georger

Then again, steerable canopy + some ability to see hazards + stress could well = object fixation... particularly if not that experienced. You cant discount the reduced depth-distance perception at night. Its an inevitable part of night vision, skilled parachutist or not. In fact it is one of the items that would select between skilled vs. not skilled. Add to this foggy, misty, windy conditions that night which has not been mentioned; if that was the case. (One report given months ago mentioned 5000 ft visibility at Vancouver?) Maybe Snow knows. G.

======================== ======================== Obsession, speculation or the truth To ALL: Put aside all of your knowledge (education and life experiences) aside for a few moments. Pretend it was your Father who confessed to your mother and to you. Pretend he had been evasive about his past (you were all of 16 at the time) and you and your mother knew little or nothing about his life other than the 17 yrs she was married to him…what your mother did know about the man was what I knew about Duane Weber. Yes, I do more than speculation, because it is the only thing that makes sense.

Im surprised nobody has mentioned chutes filling wth water and floating or billowing to the surface in the current if caught in water that isnt too deep? You mentioned using chutes as sea anchors... or drift anchors. G.

Quote16% is low, far more probable that he landed dry than wet. Add steerable canopy and some ability to see hazards in time to avoid them, you are probably at 5%. did I miss a post? 16% of what? G

bdd odds? things could have been very bad, probablity wise? (Hayden Island bad odds for what? What are you talking about or saying? Are you talking about Cooper's survival, or odds for an object going to T Bar, ..... not a mind reader. G

This line began with Steve1 making his post - go back and read it. I answered asking Steve1 if he knew how debris got taken to Tina Bar, the route. Now you jump in and start Snowblowing. I cannot answer your questions because obviously I am asking the same questions, originally! If you have the answers why not post them? You keep talking about my THEORY. What theory? I say "it seems to me" things behind Catapillar Island have an easy route to spread across Tina Bar IF water levels rise in the channel behind Catapillar Island and there is flow in the direction of Tina Bar straight ahead. It seems like a simple association to me. But I dont know. That is why I posted - to explore it. If you say no then obvious it cannot be! So prove it. Perhaps a few defintiions are in order to clear Snow's blizzard up: Laminar flow Laminar flow generally happens when dealing with small pipes and low flow velocities. Laminar flow can be regarded as a series of liquid cylinders in the pipe, where the innermost parts flow the fastest, and the cylinder touching the pipe isn't moving at all. Shear stress depends almost only on the viscosity - μ - and is independent of density - ρ. Turbulent flow In turbulent flow vortices, eddies and wakes make the flow unpredictable. Turbulent flow happens in general at high flow rates and with larger pipes. Shear stress for turbulent flow is a function of the density - ρ. Transitional flow Transitional flow is a mixture of laminar and turbulent flow, with turbulence in the center of the pipe, and laminar flow near the edges. Each of these flows behave in different manners in terms of their frictional energy loss while flowing, and have different equations that predict their behavior. Turbulent or laminar flow is determined by the dimensionless Reynolds Number. Reynolds Number The Reynolds number is important in analyzing any type of flow when there is substantial velocity gradient (i.e. shear.) It indicates the relative significance of the viscous effect compared to the inertia effect. The Reynolds number is proportional to inertial force divided by viscous force. The flow is * laminar when Re < 2300 * transient when 2300 < Re < 4000 * turbulent when 4000 < Re G.

hmm, never thought about it that way but you have a really good point. Oh Snowmman, you mythbuster. 377 aint she great!

no it isn't. quote the year you're thinking about. Pics are available. Shoreline changes, especially with water level. You post the years you have in mind, if you have it solved? The basic flow patterns are the same for any set of years depending on flood scenario. Lets say '77. See map attached. Its far easier for an object to move along red line than any other line. Anything moving in the main channel tends to stay there due to flow rate (high especially during hi water)? Also, your statements about the behavior of floating trash and shorelines and current flows, seems purely speculative. It is speculative. Duhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

One central question I have is where does the bulk of debris found at Tina Bar come from - what is its path via the Columbia? Maybe you can answer this because I dont find this discussed in any report? I don't see that anything flowing through the main channel before or near Tina Bar has a very good chance of being diverted over to Tina Bar - main channel current is just too strong and funneled. So, how does debris get to Tina Bar, generally speaking? By what route? On the other hand, it is a straight shot from the channel behind Catapillar Island to Tina Bar where the money was found. I can see how an article snagged behind Catapillar Island could later move to Tina Bar in a high water scenario. What do you see being there? Thanks, G.

I wonder if people reading this thread have an idea of the actual scale involved for the Columbia at Portland, for example. Or an article landing here winding up at Tina Bar? Or what an open chute landing here would encounter and do, or be noticed. A few pics attached to remove some abstraction in this matter - While large and open in some areas, the Columbia is not the open ocean. Now calc the probability of an average Joe landing in the Columbia at night bailing into cloud cover from 10k feet, jumping from a jet into winds ? These facts might add some realism... G.

AH! I knew Uncle Sluggo wouldn't let me down. Well, the guys in the lab are just PhD students, and may be full of crap, but they say they can synchronize 63 of them, and while the efficiency will still be low, that it will be "good enough". As to the Be-7, well we have a crazy scheme. We're going to put tethered balloons at 50,000 ft to bombard oxygen tanks with cosmic rays. Enough balloons and time, and we think we'll get enough Be-7. The best part is we're getting NASA funding for the balloons. We told them it was for a "space elevator". which is simply an intro to the Tach Express capable of catching up to the Cooper Glimmer fading fast in the Madum Fornax. Say hello to Jessie James on the way out. G.

Georger, “Obsessed” is such an ugly word. Yes, I AM obsessed, but I prefer to call it “Passionate”. And “Cult” is an ugly word too, I prefer “member of a close-knit extended family”. Have you ever met an Alabama football fan, a Michigan State football fan, a Dale Earnhardt, Jeff Gordon, or Dale Jr fan? Now, THOSE FOLKS ARE OBSESSED and CULTISH (Cultish? Is that a word?)

REPLY> The "strongest" evidece is "there is no evidence at all". Has nothing to do with ink or with any other random event on Earth. On any other day it would be you saying this, not me. I have only speculated there was money in that sack - what else would he have thrown into the river with such ceremony. Reply> You have a lot more than speculated. You have maintained it is true for years. You have pinned your whole theory on it, or else what has the last thirteen years been for? Buffalo Dancing? What else would he have thrown? His old lunch from five days earlier, old IRS records, old personal documents he wanted to part with forever, or maybe something of yours you didnt know he had, maybe an old medical report? Who knows what was in the sack. How can anyone know? You say you don't know but then you jump to Cooper money. You might as well jump to the personal letters of Adolf Hitler or proof UFOs exist, or George Washington's underwear! I dont know. Maybe you need a lobotamy to get rid of this Obsession? It appears to me just about everyody involved in this Cooper-thing is obsessed on some level. Maybe Himmelsbach was obsessed and that is part of the reason he never found Cooper? Who knows. What I do know for a fact, is there is precious little sound historical accounting of this matter partly due to a lack of facts, partly due to laziness, and partly due to people's obsessions and ego's. You could write a PhD on the social-psychology of people pursung the Cooper saga. It has a lot in common with ordinary cult behavior. And intelligence has nothing to do with it. G.

Quote Georger Gee, I don’t know if it was Montana (MT) or Minnesota (MN). I did a MapSource search for Missoula MN and got “No items found”. Then I did the search for Missoula MT and got a map at N46 52.431 W113 59.996, so I guess that’s where I was talking about. I understand the plane (Flight 307) went through there on November 25th, 1971. I was so shook-up up about the Navy Seals and MIBs they have guarding me (outside my motel room) I must have punched an “N” instead of a “T”. Did you know that there are female MIBs (or I guess they are WIBs)? They look tougher than the male MIBs. Every since I went to work for URS/Lear Siegler/EG&G, I have been followed by “Camo-Dudes. The ones who work at Area-51 One of the WIBs said I had to surrender my Glock Mod 22 (.40 S&W), I told her; “You’ll get my Glock when you pry it from my cold, dead, hands!” So she kicked me in the balls and took it from me. My hands went cold, but I was far from dead… In fact I have never felt so alive in my (dull) life. Love hurts! The head camo-dude brought it back to me and said Ms. WIB didn’t understand I was from Alabama (AT) and needed my security blanket. He said I could keep it, if I would quit shooting at the rabbits along the highway. I almost never hit any of them. Sluggo_Monster (still on historic Route 68, in Santa Rosa, NN). Reply> I am sure to an outsider it must be a bit overwhelming, but you are no outsider. This is your back yard and cup of tea. But, no freezing rain and ice and fatal traffic accidents there so you are ahead of us here. Salute them back, ask them if they would like a cup of coffee or a donnut, and watch them smirk as they let you through the doors with confidence. All will be fine. You knew I knew the plane stopped in Missoula. Take care. G.

So, what percentage of the Cooper bills do you think Snow's Law applies to? And what is Snow's Law? The video is terrible! G.

I have very great faith that Tom and others are examining many issues. Tom's work is his to deliver and I will not compromise that. The same applies for others likewise, who have contributed or who may still contribute. One issue that could be discussed here is the hydrology to Tina Bar. You dont just toss a package in the Columbia and have it wind up at Tina Bar, as Jo would have it! The probabilities of bringing an object to Tina Bar are rather specific. The delivery of the money to Tina Bar obviously must correlate with the condition of and the amount of money found at Tina Bar. These issues involve hydrology, potentially. I cant steer discussion at his forum and dont want to. Im giving my reaction - G.

QuoteOne theory I had was that there were no black bills when the Ingrams discovered the money and that they darkened more over time, going from brown to black. Reply> you would be 100% wrong. In addition, imho, you could bombard those bills with UV from now until hell freezes over and still you would never produce the black on those bills. Period. It seems to me what you are saying is: 'The FBI did a poor job of protecting the money'. That is a separate issue which does require paper turning brown then to black, all from UV exposure. Do you know, for example, there is a chemistry of US currency paper than retards affects from UV? I'm not suggesting you not speculate but perhaps with less certainty .... the panel was formed to answer just such questions. G.

Interesting discovery, Snow. The bills being exposed to UV (for some length of time presumably - do you know how long to initiate reaction?) perhaps points more in the direction of them being lost? Reply: any money found at Tina Bar was "lost", by definition, or it wouldnt have been found? There are many published photos of bills found. Point to one thing in those photos that points to UV exposure and clarify your contention with the chemical reactions you have in mind? We already discussed the chemistry of paper a long time ago - I have yet to see one of the "brown" bills (going black) that Snow keeps talking about. Might of, should of, maybe this or that doesnt cut it. That is why the panel was formed. And it isnt just Tom. Other experts have contributed also - G.

(the "today" was June 2006) http://www.unjlc.org/airoperations/fleet/boeing727 By the same token as time passed the odds increase that "somebody" will realise "you can jump out of the back of one of those things" and try it - no special explanations needed. (no Vietnam history or Duane's access to and familiarity with the 727 design plans at Boeing required). By the same token, you dont need a complex theory to explain the placard's position or the money at Tina Bar. As I have said from the start: "The money IS the evidence". We have a guy who picked an obvious target, at a vunerable time, and acted. The "odds" are there is no more to it than that. The odds also dictate if he isnt found there will be a large institutional and public bluster fed by public psychology and the media, during a period of national tourmoil and insecurity with the public and some in the FBI hungry for diversion ! I think, had Cooper murdered 10 people the reaction and subsequent search might have been quite different. By all accounts what Cooper did was a stunt, simple in its design, by a person whose primary skills were "social", not technical. Technical explanations are hardly even required in this case, and that is one surprising outcome of the analysis. Cooper's social skills lead him into and through this entire event, and every choice Cooper made, and possibly the outcome. He bailed where he saw lights coming up because of his social instincts. These lights were near the Columbia River ... or we would have found money at Orchards ... or at Missoula MN! This is where the odds lead. G.

Are you talking about this guy maybe? From the link Snow posted on Dec 26. http://www.thefreelibrary.com/D.B+COOPER%27S+LEAP+INTO+INFAMY+:+DARING+HIJACKER+ESCAPED+BY+JUMPING...-a084004103 Like I've said before if it was in a newspaper in 1996 it hardly counts as a secret... I wonder how many federal employees there were in the US in 1971. I wonder how many of them would have been on planes to or from major cities at any given time. I daresay the odds were pretty high? I dont think Sluggo is talking about "odds".

================= Of course they were on the plane, but not in any "secret" capacity. It was odd they were taken off separately from the other passengers. This was just because they worked with the Federal Government - no other reason I have been able to find. If one of them was the man in front of the LDS Assembly Hall in 1979...that might freak a lot of people out. Cooper was a Lone (outlaw) Ranger with his Tonto. There was a man on board who either was or became a Federal Attorney - one of these? ....... in missoula, minnesota.

BTW: I’m taking bets that the next four new names associated with NORJACK are: Andvik, Street, Donahoe and Truitt. All GSA “Bean Counters on a secret mission from Missoula, MN to Seattle, WA. Dont you mean: Missoula MT ? Didnt know there was a Missoula Minnesota ? Just the kind of trivial detail that drives me wild. Maybe it is MN. Maybe its Northern Manchuria? G.

have it but gentlemen, ladies, lets keep this within reason - I seriously doubt he was available on 11-24-71 ? The people at this large busy corporation are doing this as a favour. Let's not strech our welcome. We might want/need more than one shot at this -

I always thought that's what jail's for, so you reconsider? I did leave myself one out (although you'll notice the bill is just blurry enough to not be an issue with the SS troopers) It's a series 1969. If you look at where the series numbers are, they're too blurry to read, but you can tell there's nothing there for the A in 1963A. I could have got it a little better, but hey, it was just a 5 minute job. Note the serial numbers are a little misaligned, and the green ink on the 5 is light because I got it from another bill. (edit) I always thought the best scam would have been to plant decomposed counterfeit twenties on Tena Bar. Piltdown not allowed.

got it - face#24- nice face - interesting nose vs Cooper's. .