georger

I'm pretty sure we know Cooper didn't write on the ticket? (that was the ticket agent) There are no samples of Cooper's writing. We also don't know if the note was handwritten or typed. There are some claims in some articles, but Ckret has never confirmed? I misspoke - you're right. Im pretty ^%&$^%&$#'ed up right now due to stress. Have to getback in the boatr before the Weber Effect takesme out for good - Georger

Yes, people jump with goggles over their glasses. I should add one of the oldtimers (can't remember who it was) posted here though that skydiving goggles were not widely available at the time - people used other types and I am not sure how useful those would have been as over-glasses goggles. If you wear contact lenses, and I would imagine this was exacerbated with hard ones, the chances of losing one or both lenses without goggles is high. (People have managed to not lose them, but if you as Cooper wore contacts you surely wouldn't want to take the chance.) Anyhow Cooper could easily have had a pair of goggles somewhere, in an inside suit pocket or in his mysterious paper bag.

Where are you getting that Cooper had prescription glasses? What's your source? Just a guess? Georger

Your thoughts are all good Tom. I thought they should have been obvious, and was surprised the FBI didn't highlight probable eyesight issues in their profile. If Cooper was 45 and still able to see well without glasses, does that tell us something about him as he ages? At the very least, I would think the FBI would say "we're probably looking for someone who didn't need glasses at 45" That would help narrow the suspect pool also? For instance Hahneman did wear glasses? I wonder if he had them on during the hijack. Probably yes. That probably helped in id'ing him? All the composites with the wraparound sunglasses probably steered people into thinking of Cooper as a glasses guy. They should have just put the composite out with no glasses. Did they think he was wearing sunglasses all the time? If sunglasses were a disguise (who knows) why show the disguise? Rply> Uh, you put posters out that show the subject as he appeared at the crime, or as the public is liable to encounter him? Just a guess.

Your thoughts are all good Tom. I thought they should have been obvious, and was surprised the FBI didn't highlight probable eyesight issues in their profile. If Cooper was 45 and still able to see well without glasses, does that tell us something about him as he ages? At the very least, I would think the FBI would say "we're probably looking for someone who didn't need glasses at 45" That would help narrow the suspect pool also? Reply> I have wondered must paratroopers pass a vision test? Hobby skyjumpers? (Pilots we know about). I would assume far sighted passes? As Tom has pointed out, what appears at stake is a far sighted ID of Tacoma, then Vancouver and Portland coming up, also to be able to function on the ground looking out windows. He was also looking at magazines (reading them with and without glasses on?). There is no evidence his sunglasses were prescription glasses. Maybe he bypassed the instructions cards because he could not read them? There are countless enumerations. His writing on the ticket does not appear abnormal in size or slant or structure, in fact very simple and without telltale visual issues. The more we examine Duane the more things keep popping up which eliminate him, very basic facts of physiology. PKD, diabetes, his very high astuteness and intellect according to Jo, his basic biometrics, (his dna - FBI), his prison record and the fact he is in hiding which could have easily lead to detection given the right triggers, and now his vision. It is beginning to look like Duane is the perfect non-Cooper candidate. If that is true then no wonder the very strong Weber Effect ... the Weber Effect must be quite strong to give the illusion of veracity. It must look very good to shield the obvious. Make no mistake about this, and I am sure by this time the FBI has taken note: Any real history of DB Cooper must now also include Jo Weber because she has become a significant part of the Cooper record, perhaps even surpassing the actual story for some. No record of the Coopr case is complete without mentioning Jo and Duane Weber. Jo Weber has single-handedly seen to that, and Himmeslbach let her through the door, as it were. The Weber Effect encapsulates this entire phenominon. Georger

Snow, are we the lucky ones or what? The most popular forum and the best women... right here. After the BASE jumpers killed the appeal of ordinary skydiving I have had to rely increasingly on literary means to impress women. Smart women are always the best, and they are always interested in a clever quote and commentary about Conrad, Faulkner or Heller. I let Oprah handle Joan Dideon and Truman Capote. 377 you have women on the brain! 377 Effect.

And Apocalypse Now is based on Heart of Darkness by Joseph Conrad (hello Snow

Quotegeorger said: "I am NOT an FBI agent. I am NOT a CIA agent. Never have been and never will be." Yeah, and you never oogle the stewardesses either. :) I assumed you were clean till you made the denials. Now if you retract the denials, and say you were just kidding when you denied it, then I'll know you're telling the truth and you're not FBI. You know how you talked about vindication coming from others? Well, I think the reality is you're only not FBI when Jo says you're not FBI. "If I say it's safe to surf this beach, Captain, then it's safe to surf this beach!" -skyjack71, 2008[/reply and I love the smell of napalm in the morning - It smells like - - - victory. ]

Can someone tranlate Jo's above into English?

SO, Why did it take so long for you to state that - it is not the same as I have been told, but sounds logical. Bears checking out. ================== Duane did not do the Shop until he went out out on disability in 1989. He sold Inusrance from the time I met him in 1977 until 1988. He was selling insurance as John Collins and after he got out of Jefferson Pen in 1969 as Duane Weber - still don't understand how he ever got the license...state law has always been - ex-cons cannot be licensed. He wasn't INVESTIGATIING anyone and I will state again - I did not ask or pry into his past. If I did ask a question he gave an answer and quickly made a diversion to another subject - very astute at doing this. You have described Duane before as being very astute, whatever "astute is in your book. More Weber Effect. I tend to think you keep saying this to make Duane and yourself look astute, whether Duane was or not. So the obvious question is: was Duane too astute to be DB Cooper, if Duane was as astute as you say? Why would a guy that has successfully ripped off $200k in some grudge, go sell insurance? He is insurance, from what you say! So astute that he can survive and prosper on a rock. Aside from the obvious physical missmatch, I think you have made Duane too astute to be DB Cooper. You seem to be tailoring your story to Sluggo's interpretation of DB Cooper - that Cooper was an engineer and student of Chuck Yeager, or something like that. No doubt Duane had a photographic memory, and perfect pitch? Dyslexia? Darn Toot'n! Georger

I SCREAMED this at the FBI in 1997 and ever since - but I didn't know where to find the proof - this forum found the proof - at least I have been vindicated in that PART by this forum. More Weber Effect. All you have been vindicated of is "saying you are vindicated" which is not the same as being vindicated, but only one more assertion on your part you have been vindicated ... more Weber Effect. Vindication is something you cannot give yourself. Others must bestow it. Once people get used to the Weber Effect they will make a judgement and pronounce vindication, as it is only someone other than YOU who can crown yourself with it. Its all part of the Weber Effect. Im going to put up a short article about the Weber Effect on Wikipedia. Please consult that article when you need reorientation. And for the last damnd time, out of my own mouth (not Tom Kaye's mouth) this time: I am NOT an FBI agent. I am NOT a CIA agent. Never have been and never will be. But I have been to Chicago to see the elephant! Damned amazing it was. Georger

You made your dediuctions on past posts but somethings you couldn't know. Such as when Georger mentions something I never spoke about in this forum or anywhere else - ONLY to Himmelsbach. So you can add to that - he knows Himmelsbach? Georger is the one who stated the Salt Lake City man as being CIA - not me. The man sure gets around right? Note my avatar changed again - I DID NOT want to change it and I usually don't do anything I am told to do. Don't even try to analyze that Snowmman. I had to take the avatar down - but everyone got a GOOD look at it. I didnt say the subject you photographed at Salt Lake City was CIA. You suggsted that. I said he might be a young Mormon Pioneer; sleeve patch and chevron that applies are attached. Your new avatar is attached in a new comparison. Note the height and angle of foreheads as well as other features. Georger

And how would the judicial system deal with the flood of people that would simply claim to have been DB Cooper in order to become rich or go down in history? How would they deal with the delusional ones living out a fantasy life that might actually think they are DB Cooper? [Or those that peddle the notion they know who DB Cooper was?] ---------------------------------------------------- In that regard it might be useful to coin a new term: The Weber Effect. One can formulate such an effect easily, from personal experience in this forum and elsewhere over the years. Moreover, the effect has concrete linkage in the work of Max Weber (German sociologist) but also through the unit of quantum magnetic flux known as the Weber. And a particle may be involved. (This could be a Nobel Prize!) The Weber Particle and the Weber Effect. We know an ultra light gas is involved, having the property of being somewhere and nowhere all at once. We suspect anti mass particles which could form an atom, of less mass than the hydrogen atom for periods lasting up to a millisecond or longer, long enough to have an effect! Space-time would be warped inversely. All clocks would either cease to move or syncopate locked in a singular instant of space-time. The implications of course are profound for anyone entering such a field and we now believe these fields roam our universe at will. There is where the work of Max Weber takes over in explaining subsequent behavioral soliloquies on the molecular level. Anyone walking into the Weber Effect is instantly captured and diverted. Previously rational people become irrational. Strange preoccupations develop in spite of counter evidence to the contrary at the very edge of the Weber Field. Space-time and all symmetrical reality within the Weber Field are locked inescapably, until such time as the field collapses, and the field must collapse to regenerate. Thus, through the Cooperology, a new primary effect in nature has been documented. The Weber Effect. Georger

also, In 2003 Tosaw launched another search: Evidently Dick Tosaw played football with Kinnick, and that's how Tosaw (Dick's brother) found out about the story, growing up. Don't know what happened with this story. Looks like they may have "let it be?" Kinnick plane rescue plans abandoned The Gazette - Feb 9, 2004 Q: What has become of the effort to raise the plane of Nile Kinnick, ... Tosaw said Kinnick was a strong swimmer, so it's a bit strange that he didn't ... Kinnick's roommate: Let the wreckage be The Gazette - Feb 9, 2003 Nile Kinnick would not have wanted his crashed Naval fighter plane ... Tosaw will seek Venezuela's permission to lift the wreckage from 100 feet of water ... Related web pages http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nile_Kinnick http://media.www.dailyiowan.com/media/storage/paper599/news/2003/01/28/Metro/Ui.Alumnus.Says.Hes.Found.Kinnicks.Plane-353380.shtml After searching the Caribbean for a week, Richard Tosaw says he's found the wreckage of Nile Kinnick's fighter plane. The UI alumnus returned to his home in California on Monday from Port of Spain, Trinidad, confident that one day, he'll truck the 60-year-old Grumman Hellcat to the UI. The first step in realizing that longtime dream is gaining permission from the Venezuelan government to salvage the plane, which lies within five miles of the South American country's territorial waters. "I've never done something like this before, and I know that bureaucrats can delay work," said the 77-year-old former attorney. "I need someone who can get a decision made. But other than that, I don't foresee too many problems because the government won't care about the plane too much." Kinnick, a Hawkeye who was awarded Iowa's first and -- so far -- only Heisman Trophy in 1939, died when his plane crashed in the Gulf of Paria during a practice flight in 1943. The UI law student was 24. Tosaw predicted that his hired salvage expert, Martin Woodward, would use an underwater flotation device similar to a balloon that will drag the plane up 101 feet from the sea floor. Tosaw said he will personally foot the bill for transporting the remains of the craft, which remains buried under 10 feet of sand, back to the UI because it is a sentimental expedition for him. "It'll just be like transporting a car," he said. Tosaw's immediate plan is to contact the Venezuelan Embassy to obtain permission to recover the plane. He has yet to determine how much time it would take to complete the excavation. The expedition has so far cost him $10,000. Steve Parrott, the university's director of University Relations, said he was unclear about the procedure for accepting donations and gifts of such a nature. The wreckage was located using a global-positioning system by cross-checking coordinates Tosaw procured from the Navy ship USS Lexington. He initially pursued the search more than 10 years ago but abandoned the project because he thought that salt water had corroded the aluminum plane, rendering it worthless. Tosaw is aware that some critics find his effort disrespectful to Kinnick, likening it to digging up his grave. According to information Tosaw received from the Navy, Kinnick might have been killed instantly by the crash's impact. It is unknown if any of his remains will be recoverable. "It's been almost 60 years since his death. He has no surviving relatives except a distant cousin who didn't mind what I was doing when I told him about it," Tosaw said. "Of course, it would be a different story if he had died recently." Thats fundamentally correct, so far as I know it. Ive talked to Tosaw's secretary, at length, but never to Tosaw. George

Thanks.

I really didn't know much about the backgrounds or first jump dates of the older more experienced jumpers at the CPC. I knew Doug Hansmann was from WA but didn't know about any of the others. Thom Lyons has written a lot about early jumping on the west coast and has posted it on his website. He might be able to answer those questions better than I can. The Cooper story created a huge buzz in the skydiving community. The consensus was that he HAD to be a jumper and it was just a matter of figuring out which one. Speculation ran wild and many names were thrown around. There was almost a hope that Cooper was a skydiver as it would be humiliating for something so wild and cool to have been successfully executed by a mere whuffo. As far as I know none of my cohorts were contacted by the FBI. I am not sure whether they were doing much investigation in CA. 377 77, you dont have to respond if you dont want to but do you know Mr Tosaw? George

On the other hand, there is another area open to investigation which anyone could take on. That is the area of Biometrics, which I tried to introduce in this forum. Deep credentials and laboratory hardware are not required to do meaningful biometric work. Simple photographs can suffice and still lead to meaningful results: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biometrics It is through a simple biometric approach that many Cooper candidates have been eliminated to date, including Duane Weber. The central fact is, cranial proportions and ear features remain essentially static once a body reaches adulthood. These two basic factors can eliminate 95% of all candidates, as I tried unsuccessfully to show with Weber's ears and cranial structure, here. In fact, ear structure and type are the most static facial feature over time. Duane Weber's ears fit into a different catagory vs any ears shown on any D Cooper rendering. The proportion of ear ear size and its placement on the cranium is totally different for Weber than it is on any Cooper rendering. The same analysis can be done for Gosset, McCoy, Christiansen, and any other candidate. Biometric comparisons are easy to make. There is even software available, but a kid with photos and a ruler and a compass and a monitor can also make the basic evaluation. Maybe I will develop a game and make some money with this! So, what we need here, evidently, is some smart 13 year old who can apply some very basic tests and provide unimpeachable answers and possibly break new ground. This is basic science. The only question is, do we use it or not. Georger ps* Basic ruler and arithmetic techniques can be found in the EB Cooper-White "Primer for Arithmetic and Basic Geometry", 1895, 2nd edition by his niece Georgia Cooper, 1922. There. You have a clue as to who I am and what my credentials are! Tom can stop speculating about my connections because he doesnt even know what he's talking about.

I will add a few things just for context. Im just a retired guy who thought maybe a small panel of scientifically trained people could do some analysis on the Cooper issue and that will be the extent of this work, unless someone takes it further. That is all I have planned and anyone else is welcome to do something more if they can. Georger

Now you are sounding like JO. Think what you will. Georger

No she doesnt if you think about it. A step for one is a giant leap across a casm for another. Georger

Check out ROTC uniforms and regulations , National Guard Regulations and obtain the administation directory of anyone working in the Buerea of Church, Administration Offices of the LDS office in 1979 - including all other residents - Literature - and Information. Other offices not associated with the Church in 1979 were housed there - such as ROTC recruiting and representatives of certain College programs. Reply> There were official church programs which required a coat jacket with emblem or insignia. One of those (in a shared office space in that bldg) were the Mormon Pioneers - but I wont take the time to find the patch on the net. You can do that if it suits you. The use of chevrons along with that patch denoted level or grade of the wearer. That's just one example of the insignias that were on coats walking around in that building. Some were more conspicuous than others. Some officials wore no insignia at all. Satisfied? Duane spent 24 yrs hiding his past and he was very good at it. I expect his freedon and his life depended on it. Those who suspected he was Cooper knew him only as John Collins and never knew his real name... they could never say one word because it would have involved them in something dark and ugly. The other day I was told what a horrible wicked and mean man Weber was by someone who once knew him. I only had glimpses of that man and those were fleeting, accept for a few wks in 1990. What changed him? He survived what he thought was going to be the end of his life - If he was found out it meant more than just prison - it was a certain death. Reply> But you and Duane took trips, investigated people and things publically, Duane operating an antiques business publically .... So which is it? Under cover or public? Or both? Im sure you will have an explanation which accommodates both stories. On the other hand, if you are tired of all this, and Im sure you must be, I realise now you are simply a misunderstood person, simple in your aspect and merely searching for the truth. There is nothing to be gained by looking through a glass darkling. Georger

NOT ME - that is what you WANT: Why DON'T you use the good composites rather than the one the FBI promoted that the witnesses said did NOT look like Cooper. That is why Cooper got away for all of these yrs - that old Bing Crosby Composite. composit posted below - remember the old avatar. There is nothing I can say you understand. Georger

QuoteJo, you are the one who has gone off the edge in that response - Reply> What Jo is getting at, is THESE (attached) are the same guy (at any age). I mean we CAN measure refractive index, spherical sagitta, diopter, axial vs off axis (foveal vs afoveal) correction, angular displacement through a lens, and other optial properties, but the more basic question is: are these two guys the same guy? You dont need a diploma to know that! To me, its like asking if a Chevy is a Ford is a Spectrophotodensitometer when you need is transporation to the nearest tree. Georger

Im not certain who found the money. There were two children playing together, with adults present. I think the Judge's ruling was in error. The money should have been kept together as a unit and protected as a unit, to preserve its forensic value until such time as the case were ever closed. Georger

add in diabetic and PKD. Georger