georger

Brunworth vs. Mr. X timeline: Hyjacking Nov 24, 71. Date 28 Nov 71: When X returned to work on the Monday morning following the Thanksgiving weekend, he was called into his company’s conference room and was met by three federal officials. X believes that two were FBI and the third was FAA. (And lastly, “They had a lot of time and money invested in Burnworth.”) (already knew Burnworth from prior investigations?) Date_?: X claims B worked with him for Sail Fish at Slt Lake City in 1971 and that B had just disappeared prior to hijacking. X said that two others were part of the DC-7-C crew who flew with him and Burnsworth. One of the crew, the Flight Engineer, Bill Munson also worked for Zantop Aviation, a contract operation for the CIA and related to Air America. The fourth crew member was Bob Cupil, Date_ 1973? Don Burnworth acknowledges flying with X at Sail Fish (Utah), but says it was in the 1973-1974 time period, after the time of the skyjacking. Don corroborates all aspects of the flight experience with X on the DC-7 to Alaska and back for Sailfish Air Freight. Date_?: Burnworth was incarcerated by the FBI for eight days following the skyjacking; not sure of the exact time period, place of arrest and incarceration and date of release. {? arrested soon after hijacking by FBI in Germany where hiding out with his children and working as a pilot for UAL, or on return trip from Germany to USA shortly after hijacking? Hiding out in Germany with his children to escape his wife’s mob family..} B was fired by UAL at that time because he was an active suspect. That was when he went to fly for Sailfish Air Freight in Salt Lake City. He flew one trip for Sailfish to Alaska, according to X Date_?: Labor Relations trial followed. B reinstated by UAL. Date_ 1973-1978: DONALD O BURNWORTH Married to Nancy on 8/02/73. Date overlaps working for Sail Fish? Divorced 1977 ? Action filed in Oklahoma: Relief from Alimoney etc. BURNWORTH v. BURNWORTH No. 50138. 572 P.2d 301 1977 OK CIV APP 52 Decided: November 1, 1977. Court of Appeals of Oklahoma, Division No. 2. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- NANCY BURNWORTH, APPELLEE, v. DONALD O. BURNWORTH, APPELLANT. Appeal from the District Court of Oklahoma County.

My manual does not give details on this space, sorry. Occam's razor says the simplest explanation is that Burnworth's wife had nothing to do with Norjack but thought the drawing looked like her husband and decided to drop a dime on a call to the FBI. If Cooper hid in the stairwell behind some removable covers, how would he escape from the plane after landing without being detected by the FBI who was waiting and watched every move? 377 If this was an inside job by the FBI then they sure spoofed a lot of their own including area LE including ... etc etc. Taken away by a car at the end of runway? While sharp shooters danced to Hoky Poky? Why does the mob and their wives get to have all the damned fun! It just aint fair!

He may have been in contact with her recently and felt like by making his story parallel to her's he could gain traction. I JUST DON’T KNOW! I have distanced myself from Skyjack71 because I felt like she ruined her credibility and could potentially ruin mine (by association). I have been quick to criticize her for her “leaps of logic,” none of that has changed. If she wants to present (formerly withheld) information, I think we owe it to her to listen. If she makes her “typical illogical and circumstantial associations,” that’s her prerogative, we (I) don’t have to give any weight to her conclusions. But, I hope she chooses to weigh in with her information. Now, all of you piranhas, take a big bite of Sluggo, it’s flavorful, tender, satisfying, and filling… but most of all… honest. No bites. No reason for bites. It is what it is. I think the linkage is very simple. You have company in this. Jo is not part of the story, if I am correct, but only the holder of part of the story she picked up from ... at an earlier date. That is my explanation for this coincidence. I am not going to name here. It is my speculation that Jo believes when all of this passes Duane will then emerge as a more serious cnadidate. He won't, but I'm speculating that is Jo's viewpoint. That is how I see this. I will NEVER-EVER! release "Charlie Daniels" name! ... or his dog "The General"'s name either! People are free to speculate what their names might be. (more "useless crap" from Georger)

How does he explain money at Tina Bar and when did it arrive there?

Also, if a jumper on a night military mission disappears, the rest of the load doesn't just shrugg it off. It is a huge deal. A search is mobilized. Exactly: it would have been a huge matter with all kinds of people alerted/brought into the matter. Moreover, when X says: ' On one particular jump a stranger joined them.' ... that is impossible. Let's forget about authorisation, command, etc. This sounds like a Jo Weber concoction. This story presses a lot of buttons. Its a string of archetypes connected. The one thing missing is a McCoy Utah Ntl Guard connection - I guess X left that out for the time being? I smell a shiksa at work - hocken me ha'chinik - and I don't mean efsheh! Snowman will be all over this - send us a report.

My follow-up. All my efforts to locate and contact Don Burnsworth have been unsuccessful. I do not know if he is still alive, even. Curiously, the website for retired United pilots has been down for the past few weeks. X has been active, recently, in trying to find Burnsworth and the other principals. Efforts to locate Jack Richards have also met with dead ends, although we think we have traced him to Onyx Aviation in Sequim, WA. I have had a subsequent interview with X, and he has spoken with Jo several times, too. I find X to be credible. That's one helluva yarn, if you are a Martian!

Great photos. I visited DM AFB way back when they gave bus tours through the boneyard. They stopped and let you get out and see the planes up close. A guy started weeping quietly when he saw his plane (a B 52) with the wing spars severed, destined for scrapping under the SALT nuke force reduction treaty. I toyed with idea of buying a Boeing KC 97L Stratofreighter when they put the last retired ANG birds up for govt. auction. They were complete and had low to mid time R 4360-59B radial engines (and two jets too) and very low airframe TT, typically 5000 hours. They all went for under $30,000 each, some for much less ($12,500). I thought it would be cool to put one on a piece of cheap dry desert land as a vacation cabin. It was a dumb idea, but one guy did something similar with a surplus 97. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLrITQ1lbQs Connie, the co-pilot of the C 54G that flew as a WFFC jumpship in 2000 flew right seat in a C 97 that was ferried from the boneyards of AZ to a new home in Oregon where it served as a restaurant called Flight 97. When the restaurant went bust the plane was patched up and flown out to a new assignment as a static display at some airbase. 377 Naw. . . I want the F86. (attach) to go with my current one. (attach serie)

attachmonte'

His left testicle?

Look at attachment 3. This is the spawn of the Seattle sectional, edge matched and attached to the Portland sectional. Take a look at the index from attachment 1 if you need some perspective. Now zoom into (attachment 3) what looks like the the word NO in felt tip pen (I'll wait). Just to the right of the word NO you will notice the archaic abbreviation for Oregon as OREG and Washington as /ASH. Hey, what happened to the dub-ya? Careless cartographers are not showing proper respect to a higher governmental administrative body or...... is that where the two sectionals are glued together? Can you see the line where the longitudinal index begins to diverge from the projection error? Who ever joined the charts did a pretty good job. Well done Special Agent Bob. This was noticed before here (I did) but nobody cared to pursue it or thought it significant? You have now connected a few historical dots. We were examining 'tic' marks, or at least I was, during Sluggo's work trying to establish a timeline. Just to ward off possible criticism I am not making any value judgement about Sluggo in anything Im saying here. It was obvious the two sections of the FBI map did not mate up, and who knows how much one can read into that. One thing does appear clear, however. (I even wondered if the large NO stood for north section (of two maps); who knows what "NO" refers to?) But if you look at "2010" on the upper map you will notice its leftside arrow has been covered up by the 'pasteup' job. 2010 is then applied on the bottom section a second time in heavier ink. But it made me wonder: "How long was this upper map before the pastup job was done?" Maybe the upper map did not extend down much further and thus a paste up job was required (given the dates/versions of the maps used). However, when the lower section was pasted to the upper section it's obvious to me a flight path had already been penciled on it (prior to second and third applications of ink/pencil/etc). There are many layers of penciling and ink on both maps - prior to the pasteup - I am sure I can prove that. (what this means is anyone's guess). This is a case of two maps with flight path already penciled on both sections, then joined. You can see see the double thickness (joiner) line. Once joined more penciling is done then what appears as magic marker you notied, and actual ink ... worked by different people, different sessions of work? This is not a fresh map received as a pastup from the publisher then worked (penciled on to)... This map we are looking at and the NWA La Center Quad map are NOT the only maps that were prepared in this case. I know that for a fact. So, it is not as if this is the only map the FBI and others had by early 1972. Who knows why this map in particular waw passed down over time to finally become 'thee flight path map' presented to the public. Here are a few attachments you may see something in; two before posted months ago here by me. Sluiggo used this map to take his physical measurements for a timeline off of. One question is: has the scale of the map been distorted in some significant way that would affect timescale assignments? By contrast, the NWA map which became public does not have radar tic marks on it. I believe that map was originally computer generated and FAXed to the FBI. (Sluggo will be all over me for saying that!). Your post is remarkable.

[ This is what has been needed - for those who know what they are talking about to enter these discussions - What "discussions"? It's a silent movie here and always has been.

wow! (1) In your opinion, who would have had access to map #2/3 attached (or used it) to make a radar plot on it? Someone in the FBI, someone at NWA? The effort seems crude to me vrs. other altertnatives eg. the more formal probability map Soderlind produced which looks like a computer generated ,ap to me ... ? (2) Would the military have used different (military)maps? (computer generated) (3) The socalled "FBI Map" (yellow) looks to me like an informal attempt to plot a radar track on a chart of the day? Who would do that? Any thoughts or opinions-guesses? For my own part I know next to nothing about aviation charts. Please dont find my questions stupid or offensive ... I may PM you about this next week if you dont mind. Thanks.

Hi Sluggo. The Bomb I dropped in WA revealed the very same thing. Sluggo is fortunate to have you checking his work. Keep up your Revelations to the planet, Earth!

Cooper had no idea where he was UNLESS AND ONLY IF he was very good at celestial navigation/lunar navigation, and saw some stars/the moon above 10k feet, somehow figured out they were on V23 and he knew V23... etc etc etc. All he hoped for was: headed south. He may have figured out they were headed south (saw reference points he could interpret) and then clued in to the lights of Portland-Vancouver coming up. IF he jumped as per the original NWA estimate then none of this even matters.

He isn't alone. I have now contacted an aviation historian who should be able to supply someone knowledgeable in aviation chart history, who just might be able to identify which map the FBI plots were drawn on - I am tired of waiting on "the experts". This should be elementary? (Tom Kaye may already know, btw?)

Im not going to say "I told you so - " but damit Sluggo. Mystery Chart indeed. If Larry & others didnt know the origin of the chart how in blazes .......... could you? That said and over with, a DZ at Scholls Airport was discussed before. Some searches might now be in order. And I dont appreciate being referred to as a member of a Zoo. That may be your perception, but yours alone.

funny. Two aspirin, hot shower, and sleep. That's my RX.

Read NPR interview: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=126390880

You really need to do something about that scary avatar - looks Schizophrenic! I hear you were turned down for a documentary?

Yes, there is a still-living witness who was a radar operator following the flight. He says: “They were never significantly off of Victor-23.” He wishes to remain anonymous and does not want his name published. Will he allow his location to be cited, because as you well-know there are people who say your "witness" is not credible and quoting: "this is all bullshit". so a little background for your announcement might have been in order? You knew in advance this was going to be provocative so some provenance might have been in order? Or, maybe you do have a discovery which you and you alone (and 377) will keep from the world until time to use it as you see fit. I apologise for my arrogance in asking a simple question! Let me explain further, the importance of this issue because as a matter of shere fact it goes to the very heart of what AnestralManor means when he uses the term 'primary sources' - a social science term used, eg. in genealogical circles, which means people with firsthand (factual?) information as opposed to people who never had direct involvement in a partcular matter at issue - The issue of radar plots goes directly to primary sources some of whom claim there never was any satisfactory radar plotting of flight #305 until it got south near PDX vrs. other primary sources who claim there was full radar coverage of flight #305 from liftoff at SEA all the way to Reno. Meanwhile we have Soderlind etal at NWA in Minneapolis who come with their "search map" for the FBI, who composed their map on the basis of something - incorporating radar data or not? Then we have Scott who presumably recants years later saying something like 'I think we were further east off V23 when Cooper bailed'. Then we have Mr. Rataczak who presumably was actually flying the plane who only recently backs Scott up saying 'yes we were east off V23' - and never mind that Rat's latter testimony may contradict his earlier testimony to some extent (covered here months ago at DZ). These are all Primary Sources. Sluggo now introduces a new primary source, at least new to this forum, an actual radar operator who presumably tracked flight #305 on the night of 11-24-71. Sluggo wont release the person's affiliation or even his location even though Sluggo knows this man's testimony goes directly to the credibility of other primary sources and the identification of the flight path itself. Why bring it up here at all as a playing card, if the card is then to be removed from the deck! ? Is this research or somebody's game of gotcha? Im not trying to coerce Sluggo into saying more than he wants to say or the 'radar operator' to go-public, but I do sometimes wonder how much of these things is just personal drama and stage acting as opposed to actual primary-source information ... because we have been down this road so many times before, with so many different actors. Maybe what we need is the Sluggo-Commission with Sluggo being sworn in and given the power of subpoena. All behind closed doors of course. I think we are 50% of the way there already. On the other hand we have money at Tina Bar. That breaks down into two possible scenarios - travel by water or travel by land. The former brings in the Washougal (suggested to the FBI by twpo consultants). No other water route was considered likely. The Washougal Theory requires #305 veer east off V23 which contradicts Sluggo's witness. The former scenario, travel by land, may imply Cooper survived or was found. That scenario is more consistent with 'the flight never left V23'. Another primary source says: "We lost track of the jets pursuing #305. We couldnt keep track of them. (see them on radar) We just did not have a reliable track on #305 or the boys at Minneapolis never would have come up with the search map they produced..." The money at Tina Bar is also a primary source. The money at Tina Bar did not arrive there because of radar tracking, or not. But the money suggests a time of placement which bears directly on possible routes - and that intersects with flight path, which intersects with ... veracity of radar tracking & plots. I will produce my witness if Sluggo produces his. Will Sluggo's witness and a $20 bill from the find tell the same story?

Yes, there is a still-living witness who was a radar operator following the flight. He says: “They were never significantly off of Victor-23.” He wishes to remain anonymous and does not want his name published. Will he allow his location to be cited, because as you well-know there are people who say your "witness" is not credible and quoting: "this is all bullshit". so a little background for your announcement might have been in order? You knew in advance this was going to be provocative so some provenance might have been in order? Or, maybe you do have a discovery which you and you alone (and 377) will keep from the world until time to use it as you see fit. I apologise for my arrogance in asking a simple question!

The lack of reply may mean you have hurt Sluggo's "feelings"; or he is just too busy too reply. The key to this is: there are some people who ask questions (with an idea already in mind) who dont really want answers. You have to taylor your response to the individual, but that formula may not be easily apparent. We have a lot of that around here - Maybe a review of the maps in play would be helpful at this point. But only Sluggo can do that so again .... wait for the magic moment. I have a feeling something is going on behind the scenes. Too many of the right people have suddenly vanished.

WHO WHAT WHEN WHERE HOW WHY ? That could be a CVA. Question: How many people/organisation had/have records of the Cooper hijacking?

Yes, there is a still-living witness who was a radar operator following the flight. He says: “They were never significantly off of Victor-23.” + NWA (now Delta) is still sitting on unpublished info, but I haven’t been able to get access to it. You know as well as I do there is more to this story -