georger

[ Some people cannot read, write or spell or compose a literate sentence...therefore how can that be "ConFUSSING". The correct spelling is C-O-N-F-U-S-I-N-G. There are 2 spaces after a period. "isue's " is spelled ISSUES and it has no possessive apostrophe. Many of us make grammatical and punctuation mistakes, but we don't go around making false accusations about other posters. You are an excellent example of those who start rumors and cause actual suspects to be ignored. You have done everything in your power to discredit me since 2001 when I refused to communicate with you after you "lied" to me. Then you found the forum and again proceeded to attack me...yet I have the written documentations regarding what I wrote to Himmelsbach which is the same things I tried to tell you. I also have written documentations (Quade received quotations from a copy of the email sent to me by Perry) regarding the trip to WA in 2001...this particular E-mail proved you are the one who lied and not me. I also have a copy of the letter I mailed to Himmelsbach with a map of the area I was describing which is exactly how I described it to you. I reminded you over and over that I didn't know the names of the places and all I could do was describe them. I sent you the same drawing I sent Himmelsbach. I did not have a map of the area - I was drawing that map from my memory of the trip - yet you said there were no such places and you are the one who insisted on the names and the places Duane took me. I was able to find these places when I went to WA, despite your flagrant insistence that no such places existed. Also there is an email to Perry regarding the Tavern we went to and the Tavern you insisted was torn down before I was there in May of 2001. Sorry, you are the one who is mistaken or as you put it writing fiction that caused individual's to discount truths that were told. You have gone down publically in this forum calling me names and discrediting me - these items will be provided to anyone who publically quotes you on these inaccuracies and will receive photo copies of the items. Names of places used in a documentary were provided by you before I had a map of the area...and all I knew was what I had seen. I did everything I could to get that corrected, but you had done what you set out to do. You knew exactly the area I was describing and you were all over it, all the while claiming I was talking about another area....what was your purpose? You are an excellent example of the senario you stated with this quotation "someone that reads this stuff may actually have good info and get thrown off because someone decided that confussing the facts of the case would make a good book". That is a quoted from your own post! You claim to be such a Christian - but, you are as phony as a 3 dollar bill. So the above is your Sacrament? Your words are like lightning, out of the anus of a squirrel.

Yes, 377 - I am speaking in riddles as I am sure Georger will be telling all about what is found soon. Remember whatever the finding are - they will be co-mingled with the objective of the study. I will? Sluggo must be losing it about now, wondering... so for his sake alone let me say, Jo, you are batting at snowballs in June.

Key words are: / I received some information from a quasi-anonymous source. I tried to verify whether it was the truth or just someone with time on their hands and a fertile imagination, but I was unable to do so. Requests for a source, so I could verify the authenticity of the information, have gone un-answered so I’m going to post this, with the caveat as just stated. / It just illustrates how difficult it is to get hard information even on the most mundane of subjects in this case. I think it has infected the investigation from the start - the consequences of which seems to be a tunnel vision and sometimes a pandemic paranoia for anyone saying anything 'on the record' which only fuels further suspicion and distrust . . . leading to everyone chewing on everyone. The discovery of the money at Tina Bar resulted in a flurry of activity involving all kinds of people not just at Portland-Vancouver but in other areas of Washington-Oregon, activity which continued for years (finally involving people like Tosaw and Jerry Thomas, for example). Here at DZ we have been relying on a small core of people who it turns out are expressing a small core of facts and opinion compared to the larger population which was actually involved in the money find and subsequent events. I have been sampling this larger population with some interesting results. Some of these people go way-back before the 1980 money find and have an interesting perspective based on their very long experience with the Columbia, Washougal, Lewis, weather, hydrology, potential sightings and rumored sights, etc. I may have more to share later if things go well. [Jerry also.]

[ Does anyone have a list of all the claimed sitings - given back in 1971? Overlay those sitings with the Easterly and Westerly most possible lines. 2. Sluggo_Monster United States Jumps License In sport : : : Mar 31, 2008, 7:15 AM Post #728 of 17628 (5123 views) Copy Shortcut Registered: Jan 24, 2008 Posts: 713 Re: [SafecrackingPLF] If Cooper Lived... [In reply to] Can't Post -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- All, I received some information from a quasi-anonymous source. I tried to verify whether it was the truth or just someone with time on their hands and a fertile imagination, but I was unable to do so. Requests for a source, so I could verify the authenticity of the information, have gone un-answered so I’m going to post this, with the caveat as just stated. I have uploaded two images the first (Truck-and-Tractor-5583-ft-ANN-RED.jpg) is a Google Earth Image (taken 05/07-2007) at an apparent altitude of 5583 feet. It shows the approximate parachute location and a region of interest labeled “Truck and Tractor”. The other image (Truck and Tractor-Close.jpg) is at an apparent altitude of 1080 feet. The quasi-anonymous source claims the truck is parked over the location of the parachute find. I sat on this for one day, waiting for a response from the sender, so, now I’m posting. It’s yours, for what it’s worth. Once again, this is not my work, I don’t do rumors, myths, and conjecture. Well, maybe conjecture. Sluggo_Monster Attachments: Truck-and-Tractor-5583-ft-ANN-RED.jpg (122 KB) Truck-and-Tractor-Close.jpg (123 KB)

Does anyone have a list of all the claimed sitings - given back in 1971? Overlay those sitings with the Easterly and Westerly most possible lines. 1. SafecrackingPLF Jumps License In sport : : : Mar 31, 2008, 7:10 AM Post #727 of 17628 (5129 views) Copy Shortcut Registered: Nov 27, 2007 Posts: 423 Re: [speedy] If Cooper Lived... [In reply to] Can't Post -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Speedy, Interesting thought. I will be interested to read the Hancock statement to see if Cooper was harnessing up BEFORE speaking to Rataczak... that would play directly into that idea. Well, I was going to post on this anyway, but someone new already touched on it. There are witnesses who swear the plane was on a different flight path that night. Witnesses meaning people who either heard or saw the plane in a totally different location. I know of one witness, someone I've spoken to personally, who was reading a book that night between 8-8:30 and heard an enormous roar from a slow moving jet go over her house. What made it so odd was that this person lived in Cougar at the time and it's extremely quiet out there. Cougar meaning west side of Yale Lake! If I go off of her testimony, it would mean the plane was 13.5 miles off course to the East. Apparently this witness knows of another family that lived close by who corroborated hearing the same thing. Incidentally, some Portland FBI agents interviewed this woman and her husband a few days later because the husband witnessed a man dressed in a business suit heading west on Lewis River Road, but the location of the spotting was literally on the north side of Yale Lake... implying that he was coming from the east! This husband claimed to think it was odd clothing for the location (this is way up in the mountains) and was expecting to see a broken down car, which he never saw. The husband was working construction on the east side of Swift Resevoir. As posted already, in Friday's Columbian, Dennis Levanen was quoted as saying the plane was in the wrong location as well. He places the plane in Heisson, 7 miles east of point F on the Jan 72 landing zone map. If you actually thought the parachute was found in Amboy, then you could trace a line between Cougar, Amboy and Heisson and have them all line up. The problem is, this jet would be coming from Mt. St. Helens, not MALAY. Further, it should be noted, there were several witnesses in Ariel who vividly remember the roar of the jet flying over their town Thanksgiving Eve. Therefore, we have witnesses who swear the jet was East and witnesses who swear the jet was right where McChord AFB

attached flares (eg taped together) and then the attachment tape burned and they separated during descent. 377 that could be ... just as they were in the briefcase. I think its important Janet establish herself as a witness independent of anyone having a candidate. This supposed witness account needs to stand on its own ... thoughts?

[ G, forgive me if I have forgotten, but - who were these witnesses? Would they reliably be able to gauge the altitude of a plane? The Heison report was in a newspaper clipping. I know it has been mentioned in this thread (several years ago). I will have to dig the clipping out. But Sluggo should remember this and be able to speak to it ......... *** I wish Janet would establish herself as an Independent Witess. I am not criticising Galen Cook or anyone else but I think Janet's credibility rests with her story and herself, and there are many credible reputable people of record who would help Janet establish herself as an independent witness ... 377 what do you think if you care to comment? There are many credible, reliable, and honest people here at Dropzone and at Portland-Vancouver who might help if Janet wanted help establishing herself as a witness ... I just thought I would express the idea -

I have the same reservations for the same reasons and more, however I am not willing to 'label' her claim as a "Roswell ...."? That's reactive. Why not test the claim and wait until more evidence is in? She could have seen exactly what she says and be a sole witness in spite of the odds. I am waiting for more evidence. I think I have been rather specific about the questions I have. The physics is clear. Janet's claim almost requires that n467 was below 10k feet - the photo I posted illustrates that point. But witnesses near Heison also stated the plane was well below 10k feet. This forum is full of people with firsthand aviation experience and people with a good general knowledge of physics et cetera. I would tend to pay attention to that ... what does disturb me a little is the altering of the original story I was given, from an oblique sighting at some distance to now being something which occurred directly over Janet's house. That bother's me a little. You bring up witness psychology. It is also true that people witness things and just dont report it. Events that later turn out to have been real often wind up with witnesses surfacing late ... and often very late. How many credible witnesses to some piece of the Cooper case have never surfaced publically at all? Hundreds! I am willing to wait a bit longer ... [edit]: One part of the story that intrigues me is the splitting off into two pieces. I have played with flares too as a kid. I have seen a lot of flares burning. I have never seen a flare split apart into two burning pieces. Janet's account sounds like two flares were dropped - appeared as one in the beginning then separated as the flares drifted apart. That intrigues me because it sounds like a willful act on somebody's part. Would a trained jumper drop two flares for a specific reason, as a part of prior experience-training vs. just one flare?

Years ago there was a report of someone seeing the plane go over their house, near Heison. I dont recall the claim mentioning a platform or stairs extended. The report did stress 'the engines were straining and very loud' ... that reported was finally discounted. Sluggo probably knows which report Im referring to -

Eyewitness? After reaching the house, she and her husband loaded their two children into the family's Datsun to take them to a babysitter so they could go to dinner at the nearby upscale Key Hotel. Janet, who was in the passenger seat, looked up just as the car was backing out of the driveway and saw a light pass overhead. A platform or ladder below a plane caught her eye. "What I saw was flames and thought I saw something on the platform which could have been a person," Janet said. Immediately, the fireball arched away from the platform, split into two and then disappeared in the direction of the Columbia River. Cook believes the fireball Janet saw was Gossett tossing some road flares made to look like a dynamite bomb to judge wind direction to safely guide him to the ground. Cook said his research has shown winds were blowing from the southeast at more than 60 knots in the Portland area around the time of the hijacking. "This kind of wind speed would likely cause a falling flarepack to appear fiery, as reported by Janet," he said. Using a radar map, Cook has determined the hijacked jet passed directly over Janet's house and the direction of the fireball she saw drifting away from the plane is in alignment with the river bank where some of the ransom money was found. Cook said Janet's eyewitness account backed up by physical data has convinced him he's closer than ever to solving the Cooper case. The first version of this report I heard (was given) was that Janet's eye witness was an oblique sighting, at some distance; not something directly occurring over her house! I have no idea when this most recent element has been added or by who. The person who told me this story claimed Janet saw these events 'possibly occuring as far away as Orchard'. I argued with the teller at the time that the detail being described was a physical impossibility given the distance involved. "Cook has determined the hijacked jet passed directly over Janet's house" has been added to the story since I was first told of this story. The physical facts of human vision remain the same, regardless of anyone's story: * Angular resolution: about 0.02°-0.03°), which corresponds to 30–60 cm at a 1 km distance = 0.625mi = 3300ft. Translated this means that people with normal vision can usually resolve objects no closer apart than 30-60cm (1-2 feet) at a distance of 3300 feet or 1 km. (see Wiki Vision Acuity; other sources convey the same standard data on human vision). To illustrate the above attached is a photo of an airport taken from precisely 10,000 feet above an airport (in the Google archive). Try to see details on the aircraft parked at the airport. I am not sure Janet could have even seen a "platform" extended from the rear of #n467us at 10,000 feet even directly over her house. A report of the kind Janet has given coupled with the usual parameters for human vision, almost requires n467us had to be lower than 10,000 feet (perhaps even low enough to hear) or Janet's observation could not have been made. I am also concerned about the time elements involved. What Janet describes requires time to happen. Did her husband stop the car and they got and watched? What Janet describes could not have ll happened instantaneously - I am concerned that out of almost ~800,000 potenetial witnesses only Janet saw this event? The probability of that happening is almost zero - The wind data Galen Cook is supplying comes directly from the Bohan report. So why not just say the money find at Tina Bar ties directly to what Janet saw - why is it required that Gosset snuk in later and hand buried the money at Tina Bar? Why the complication of a story with unique symmetry to begin with? Why would Janet see this event and nobody else did and reported it?

Burton M. Wink of Portland, OR, passed away on April 19, 2010. He was born in Sioux City, IA on Jan. 3, 1939. Burton worked for Wilhelm Trucking for 38 years and retired from the Coast Guard Reserve after 37 years. Burton is survived by his wife, Janet (Hjelmaa) Wink; two daughters, Laura McDaniel and Renee Uren; and two grandsons, Matt and Marshall McDaniel.

I wouldnt even hazard a guess about how closely various FBi agents followed the original Cooper profile (physical) when pursuing leads. It's just something Ive always wondered about, but that basic profile does seem a good place to start with just for openers ?

It reminds me of the buzz in west coast jump circles right after Norjack. It was just so damned cool. Lots of jumpers wanted to be a suspect. Lots of jumpers hinted that they KNEW FOR SURE who Cooper was. The Cooper "flame" attracted a certain kind of moth in 1971 and has continued to do so for nearly four decades. 377 It would be interesting to know the kinds of people the FBI sought out, if one or multiple profiles were used. We probably will never know. I do think there are "cultural-class goggles' working here however. You engineer types always seem to focus on your own kind, which is interesting? It is also possible to be so focused on "fact vs myth" that minor factoids become new myth. The myth of the perfect fact, the missing link fact, and the Oracle of Facts vs. Myths. You can pass a lot of lies through a fact vs. myth bunghole! For example, you guys unanimously bypass any info about candidate's eye colour. You (plural) must have decided eye colour can be bypassed because the FBI and witnesses got it wrong. BROWN EYES IS A MYTH! Maybe the Oracle of Fact vs. Myth proclaimed that in private emails? Then what!? What color are Burnworth's eyes? In hours of interview has anyone asked? How closely did the FBI stick to the initial description? That would be interesting to know. Maybe I missed that part. I'm getting old ... waiting.

It is a given that the Palmer Report regarding the money find in 1980 - stated the money had been in a protected state for a period of time. The fairies told you ?

For example, that professor's findings about the money location are critical. Did the FBI get a second opinion? My guess is no. FACT VRS. MYTH: The answer is: Yes. 2nd, 3rd, and 4th opinions .... Palmer had associates who worked with him in the project. This is common knowledge. There were outside advisors, consultants, and people who gave opinions based on their expertise .... as one of these advisors put it to me: "Why! would anyone think it was otherwise? Sounds fishy to me, like somebody is trying to control the facts. It's common knowledge... this excavation wasn't some big secret ... there were plenty of reporters allowed on the site after the money was found ... in all the years I have been working on the Columbia this event fits into similar events which have been conducted here .... there were lots of people involved." Fact check: Jerry Thomas can confirm this interview occured -

8. At the time of the hijacking and subsequent search, it was assumed he jumped from the plane at or near the Merwin Dam (2011 PST (based on a reported “pressure bump”). In 2008, the FBI extended the calculation to 2013, 2014, or 2015, which would put the jump somewhere near Orchard, WA. Note: Orchard is 6 miles SE of the BTG VOR. [Based on Flight Tracking Strip (Radar based) supplied by the FBI and posts on DZ.com forum]. As I stated before; “it isn’t a fact, unless we all can agree it is a fact”. So, everybody okay with the new #8? Thanks for everybody’s help in building a database of facts and myths, Sluggo_Monster How do you get money from Orchard to Tina Bar, especially if he's dead? [edit} Previous Response from Sluggo - [If you are talking about the Ingram find specifically, there’s no way that money hit the elements (in the state it was found) in 1971. It was part of the whole bag, or a smaller cache, that was protected for at least 8 years before it was exposed to the elements. If you’re thinking the Ingram find was dropped in flight and settled somewhere near Tena Bar and got caught-up in a semi-protected state, then due to wind, water, erosion, etc. made it’s way onto the sandbar circa 1979… well… I don’t think so. The flight path was 4 miles east of the bar. If it left the plane at the river crossing it would have gone east. It would have spent 9 years in the water before being found. (Maybe a windsurfer in The Dalles found it!) ]

The Soap continues ... as Jo Turns. So your call to Ralph got you thinking about Tina again? Father figure evokes a real response out of you? How long have you been seeing yourself as a victim, like Tina?, with all of the appropriate psychobabble to fictionalize a pseudo reality? Isnt this a large case of projection on your part? Where id it start, with your father or Duane? See any resemblance - attached? [edit] The Fibonacci progression continues... SchlitznGrins has either a damned good education of very good instincts! May hat is off to SchlitznGrins! He saw what I failed to see - its as simple as that.

No Sluggo did not provide this map - I had it before I ever met Sluggo about 2 1/2 yrs ago although I had communicated with him by email for several yrs. ================ I will provide that only to an FBI agent of record. Carr had the name and the phone number. He was not out of Portland and was related to one of the women. He was undercover at that time and sacrificed a day with his children to chauffeur me around with 3 other women. He knew the areas well - the area he was going to take me too was the same as the TV Crew did...but we all know my story about the Angel Udell and the directions she gave me which I shared with this "driver". ====================

I have never found out who sent me this map in 2001 after my trip to WA. The driver (an off duty law enforcement agent provided me with a map, but I don't think it was this one). I believe this one arrived by mail after I got home....when I voiced my frustration over Jerry telling me none of the stuff Duane showed me existed and this map also shows the LaCames / Washougal area. Just a dumb Blonde with an old map and her memory of a trip made in 1979.......the map was NOT acquired until AFTER my trip in 2001. Sluggo worked with you. He must know what map you have? Sluggo Monster? As for your driver you say was an off duty law enforcement "agent" if you can pass the name to Sluggo Monster I can in turn tell him exactly who that was. I assume you are talking about a LE person in Portland, but that really does not matter. The name is all I require, even just a first name or nickname, initials ... photo?

I didn't see this map - Please explain what all the different Points mean - just for general information or reference the post I have missed that details the points. There are others like myself who have not followed the maps but interested in this U of yours and the system you used. Please simplify some of it for those of us who are not accustome to reading this kind of map. see and read attached - NWA prepared this map to assist the FBI searching for Cooper. NWA and others thought Cooper bailed at Point A, and landed somewhere along line A-B. That was the basis for the search at Merwin Lake.

Φ The Fibonacci Numbers are widely known all over the world, regardless of religion or ideological affiliation. Many natural phenomena develop in proportions which follow the Fibonacci Series (or Fibonacci progressions). The Fibonacci progression is omnipresent in Nature, indeed in the Universe. For example, the rabbits multiply in a Fibonacci progression, atomic behavior follows a Fibonacci progression resulting in the five basic architectural patterns known in Nature, etc. The Fibonacci series has its origin in the cycles of natural phenomenon and where the Fibonacci progression fails some modified version of a progression succeeds, in some time scale dimension. See: http://saliu.com/Fibonacci.html Did the flight path of NWA #305 follow a Fibonacci progression? See Sluggo's NWA FP map aattached- Look at the NWA map. What kind of progression(s) does it convey? If we assume a Fibonacci progression, what does that imply about the 'data' which were used to construct the map? If part of the data was radar data, what does a F-progression imply or require of the radar tracking (stations - assimilation of radar plots from different vectors)?. If we distort the NWA map to a west vrs east longitude how does that fit with the underlying assumption of a F-progression set from different bases? I am speaking numerically here when I use the term "bases"(Farflung said he thought the FP followed a predictable progression of some kind... and he specified several of his criteria). The nice thing about F-progressions is you can weight the progressions according to a set of Probabiliuty assumptions. (Economists and Physicists do this all the time). If the progression fails to predict or conform with observed facts, then the assumptions underlying the progression are changed.. Example: Tosaw concluded that nothing happens just once in nature. To Tosaw, one instance of money at T-bar implied money somewhere else also. But Tosaw never found other money at other locations. How is this explained by a single F-progression? What facts of the money find at T-bar conform with an F-progression. If the money at T-bar conforms to any progression what other (undocumented) facts are implied that also conform with the Tosaw results? ... or with the Kaye analysis? I'll let you mull this over. This isnt a criticism of anyone, just an observation. {I have inserted a "U" in Sluggo's NWA-FBI map where it belongs ...}

You nailed it pretty much. Pi, Euler's Number, The Golden Ratio (a Fibonacci Progression), and unresolvable irrational numbers of which the last several idigits of the last serie are out of sequence and nonsense meant to test the depth of your mutual knowledge base - When I saw your numbers I was surprised (and delighted) so I responded with irrational numbers wondering what your response (if any) would be - a kind of communication test. You and I have just given a real example of what two intelligent civilisations might exchange in order to signify an opportunity for communicating. We obviously share some common understanding of the world. I dont expect anyone but you & I to understand what I am saying here - but we obviously share some common knowledge (and aliens might be now informing their respective world's of a discovery!). All because of your original message transmitted (number progressions) I received yestereday. So: "Hello! How's the weather there on Coopertino?" Is Seth reading this? No. (Similar experiments in basic conversation have been tried in the past) Send me the ratios which establish the physical parameters of your world if you wish further communication. 3.14159... is a start. Unfortunately the script available does not transmit my base formulae so I will have to result to number ratios - Truth value Range = 01 = T 10 = F 00 = not (T or F) SQ/00 = .5000000000000T IFF SQ/2 NOT = 01 OK? Additional: H serie 97.0% 2 656.3 4>2 486.1 5>2 434.1 6>2 410.2 7>2 397.0 8>2 388.9 9>2 383.5 I>2 364.6 S= 3520.7000000000000=01 Give me yours ..... Cooper Ratios by event ~ ............................. Flight Path/TL ratios by segment ~ ................... Money~FP/TL ratios by time segment ~ ............ Money locations = 3/[Xn............] Money locations vrs. FP Opportunity (express as Pn) Let me try this out: PN = N* x fp x ne x fl x fi x fe x L/Tg Are you interested? This is what Safecracking tried to say but could not articulate, so here it is (above) in proper formalistic form. Ratios and irrational numbers can have real meaning when properly applied. 46 75 63 6b 69 6e 67 20 69 6e 74 65 72 6e 65 74 20 2d 20 49 20 6a 75 73 74 20 73 70 65 6e 74 20 31 30 20 6d 69 6e 75 74 65 73 20 64 65 63 6f 64 69 6e 67 20 69 74 20 62 79 20 68 61 6e 64 20 61 6e 64 20 74 68 65 6e 20 67 6f 6f 67 6c 65 64 20 61 20 63 6f 6e 76 65 72 74 65 72 21 20 48 6f 77 20 6d 61 6e 79 20 72 65 61 64 65 72 73 20 61 72 65 20 62 6f 74 68 65 72 69 6e 67 20 74 6f 20 64 65 63 6f 64 65 20 74 68 69 73 3f = 1! Have a nice day:

46 75 63 6b 69 6e 67 20 69 6e 74 65 72 6e 65 74 20 2d 20 49 20 6a 75 73 74 20 73 70 65 6e 74 20 31 30 20 6d 69 6e 75 74 65 73 20 64 65 63 6f 64 69 6e 67 20 69 74 20 62 79 20 68 61 6e 64 20 61 6e 64 20 74 68 65 6e 20 67 6f 6f 67 6c 65 64 20 61 20 63 6f 6e 76 65 72 74 65 72 21 20 48 6f 77 20 6d 61 6e 79 20 72 65 61 64 65 72 73 20 61 72 65 20 62 6f 74 68 65 72 69 6e 67 20 74 6f 20 64 65 63 6f 64 65 20 74 68 69 73 3f 3.1415926535897932384626433832795 ... 2.7182818284590452353602874713526 ... 1.6180339887498948482073824974627 ... 1.7320508075688772935274463415059 ... 9.9498743710661995473447982103010

Now, wasn’t that special? You probably think this song is about YOU! Dohn-chew!

..somethings only I and select individuals are privey to. And there in a nutshell is your whole case and your whole involvement in this Cooper matter; from beginning to end. But you have a lot of company. Its just too bad none of them can talk outside their circles of delusion! Good luck.