. AC 150/5190-7 make more clear : It's not a slam dunk, but the city has a fair amount of concern to bring to the table on this operator. The Navy has a lot of clout. This could yet again work out like Yazoo city did??? It remains to be seen the out come and with additional pressing issue on a national level with airport access, this is no time for anything less then professional operations and actions, statements. you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

I never said they did, in fact I quoted (To be legal, she can fly off and land her plane all damn day long, she was told "no parachutes landing here".) Yes she can land her parachute next friken door to the airport if she has permission of the land owner and follows all FAR's, and she can take off and land her planes there all day and all nite. Landing on the airport property with out permission under far 105.23b is a violation and people can be held to account for those actions.... is the point. When the airport sponsor tells the FAA the base has told us "can't happen again", and she states she can't control if parachutist get blown off or land off, and the earlier violations make us feel it's unsafe to allow here. (see video) Airport sponsors try this shit all the time, only most times it's lame bullshit and not "hey you pissed off the Navy base, again". Tell ya what, sit back, fetch ya a cool one & some popcorn and see how this plays out. I hate to say it, but my bet is on the Navy winning out and not Kathy. She might have stood a chance had they not resorted to things like the video and then pissing off the base. As it is now the deck is stacked and not in their favor. Some of this is classic case of skydivers being their own worst enemy and not helping the cause any! you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

Pilot –one, Your right I make spelling and grammar errors in a number of my post, most the time I catch them, sometimes I don’t and the edit feature goes away after 6 hrs. Nice that you, like others here can only take away from the message some errors. It’s all good I can own up these mistakes, I’ve been making them most my life and trying really hard to become a better educated person most my adult life. I had a horrid early childhood education, I was in classes that people like you would call the “dummy class” or people like me called the learning disabilities class. Yep I’ve always a major problem with grammar, punctuation and math. Can ‘see” in my mind problems to work out it all becomes a tangled mess, when I type words, they can be spelled correct and my mind sees them spelled wrong, they say it’s called dyslexia. Years ago they didn’t have names for it, other then people like you who used all kinds of names thrown around in order belittle and to harass/bully and talk shit to all the people like me in school adding to the difficultly in the learning environment and process. I’ve learned to recognize those challenges in my every day life and have made great strides in always trying to over come them and become a more educated person, laptops and other tools help to cheat, but even then, if you can see well and your hands don’t work worth a shit, typing is a pain in the ass, I hate it, takes a long time for me to type out a post and spell check on here sucks, I don’t use it..... Besides that,if I did that you wouldn’t have anything to talk shit about. One of the cool things I learned in real estate law class, is how lawyers, if they don’t like the message, then like to attack the messenger or witnesses'. You can attack me all you like, you can poke fun of spelling and grammar errors, it’s all good, I understand why people like you have to stoop to that level. Oh and P.S., I typed this in outlook so I could have spell check just to make you happy with no spelling mistakes.... however I fucked all the punctuation as best I can, just to piss you off. you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

They have authority under FAR 105.23b to revoke permission to land a parachute on the airport property for reasons of safety concerns... They would be required to contact the ADO airport compliance specialist and submit reasonable and documented safety concerns, like on more then one time, someone landed on a navy base. Then the base people making it very clear "it can not happen again!" The FAA will side with the navy and the airport sponsor. On top of the fact, the city sent the cops out there to revoke the written permission she had under 105.23b and it's on video, the DZ responds by making a clear violation of 105,23b on video and post to fucking youtube as a big fuck you city of St. Mary's after being told by the city cop not to land there. (To be legal, she can fly off and land her plane all damn day long, she was told "no parachutes landing here".) Any reasonable person who has taken part in the FAA part 13 or part 16 process will tell you those actions don't win you any favor as a safe and legal operator with the powers that be. With all the pending FAA shit going on right now, this was some of the stupidest actions, remarks and posts by someone facing an enforcement action process. And posting and asking people to email Kevin Willis @ FAA airports..... PLEASE, talk about fucking retarded, go read Kathy's posts. If anyone from that camp did email Mr. Willis like they posted here, they did a lot of damage to their cause. you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

Thanks, Matt... But I would go far, anyone with half a brain can look at this see there were some not real smart moves taken by this operator the local support crew, sorry if that offends the cheer leading squad, but the video is what is it is. you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

Well Rich, IDK, there are many ways to get it wrong and land off, most of us here at one time have done something stupid and got it wrong. That said, as most people know I strongly believe in equal airport access for skydiving on the proper airports. And as you know, more then any other poster in this thread, how goddamn important it is to work with in the system and how screwed that system can be. It's not great, but it's what we got to work with. For the life of me I could never here our one trusted "guidance specialist" say he would have ever advised the kind of actions or statements we have seen here. The dumping of the jumpers onto the base, is just the frosting on the cake, even if it was an accident or emergency, calls into question who was flying, and one would also think, that if your in the spot light already and dancing with the devil, one might want think twice before throwing banana peels on the dance floor and then record it for America's funnest video's. I'm 100% sure that on opening day of your new place, you all had your I's dotted & T's crossed and made damn sure to get everything right with all the eyes on you, anyone in that position who didn't would be a fool. you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdBbVEVXvMA&feature=youtu.be It's all in how you handle it, you want to support a bunch of child like actions, be my guest. If feel no sorrow for those who want to help to bring down on them selfs the actions of airport boards and cities. You might want to study up on the USPA vs Yazoo City Ms. airport part 16 case and see how those retarded actions of the DZO in his dealings with the airport sponsor, lost his case to the FAA. Then you might have a tad of a clue as to how and why I have a limited to little support for Kathy's current operation and the public actions being displayed. If your going to cry foul ball, you have play by the rules of the ball game, first! you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

Kathy posts on here once in a while. you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

Reminder, Monday is the dead line for your comments. you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

Thanks for the update, hope you all been writing the feds about the PLA request comments. you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

Well couldn't see that coming.... Airport Authority issues stop and desist Call to action errant-skydivers-land-in-high-security-georgia-submarine-base skydivers-be-kept-away-kings-bay-base you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

First let me say, many longtime regular posters here will tell you I'm no big fan of many past & present BOD members and HQ staff and I've been rather clear in my "choice" words over the years on that subject. However, not all are bad people, some are fighting the good fight and have always had the members & skydivings best interest in mind in the things they do, we, as members, may not always agree... Just look at how Jan was treated over her taking a stand on the SDAZ vs Skyride case. It's clear she was in the right and USPA was lead down the wrong road, costing the membership thousands $$$$$$$$ !!!! Many of you wanted to throw her out to the wolfs, many of us stood by her and supported her, we lost and some crooks got a big pay check of our membership monies. As we sit here and watch you bitch, there is a time clock running, you state: Let me ask you, do you not think there are major pressing Government regulations/changes heading our way? Do you not believe it's a "political threat" that can and will force the shutting down of dz's? Are you aware that Deland FL. is looking at being forced to lose two LZ's there. Are you not aware there are operators who are going to be forced to move their operations in the near future, should these "political threats" happen, and it looks like they will. Have you taken the time to write the FAA as you were asked to do by not only USPA, but in a number of posts by members like me? Have you? Care to post your remarks and prove it? Also, how much are you willing to pay for a jump ticket in the near future? You are a fool if you fail to heed the recent "warning of dire political threats" and fail to take part in the process. They are very real political threats to our industry as we know it! In asking USPA, when I submitted my seven pages of comments, how many members & DZO's have taken the time to reply.... let's just say the turn out (back then) was 75% worst then the membership voting record. NOW that is way fucked up! 35,000 members and only a handful of us give enough of a shit to take part in the process..... many of you are too fucking lazy to 1. give a shit and think it won't effect you, 2. or write a damn letter and make your voices heard. But you all are the first mother fuckers to get on here and bitch all about how fucked up USPA is an how they don't do shit for you, yep always trying to get one over on you! Do you even have a clue who the real enemy is and who you should be keeping an eye on? Again did you submit your comments to the FAA & USPA on this pressing issue before us? NO? you have till the 27th, that is next Monday.... Maybe you take time out of your busy fun time this weekend @ the DZ to get as many of your fellow jumpers to take part and submit all your dz's comments? What? wouldn't want to interrupt your fun & jumping for 30 min, now would we. So when your paying 30 or 35 bucks for a jump ticket, I bet you'll be on here bitching about and saying how USPA screwed you & the members because they didn't do enough to fend off the FAA's current attack on the industry, all while failing to do your part. It is clear you have not a clue just how much HQ staff & BOD members have been doing to keep your sorry asses in the air across the country and at as cheep a cost as possible! You have no idea how many hours per week HQ staff spend dealing with the FAA in order to protect your interest in jumping out of planes in the USA. There is only one fool I see here. Get your head out of the sand, get educated, take part in the process, make your voice heard to those in charge and not just bitch on DZ.com, engage your RD and the BOD, or STFU! you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

Yes & No. It's over all a very friendly DZ, but like any dz there are a few snobs, mostly in the rw circles. Don't expect to find a lot of free flyers there, it's an RW dominate dz. There are a lot of very friendly staff there and the place is a resort, bar, pool tunnel, pro shop etc. Good thing is, E snore in just over the hill, so you can check out both places with little effort and decide what one suits your style the best. you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

And that is what make you two so awesome! Class act....