georger

Reply> Might be spelled Knudson or Knudsen?

Sorry to say anything right now. But Cooper did land within walking distance of a tower - he buried something behind the shed they stored equipment in. This is the tower East of the tracks. The tower was no longer there in 1979. The logging trail you could still see evidence of because the trees were much smaller. He had to bury the chute so he couldn't be tracked if someone found it...and not where he landed - he carried if for some ways because he needed it for shelter also. Reply> Lets examine the logging trail and shack - The problem, as Snowmman notes, is Consistency. The case in point above is the logging trail and shack where you say Duane buried the chute (and spent the night there? used it for shelter). Did the tower have a red warning light at its top? And again, its location near what railroad tracks coming from and going to where ? Or, was the logging trail an easement? I realise easements get logged after a swath cut to accommodate line towers being installed and erected? How is all of this consistent with the FBI and Sluggo's flight path? I realise you are not good with technical matters, but you have introduced this some time ago and I wish you to fill out the rest of your story. These are very important details. You need to clean this up for everyone. Georger

The Buttercup Bakery Ed Hurand?

Should you really be discussing Speakers' Corner posters in this forum? What is: "Speakers' Corner posters in this forum?" and how (or why) does it affect us here? I know nothing of this. Im not in the elite loop or whatever this "Speakers' Corner posters in this forum?" is. Please explain, but only if yours is not a bone-dried troll seeking to inflame or bu'fambu? Georger

Sorry to say anything right now. But Cooper did land within walking distance of a tower - he buried something behind the shed they stored equipment in. This is the tower East of the tracks. The tower was no longer there in 1979. The logging trail you could still see evidence of because the trees were much smaller. He had to bury the chute so he couldn't be tracked if someone found it...and not where he landed - he carried if for some ways because he needed it for shelter also. Moneys are on fire and I come to the site and find you guys talking about moneys. I had just sent an email to a friend using the expression Moneys on fire...my ears must have been burning. There are 3 books being written out there - one about Gossett and one about Christiansen (not by Gray) and the other one is a big question. Movie rights are very questionable - that is first done with an Option Contract and then it is marketed to the producers by an agent. Some companies do their own option rights - but the story can sit on the shelf for yrs with extentions. There is no need for you guys to harass me the way you do - I have not lied to you or made up any stories. Others have done that but I have not. I have been consistent for 13 yrs. How many of you could do that. No need to feel sorry for me and no I am not some pathetic individual seeking atttention. I am a determined individual and I am not mentally ill. I don't make fun of you guys and there is no reason for you to make fun of me. I do not call your theories - LIES. I do not make FUN of you. I do not DISTORT what you say - and I discuss things here and I learn things here. What I am putting to you is not ridiculous nor is any part of it a lie. If I had wanted money or a book I could have done what others have done - but I have refused to do so. Reply> So, one day ago you posted angry bemoaning just "being screwed" and suckered by people on a book and movie deals. Then you deleted that post. So, were you lying then, or now, or both? Or just mixed up? ("The Presidnet can't lie" - Nixon) That said, dont let me discourage you. You are the backbone of this Forum. Without you there would be no Forum. I actually appreciate you letting me in! Have a good day - Georger

I try not to question other people's motivations. In Jo's case I question both her sanity and her motivations, because I see her having to much enjoyment from other's people's discomfort. Most animals eat their prey. Jo just plays with hers. It's a narcissistic superiority that I find sadistic. I am having a problem with Jo asking Congress for a bailout and getting one! Her hedge fund, Cooper Industries Ltd, keeps collapsing due to poor management. Georger

Ah come on - instead of picking on my poor choice of words (remember I am the bimbo here) do your thing regarding the post below. We have a crime to solve. Snowmman I feel you are wasting your time regarding licenses,etc. Ckret is right - they did thoroughly check-out the known jumpers - those with a licenses and anyone logged in. Hence, WHY they decided his exposure was military or some form of illegal activity - such as drugs. What they did NOT look at was private planes and private jumpers doing their OWN thing. If you have a pilot and a plane with one experienced jumper - he would be able to teach this person without anyone knowing. You would need a pick-up person, but that person might just be an errand boy who has no knowledge of any rules or regulations...which by the way were ignored most of the time in rural areas. From what I found yrs ago this was not WELL regulated and the scenario I just described happend many times. MN was famous for such antics as was Florida and Mexico - lots of drug smugglers out of Casa Grande area. These individuals stole planes in the states and flew them into S. America to be sold, plus they would also pull off bringing drugs back the same way...sell the plane and make the buy and get the dope back into the states...hence two planes, but they did not want to jeopardize the legal plane so the drug carrier jumps with the booty on American soil. In the beginning of my search I was contacted by someone who remained anonomous as I had been making inquiries involving Casa Grande and ariplane thefts prior to 1971. This all came up in my search for Ed and because Duane had mentioned Casa Grande in relation to an individual whom I had asked the FBI to check - the CA man whose name I will not repeat as he was a member of the family, but they never did. I was ignored - this was yrs and yrs ago before I went public. Some of these operations came out of WA, OR UT and ID areas. To steal a plane it took a mechanic and a pilot to do this. If they were training a rookie - they also taught him how to bail if something went wrong - and to make the drug drop on the return. These guys had communication skills not used by the general public. This is where the focus should be to find - Cooper or who he was. So CKret if you are reading this perhaps you need to dig back thru the file and find this information I provided to the FBI. As I have said KISS. You guys and the FBI try to complicate things. Of course, if my scenario is correct they are all dead and gone - but, from the story I was told by Duane and if the FBI had checked out a specific individual I directed them too - maybe they would have found something over 12 yrs ago - when I first contacted them. Copyright©2008 by Jo Weber Jo, the mistake you make is thinking YOU are important. The rest of the world is laughing or trying to avoid you, trying to work around you, or without you. You are living a lie here. The emotional part of your brain is running the rational part of your brain. If this is your intent and you like being Entertainment for the masses, that's your choice. Maybe there is a buck in it for you. The rest of us have better things to do. Georger.

If you look at my "history" of this you'll see it goes in cycles. I really should go back to just ignoring her, which I did for a long time. But the outright LIE about not attacking Ckret got my goat. I also wonder if not responding to her many preposrerous claims makes her think people believe them, and encourages her? The "jumping on her" is mainly an attempt to try make her see some sense but I guess I should realise it's futile. I really do feel sorry for her and think she should get on with her life rather than spending the rest of it caught up in this delusion, but I guess it's going to take a lot more than pointing out her many inconsistencies in an internet forum to do that. btw: if she could properly counter any of the points, she probably wouldn't see it as ganging up on her either ..in fact if she could properly back up her argument a lot of people here, myself included and from what Ckret and others have said them too, would happily encourage & support her (as I did in fact do way back when, before I realised that she had basically nothing but flights of fancy). She has a Duane agenda, I think most of the rest of us just want to know who it was - Duane, whoever, doesn't matter as long as we see some actual evidence. Reply> Remember when Hadden explains you have to bend the images up and connect them to get the primer code - in Contact. Because the Vegans see and think in 3 dimensions or more? This is a similar case. You have to add two more dimensions. Good luck - G.

Or the CBS video of Oswald being brought out - room full of suits. My thought exactly.

I don't understand. First Jo wants to see the FBI files for "truth" Then she says she knows something about the FBI file. Does anyone even know if Jo is woman or a man? Is she just jerking us around? Do I have to hack into her machine too? Now there is no truth to the rumor that a log file with IP addresses of everyone lurking at DZ.com was accidently dumped in the recycle bin, and the addresses extracted thru the search bug feature I noted, over a period of 1000 hours using a rack of 50 1U servers. Because if you had those ip addresses, and knew someone in Estonia with no morals, and if there were any bugs in the Windows operating system, then there'd be a lot of new data for sale! Jo could be a disinformation effort, or is it: dysinformation. Im really confused about my dysim vs dissiym. All Binyaniym! The reason I say this is the "bot" keeps generating the same message, almost verbatum. If I say "cat" it says "meow". If I say "Ckret" it says "damned FBI cant find its own ass and all liars". If I said "Santa Claus" what do you 'spose it would come back with: "Ckret has claws." ? Hmmm. Going to have to think about that and do a few Turing calculations. Must be an error in Church, or even Lobochevits! Nope its a Madison error! We are screwed. This damned Bot cant resolve the three-space problem. Clear the decks. Florida, if thats really where the bot is is about to sink!

QuoteOkay I have some information for discussion. Repeatedly people have implied the C-9 28' in a NB-6 was some kind of death pull for a novice. That it was like some "special deal" Cossey did. I already provided info that suggests the right hand outboard pull may have been not just a "Cossey special"...So I got curious about the C-9 in a NB-6. I've repeatedly found NB-6's for sale on ebay with 28' canopies. That's when I realized we have to understand the year and manufacturer also. Reply> when you posted Paracor ads I also looked around and found many NB6's with 28' canopies, which puzzled me. Didnt report it here but it seemed odd. Cossey seemed to make it seem special? By example for both, the NB-6 on Sluggo's site appears to be of a 1995 vintage....I think it matches a 1995 manufactured NB-6 (for instance the purple webbing loops are a giveaway...colored webbing like that is fairly modern) So Sluggo's NB-6 is not what Cooper's NB-6 looked like. This is important for estimating, say, whether the chest reserve hooks could be clipped on the harness somehow. I've got a collection now of photos of NB8's (mostly) from 1959 etc. Not many, but some. But it makes me believe early NB-6 models had lighter weight webbing on the straps. If I see a couple of NB-6's on ebay with 28' canopies, what does that mean? Are they modern canopies with lighter weight nylon (less volume)? What years were people talking about when they were going on about hard pull before anyhow? Isn't this whole "hard pull" discussion pretty absent of hard facts? Reply> If I am correct it was Cossey who started the "hard pull" story. Without that it never would have come up. Somebody (here? earlier this year) who knew Cossey came back to explain what hard pull meant. I distinctly remember him being surprised Cossey would pack a chute in this manner excpt for Cossey's own personal use (which I gather is exactly what Cossey said the chute for for), but the person went on to explain hard pull meant the out and up two step operation..... Everything about hard pull has followed from Cossey's original citation for his NB6 chute given Cooper. (Cossey has reportedly said more about this whole episode but I will not repeat what Ive heard or read, because its second hand...) G.

Why in the Hell would he want to prove Duane was Cooper he has his own suspect. As for talk show circuits and such - I have absolutely no interest. You know that I turned down a recent offer - I refused to particpate other than to provide information. As for hiding evidence - seems like the FBI is the one keeping evidence secret. The night clerk went to the FBI - we cannot make the FBI investigate or search for the registration. Why go on a TV program if the FBI only intends discredit you in the public eye. You posted this above at 7:04. At 6:43 you said: "I have nothing more to say regarding the FBI file or Carr." Duhhhhhhhhhhh. How many Jo's does it take to change a light bulb?

Dont you just love that word dys-functional. First saw it in print in the 1980's. Either People's Magazine or some Time article on terrorism. Why dys- and not dis- ? Must be something in Olde Englisch that before a fricative "f" any negation "eithe requireth" "y" as in whye? Y's arent vowels exactly. So you can't actual negate a relational non-mass noun beginning in a fricative. ? Hmmmm. This is all for Sluggo's benefit!

I have nothing more to say regarding the FBI file or Carr. By actual count this is the 57th time you have said this. Why is this time any more credible than the last 56 times? I see a pattern here. G.

Nobody has positively ruled Duane out, Reply> I have. Nobody in an iron lung and on dialysis hijacks an aeroplane, and survives the drop ?

woops. He has to look like Dan Cooper, the comic book figure.

I see him more like Eric the Red, in fur lined mukluks. Liked knives and axes. Good at rowing.

Geeze Snowman: it was not big deal - no details - I had NEVER met the man prior to that time. We were not alone very long at all and the man was sick. The brief conversation about his knowing Duane from the past was very brief and my total time with a stranger was all of 15 or 20 minutes if that long. My primary focus was the heath of the man and what I could do to help him. I know the picture you are talking about and the reason I posted it was to find out if someone knew where it was taken - I don't know. It was just something in his belonging...could be that the ex sent it to me -- my memory is failing me. Duane was a strong man - but as for hiking (during the time I knew him that consisted or our visits to parks up into the foothills around Denver and Ft. Collins. We would go to places like Vail and Winter Park, CO. We walked a lot, but not as a sport or for exercise. Duane was secretive - I knew little to nothing about his past...over 17 yrs somethings do come out, but usually our life was built on what we had together. I did not want to make the same kind of mistake my parents made - judging others by their past and their family. The major problem with my parents is that they were judgemental - if you were not born in the right place and at the right time or to the right parents - you were Trash...there were young men who passed thru my life that I was NOT allowed to speak with much less date. Now DO YOU understand WHY I never dwell on the past of others...and I just let it be. When I was engaged to my 1st husband I wanted stop the marriage - I even tried to enlist but I was too young (you had to be 21 in 1960) - if I had been able to get money - I would have ran away. When I met Duane - I DID NOT question his background. When my parents met him we had been married for several yrs. I never knew what my father thought of him. I do know that a relative who met him during my parents 50th anniversary - went back to my home state and told someone that I had married Mafia. They had judged Duane by his tattoos and whatever others use to judge people (they did not know the man). I make NO judgements - it is how that person makes me feel and how they treat me...I do not care if they are rich or poor or a disabled, educated or uneducated. If someone is meticulous in their appearance and surrounding, has pride in themselves, strives to do the best they can to improve themselves and understands perception of self - do NOT judge them by past mistakes. We all have some prejudices and I have mine. As I have gotten older and the Cooper thing has taken away from the quality of my life and caused controversary - I have become judgemental regarding others and I no long withhold those judgements. I am old enough to show anger and to speak my piece. What I do not do is JUDGE someone by their past, but by their current actions. Reply? Maybe Ed was Cooper. Ed stole John Collins because he knew Duane had used it. Will the hotel clerk confirm Ed as Collins? Then he confides to Duane to warn him, time passes, Duane begins checking up on the Cooper case to see what its all about, then at the end luny from drugs and kidney toxins Duane confesses HE is Cooper, to end it all once and forever. ???

why would you have a secret conversation with Ed while Duane was alive, that involved a conversation about jumping? What was the context? Snowmman: Why do I have to repeat this story and why is everything I say taken out of context? This was not a "SECRET" conversation and it was not about "JUMPING". Ed was ill while we were in Denver and he asked Duane to come over and run an errand for him to get his medication. I stayed with Ed while Duane went to the drug store. It was a general conversation. He asked me where I was from and "just stuff". Toward the end of this conversation I asked him how long he had known Duane and where he knew him from. Simpy ordinary questions just general conversation. I had never met Ed prior to that time. He told me that he knew Duane from way back in WA, OR and ID. He mentioned Helicopters and planes - he was a pilot or mechanic. He also said something about Alaska and Vancouver. I told him I didn't know Duane had ever lived there. He immediately stated - that he supposed Duane had never told me about that part of his life and he did not realize I did not know. He asked me not to mention this to Duane - I would suppose thinking Duane would be upset. I kept my word and did not mention it to Duane and over time I forgot about it. Ed was very adamant about my not sharing our conversation with Duane. What I have just said is all he said. The conversation was interupted as Duane was back with the medication...the drug store was just on the corner of the block so what time I spent with Ed alone was about 15-20 minutes. Reply: Alas, now we have the Reluctant Hijacker, and personal ID. thief. Cooper didn't mean to do it. It was beyond his control. It was all an accident! He gave all the money to charity and wrote Max Gunther to arrange it. But kept a small wad he had forgot, which he and Jo send down the Columbia "wrapped in one rubber band Jo provided". Makes sense.

But on the bright side!: To Althea. From Prison. "Stone walls do not a prison make, Nor iron bars a cage; Minds innocent and quiet take That for an hermitage; If I have freedom in my love And in my soul am free, Angels alone, that soar above, Enjoy such liberty." Richard Lovelace, written in prison (edit) or: "To DBC thread. From the banned Zing" :) and: No man is an island entire of itself But a piece of the continent and A part of the maine. If a clod be washed way by the sea Europe is the less As well as if a manor of thy friends or of thine own were Every man's death diminishes me because I am involved in Mankind. Therefore, Never send to know for whom the bell tolls. The bell toll for thee. (robt dunne from memory)

What you have just described is how I would imagine one lives within the confines of a prison to stay out of trouble. Don't toot your horn, keep to your tasks, be polite - a means to an end - get out of prison. Come Jo. You dont have to imagine, You know. There many kinds of prisons. ... G.

Disagree. He said he had a grudge, but I don't recall anything reporting him as saying that was the main reason for the hijack? Cannot prove that it was his primary motive rather than the money on what we know. Read Ckret's post above. Unless I misread it, Tina sked C why he was hijacking the plane. He said a grudge, not against the airlines, just a grudge. He didn't elaborate. So if Cooper was speaking truthfully, his primary motive was a grudge. You know something better? G.

Let Zing back.... Im still intrigued by night jumps at dusk. I still think there is an advantage to it - lack of depth perception in low light so jumping doesn't look as threatening. what do you think? G.

I was surprised that Ckret repeatedly said that if the grudge was primary, Cooper would have stated it when he got the microphone. I'm no shrink, but isn't that a narrow view of people with grudges? Cooper, the quiet guy seemed like the slow-burner type. He was probably used to internalizing crap? If Cooper did have a grudge (he said he did) and he was trying to not get caught, then airing his grudge would have been stupid as it would have disclosed something about himself. He seemed consistent in not disclosing much about himself, so why would he air his grudge? I'm guessing that he had a basket of grudges...in his mind layered in complexity. So that maybe also it just wasn't worth trying to explain it all to Tina. After all, what was she going to fix about any grudge? I'm just musing about why the grudge is expected to be aired. Just lashing out may have been sufficient for Cooper? In addition to needing the money. (edit) In fact, there's no grudge that a hijack addresses in any rational way. Maybe he was mentally both rational and irrational. Schizophrenic sort of. Reply> I agree with everything you say above. Without knowing the man its difficult to generalise - you would almost certainly be wrong somewhere. He's too old to have a single grudge, in all likelihood. I wouldn't describe him as schizoid at all. He's under real stress but stayed with the tasks at hand and finished his mission. I dont agree with Ckret he would have stated his grudge when he had the microphone. I am sure he didn't want any microphone. I don't think he was enjoying anything. I think this was merely a means to an end, in his mind. We don't know who this guy was before the event or anything about him afterwards. Georger

Reply> Nice post. Thanks! I for one appreciate the common sense approach. Georger