georger

If the possibility of extreme weather suddenly surfaced, it would have been transmitted through all available means including sequence reports, voice messages on the VORTAC navigation system, and probably controller to pilot communications on the ATC system. Is there any evidence that this was done? Maybe. Possibility vs factability. Bohan reported it 'as it happened'. He presumably "filed a report". Obviously "the system" had no "possible warning". Let the Great Flung find the report? Should be easy for him! (instead of all the dancing around)

Cooper-related: Don't take this as God's truth, but didn't SeaTac restrict/shut down flights for a while during the time of the hijacking? Thought I heard something about this, but I wouldn't swear to it. read the thread - read the transcript - newcomer.

I can't imagine that the airport would have been shut down much (if any) before 305 landed, The closure IF T H E R E W A S O N E! occured during the refueling period with passengers wandering around out on the tarmak. Followjng passages apply (PI Transcript TRANSCRIPT T7: Reel #4 T7 TIME PERIOD 5:59 – 6:59 PM PST overlaps with section of T1.) CG: We’re closing this thing out so this thing is 3500 feet of runway. South 35 is Closed. GC: If we can get the people out of there well then we wouldn’t have to worry about Them. GC: Bill, would you feel better with these passengers on the other side of 16, on the other side of the runway? Al: Well I just saw a bus come out so wait a minute – GC: No, we haven’t ordered a bus across yet, Bill. I can get one out there though. Its waiting on Al Lee and he has to tell us. They are there waiting. I can see them. GC: Right away ground. 305 we’ve closed south 3500 feet of the other runway. Can you tell those people to walk across the runway? We’ve got airplanes clear of it. They wont be using that south end. Al: I have the gas tank here and the driver is not certain of the direction. He will require an escort at least part of the way is that possible? Over. OK. Part of the way. You can take him on the north-south taxiway down to the taxiway and then head him straight for the Airplane and it’s a straight shot over there and he can go straight out and you can drop him there. GC: Ok 10-4. P: And tell him to watch out for the passengers. They’re walking across there Now in the dark. GC: 10-4 P: 305. Did you count the fuel trucks on the way? P: Are you there Al? GC: Greyhound this is Alpha 3. I have a bus here and we’re going to take it over right next to 16 left and they can board there. GC: Alpha 3, and they are all there on the left side os the runway, or the east side …. ? GC: Alpha 3, we have closed the airport now. You can advise when you get all the passengers Clear and then we’ll start running a little more traffic. GC: Alpha 3, roger. GC: And 305 the fuel truck is on its way now, coming up to you. P: ok "GC: Alpha 3, we have closed the airport now." ! People here used to read the transcript! I think TIME PERIOD 5:59 – 6:59 includes the time slot 6:10 .... but I did not complete Kinderfarm!

The transcript says the airport was closed for a period -

good work.

wonderful

have clipped all the stuff this is a test . . .

The whole thing could be a tempest in a teapot. If your information is correct then it is Marla who made the first move (contacted the FBI) ? I wonder if somebody must have suggested she do that ? Thanks.

She had to know this would happen. A story like hers doesnt sit untouched. I agree, she opened the Family up by accusing two of her Uncles, then you have the mother trying to back up Marla! questions and credibility will come into play. I dont know what the facts are. I dont know that anyone here knows the facts. Who went public first? Marla, the FBI, or someone else? It is a fact two or three people were investigating her story (and the family) for at least a year prior to the FBI having the case and then the public attention; and no one here said anything about it until it became public - obviously the FBI has known for at least a year or more, and then a year or more prior to that during which time private investigators worked, and nobody had gone public. This apparently has had a long gestation. Who went public, first? How did this get out to the public? Why did Blevins start literally "howling" about it after the fact, as if it was his case when he had no prior connection to it whatever ? Its bizarre. It seems obvious Marla knew it was being investigated for at least a year or two prior to the FBI having it, and she said nothing to the press ? Maybe one of the investigators leaked it first -

I think it's unfortunate she was run off this board. I don't think it was because you or anyone else was asking questions about her story. She's been very open to responding. But, I think people harassing her son, her mother and ex-husband drove her off. Marla can take care of herself, but her family didn't sign up for this. She had to know this would happen. A story like hers doesnt sit untouched. She should never have gone public. Maybe others did first ? If Bevins wants to try and trace something, trace that - but I wouldnt rely on his account for anything, sorry to have to say? I guess its "personal" with me at this point, based on performance history -

Since this has been discussed to death several times already (see the "Sailshaw Series"), it is being repeated only for the benefit of the people with a short memory, no memory at all, or don't want to remember in the first place. In his book on the Cooper hijacking, George Nuttal includes a facsimile of a letter from his co-researcher (see page 95) that has the following quotation from Ralph Himmelsbach: "There was a cloud cover below them when they passed over Vancouver that was so thick they [i.e., the pilot and co-pilot] couldn't see landmarks or even the glow of city lights." So who are you going to believe, Only you are discussing it to death. Only you are repeating it! Only you needs to repeat it! (to salvage your wrong fact) George Nuttal's facsimile of a letter from his co- researcher that quotes Ralph Himmelsbach, that quotes the pilots: Are Abraham and Moses in there somewhere, according to Mark, Luke, and John, and Nuttal's co-researcher. To say you are stubborn is an understatement. To say others INTERVIEWED the crew many times over, is the truth. SA Larry Carr gave one account. So, you have your single source three to four times removed. Others have their sources, which are direct testimony in interviews from the principles who were there. Period. You dont even leave any latitude for a raindrop squeaking through your net of solid damned certainty! This has clearly become an obsession with you - for personal reasons. For one thing Robert99, how many people flew over Portland and the vicinity that night! Count em!! How many people were on the ground looking up that night, for one reason or another. You make this sound like George Nuttal's book is the sole witness to existence that night. Not true. You dont have a sole contract with the truth here - sorry. So, at the very least we have a direct conflict in testimony, not to mention analysis. Your absolutism is no solution?

just like Rataczak was able to see - as he was approaching the Vancouver and Portland area. They crossed the river East of Portland over the Trout airport area. Ask him yourself. back to that now - eh? Jo its been suggested before, I know you will deny it until your dying day, but could Duane have made all of this up ? Just filled your head with SPAM. ? Then at the end was trying to say: "Oh forget it! Im sorry." ???

I'm sorry Georger. I saw the point and agree. It was just my sick sense of humor. I had just mentioned seeing stars and the moon. You showed back some pictures of some stars and the moon. I was thinking, "OK. What kind of response does this call for? Oh! Yeah. I'll just say, yes, those were the stars and moon I was talkin 'bout!" When I don't make any sense, there's a good chance it's some kind of joke. BTW, just for the heck of it I did a solar flare search long ago ... nothing in 71 of any merit, not until August of 72 ... whatever that might have to do with the price of eggs in Spain ? http://www.solarstorms.org/SRefStorms.html

Yes, but......now Georger, pretend that you had not added this little ps. After looking at the images, I was just about to respond, "Yeah! Those are the ones." I just didn't want that thought to be wasted. I just dont understand what you are saying, Hominid. It just occurs to me that someone with a background in surveying might have had an advantage under the conditions of that night, if he knows anything about astronomy, and the more he knows (if he can apply it quickly) it might give him an advantage on the stairs in addition to other clues he might have had, just before bailing ... its just a thought on my part, not even a theory ... looking north on the stairs he can confirm his angle/direction the plane is headed etc ... its just a thought nothing more.

Jo if you are reading this, your previous post just Poofed! Either you deleted it or it poofed on its own? It happened within the space of several seconds. I replied to it, clicked reply,and poof you post was no longer there. Did you just delete your prior post? I have always been able to click people's posts with the underlined clicky feature, and they work for me. Bruce's underlined url clicky works for me right now. What I meant and cant do, is to CREATE the underlined url clicky here, and have it work. They just never are accepted for some reason so I stopped trying to make them long ago and just paste urls in text form instead ...

attached posted earlier - posted again. ps: One of the elements of the Marla story was that the uncle had worked as a surveyor. That has been documented. That caught my attention ... Im sure you understand the potential implications of this ..

Well that's easy. He just has to provide the 20s for proof. This really is getting a bit comical. Cooperlites by the week/box ten per dozen and cheaper than sand. ESPN will be covering it next! Now that FOX is.

I have never been able to get this clicky to work reliably so just skip it - others seem to have the touch, or luck, or the right connection ?

from your work what do you think Cooper could see of the sky around and above him?

from your work what do you think Cooper could see of the sky around and above him in various places?

Icing was mentioned as a contributing factor long ago ....... and passed through the human filter to come to kitchen tables .... processed by "experts". You are trying to control what canot be controled, in any event. Guru and others pointed out long ago that the period he passed through 'freezing' conditions was brief, perhaps critical, but still brief. But, it is part of the old FBI scenario for him not surviving. What else is missing? This is old news -

Thanks. BTW, a meteorologist, Sean Potter, did a piece in a publication named Weatherwise, not too long ago. You can find his piece at: http://www.weatherwise.org/Archives/Back% 20Issues/2011/November-December% 202011/retrospect-full.html Sean comments about the week of the hijacking, as follows: 'On the rainy morning of November 24, 1971—the day before Thanksgiving - An area of low pressure, centered near the Gulf of Alaska begins to move onshore in the Pacific Northwest, bringing heavy rain to coastal areas ... ' '... Around the time Cooper jumped from plane, at an altitude of 10,000 feet, the pilots of Flight 305 radioed that the outside air temperature was −7°C (19.4°F).' '... A series of storms was affecting the Pacific Northwest coast with rain during the last week of November 1971 and brought heavy snowfall to the mountains. Precipitation totals of eight to nine inches were reported along the Oregon coast, with four to five inches in the Willamette Valley and seven to 10 inches along the Cascade Range. ' '... The heaviest amounts—three to four inches over a 24-hour period—came on November 26, as authorities were forced to call off their search due to rain and fog. Snowfall totals from the storm included 53.5 inches at the headquarters of Crater Lake National Park and 56.6 inches at Santiam Pass in central Oregon. The heavy rains caused many streams and rivers to overflow their banks.' Is it possible that some people confused the day of the hijacking with what followed beginning the 26th? Dona Elliot at Ariel specifically? Several people have speculated that Cooper used the storm to cover his tracks and make his escape, or that he even knew of the approaching storm and picked the 24th before the storm hit ?

The records support the idea of lots of cloud cover on the 24th and 25th. The search and heavy snows came after. Account doesn't support the idea of strong weather on hijack date. I agree. Little to support a formal designation of bad or severe weather. However, broken clouds in the Vancouver area now a possibility vrs the 'totally dark and impossible' scenario Robt99 has held to - Likewise, one of the original goals in this thread was to determine direction of drift. Some drift other than to the NE as Larry originally thought, now possible ?? Not sure. Likewise, no particular weather driven impediments to a stable drop-survival scenario for Cooper, based on actual data. Anecdotes seem to be just that ... do not confirm life threateneing conditions for either a jumper or person on the ground at least not at the time of the drop.

with some luck we all will - but this is of the lowest priority for these folks - and we all have personal lives too! I could present some of their feedback already, but have agreed to hold that in reserve. Now, if someone wants to re-interview Rataczack or somebody else in the meantime - go for it!

I see nothing in the data presented, or anyone's analysis of that data to date, which explains the so-called anomolies I presented, to my satisfaction. That is my personal dilemma in this. ok. There are two other people working this problem in the background - both NOAA meteorologists. Hopfully they will find data (or something) to add more clarity to this - I fully understand Farflung's impatience and lack of belief - And one person, a pilot, who knows the Bohan story personally (a helluva lot better than I do), refuses to come here. Its been 40 years. A few more weeks isnt going to change anything? I really suggest patience, if I can!