georger

hERE'S THE REAL STORY!

Take this as you want. That's exactly the response anyone from Pierce or South King County would give. Not someone from another state, even if they had visited here a lot. This comes from a resident, IMHO. If you asked anyone in those places I named, anyone who had lived here for a while, that's exactly what they would say. Twenty minutes. Also...the reference to 'it doesn't take that long' could assume the hijacker had driven south through Tacoma on Interstate 5 more than a few times. This statement hints experience in the short trip itself, as if he had done it previously. I think I just said that and probably did it twice for emphasis. Not that it will deflect you for one nano-second,but the quote you attribute to me above, was Ckret's. Moreover I did not post it. Smokin99 did. You never seem to get anything right - not that that matters in the slightest given your agenda. All agendae are good! It means there is still life somewhere on the planet and allis not lost!

Well then I don't know how much more I can give you. I posted the handwritten note and Ckret's post about the McChord reference. Interpret it as you will, but whether he said what was written in the note or the crew said it to him -- from the real-time documented evidence and the FBI agent's statement, (eta: and the transcript that Farf cited) it seems pretty obvious, at least to me, that he was aware of the base and the distance from Tacoma, and appears to have thought that that at least two of the chutes were to come from there. I guess one can choose to believe that the conversations were crew manipulations to appease him or hurry up the ground crew - just my humble opinion, but I'm not buying it.

From "the chute is missing from the plane" you assume "he took the chute" ? Maybe he ate it! ? Maybe he tossed it out the door? Maybe maybe maybe maybe . . . True, then I guess we can assume he fell out of the plane rather than jumping while we are at it. Correct. Fell with chute on. Ki (arabic for because) last seen he had the chute on. Whatever guess we make we must assume a fairly high probability he fell "with chute". Here's our dillemma spelled with two ll's and two em's. We are stretched between extremes. One the one extreme we assume peaches are ballbearings - becausae Blevins commands it! On the other extreme we must assume all socalled facts in this forum are - circularised. That is assumed in order that they exist at all, in the first order. I can provide source and reference.

From "the chute is missing from the plane" you assume "he took the chute" ? Maybe he ate it! ? Maybe he tossed it out the door? Maybe maybe maybe maybe . . .

well then read it again: quote: Cooper never made the request that the chutes not come from McCord, his only demand was two back and two front chutes. In fact he assumed they were coming from McCord from a mistake the pilot made in relaying information to Tina. At 5:15 Tina called the cockpit to find out why they had not landed (Cooper wanted everything by 5 PM), the pilot told Tina they were still waiting for the front chutes from McCord. When Tina relayed this to Cooper his response was, "McCord is only 20 minutes from Tacoma, it doesn't take that long." 5:15 seems purdy firm, Pilgrim. Tina said "McChord". Cooper said "Tacoma". Brought Tacoma up all on his own in response to Tina saying McChord. You have better evidence? Actually, you might like Michael Taylor's version better! http://www.thefreelibrary.com/...UMPING...-a084004103

skyjack71 Mar 4, 2009, 10:01 PM Post #8407 of 32413 (4625 views) Registered: Nov 12, 2006 Posts: 3989 Tacoma was very important...and I believe I have told why before. It regarded an investment in some commercial real estate that went sour in the 60's. Two individuals where involved in this - I gave the FBI the information, but they never checked it out. Also another connection with Tacoma was a step son. Remember this - when you look out that window you not only see Tacoma - you see McNeil Island Federal Prison. They fall within the same area from an airplane window. If he had pointed out something as insignifcant as Steillacoon where McNeil Federal Prison is located - it would have been like a Beacon Light into the past of Cooper. After all he was smart like a Fox, right. On our trip to Seattle these are the things he told me and the things he pointed out. The prison was just information in passing - I did not know he had been a prior resident at that time. The FBI has had this information since 1996.

How do we know that for sure? He did mention Tacoma. Georger, did Cooper mention Tacoma and McCord while landing in Seattle? if so how did he see it on the right side of the plane? Frankly I dont know at the moment - my memories for these fine details is fading, frankly - and they seem to change with every new asset joining this case. If and when I get time I will try to reconnect all of these dots in light of the latest-greatest researcher to join the chase - but my enthusiasm for this is fading fast - thank Christ!

How do we know that for sure? He did mention Tacoma. As far as I know the hijacker never mentioned McChord AFB. Nothing about it in the transcripts, etc. 'We're over Tacoma now...' is supposedly what he said to Mucklow while they were circling over the Puget Sound area. agree on the first - where in the Transcript does he say 'We're over Tacoma now...' ?

The only caveat I would mention is Cooper knew about McCord Air Force base . How do we know that for sure? He did mention Tacoma.

Over the weekend, Bruce Smith had a medical emergency and was hospitalised. Bruce has asked me to announce that he is recovering but will be absent for several days on this forum - I will share further info as I receive it. Thanks. G.

Let's start backwards and work forward. No Robt let's not. Its not personal just a factual time constraint - Correlation is not Causation. Personal Opinion and Guess are not Correlation!

Georger, I don't know if you were jesting or not. Farflung explained it in his post. If I understand correctly, the Toutle on the old chart marked a rail stop that is no longer used. I think probably just the official location of "Toutle" changed. Still people living around the old location. Precisely and yes Ive been reading everyone's posts. Farflungs included. I am suggesting the same thing. As evidenced by "Toutle Lake" vs Old Toutle vs New Toutle. My family made those references. They were residents of Oregon and Washington in the 1970s amd 80s and it meant something to them, apparently. Several members of my extended family hunted that area and knew the guys who found the placard - I am suggesting JT might know something about the history of Toutle - his wife might - residents of Toutle would and several of them used to read this forum. Moreover, there is some level of standard error in these old FBI pre-gps maps; I doubt that has anything to do with the position of Toutle as an issue of historical changes (railroad line closings and whatnot). There are millions of example of towns and villages closing/moving due to railroad decisions. I dont think Robt99 is suggesting the FP is off due to a wholesale shift in the whole map the FBI used including V23, as evidenced by different locations for Toutle. This only concerns Toutle(s) - not V23 or the FP. However, anyone wishing to place the placard with respect to Toutle should be advised of a difference in positions, 1971 vs now. Surely Himmelsbach a longtime resident of the area knew Toutle Lake vs Toutle ? ???

There is no black and white answer, and Farflung's theory is no better than mine. You have two chutes in front of you. You know SOMETHING about putting one on and using it. Which do you pick? You could say it was an eenie-meenie-miney-mo choice...or you could say a moment of thought went into a decision that meant LIFE OR DEATH. Chances are, Cooper at least considered which one to use. If he was military, the military chute was the obvious choice. If he was a sport jumper, he might not have known that the NB-6 was actually a better choice, and may have picked the sport. Hard to say. His lack of choice on the sport makes me think Cooper either had limited sport experience, no sport, or military only. Having the NB-6 delivered, as I said, could have been sheer luck for Cooper. There is no way to prove your point any better than mine. Random choice? Or bit of thought first before reaching for one of them? Because of the life and death thing, I vote 'bit of thought'. well, Farflungs theory of evidence is better than yours because he has a different higher standard for proof than you have, and for what he will accept as a "causal connection". You dont appear to know the difference. What you would supposedly know and supposedly do (you say) is not an adequate model for what and who Cooper was, and nobody who knows the difference is going to take you seriously on this no matter how many times and how many years you state your claims. Sorry, but that just the way it is -

Looking at the two charts, in the Toutle area, it is obvious that the Toutle circle moved with respect to nearby landmarks, namely the river courses. The moment Toutle came up my detector went off - Toutle, Toutle Lake, the Olde Toutle, the Newe Toutle. How many Toutles are there? Did one close and another open up? Is it a group of villages - the Toutle Group ? I dunno. But Ive heard references to all of the above during my life. Blevins? Do you know. You live in Washington! JT?

The discrepancy was 2.5 nautical miles when abeam of the Toutle symbol. The above numbers can explain about 2.0 to 2.25 nautical miles of the discrepancy. . Which may be within the standard deviation for points on the maps themselves?

where have you been! That happned two-three-four years ago?

Farflung: I see your point about 'what if' Cooper had been provided with two sport chutes. But the fact remains he did pick the military chute, for some reason. You are right. It could have been chance, or maybe not. No, God damnit, you dont get the point! Farf's point is: Cooper had no input into the chutes offered (brought on board) in the first place. Likewise, once the available options were brought on board there is nothing in the record that Cooper said or did which proves his choice was anything other than random, from a 50-50 choice. Farf is saying you are reading too much into what actually happened and the random choices available. And, that the choices available are actually non- weighted. That means, that one chute was military and one was civilian do not of themselves prove the choice Cooper made. Farf's point is: The choices of chute do not by themselves certify any particular background for Cooper. Had Cooper specified in the beginning he would only accept "military" chutes, then there is some cause to wonder however even that is not sufficient or amounts to proof. Because, Cooper might have been asking for military chutes simply on because of some thought on his part, that military chutes would be more reliable somehow. Likewise, there is apparently nothing in the record Cooper said or did which addreses the choice he made, if it was anything other than random. What Farf is addressing is your long established habit of jumping to conclusions the available information does not warrant or support, violating logic, and your ignoring or refusing to admit logical possibilities you dont seem to see or claim do not exist as logical choices. It is strange how you "mix and match" things and ideas! You will say, for example, Cooper's choice of chutes "proves" a military connection greater than mere random choice between two choices (50-50), while on the other hand two guys in a trailer over weekend plus other supporting data does not add up to "Gay". On the one hand you are blind. On the other hand you see Jesus in the Toast simply due to Toast being presented, and are even willing to cite the scripture spoken from the damned toast - and THEN examine for us if that airy disk spoken wasa lie or not! I see that kind of thing on psych wards! Farf is trying to give you good advice. I wonder how \ long he will hold out because I know you have the power to outlast him! Your motivations are far different from his - Farf knows that too!

Quoteand for some reason the cloth on the seat had been changed because the other two are much darker, perhaps the FBI took that piece of cloth? Quote We all know Cooper got away, got arrested with outstanding warrants at a traffic stop in Podvulle Arkansas, and spent a stretch in prison, never to be connected to the Cooper hijacking because: there was no way to connect dots in 1971-72-73-74 and by 1980 the case was long closed and dead. Did Cooper ever enjoy his money? Probably not. Tina Bar seems to offer that possibility. Slipped the surly bonds of earth and flew away on an SSI card. We need to be searching for Prisoner Number: 5474383353BN - 3846436538VO-ASD5958464984 in cell 18E in Franco-Mudhut. Or, to put it in modern Stadard Oil parlance: "the bitch got away."

My understanding is that Cooper moved to the window seat when he ordered Mucklow to sit next to him in the aisle seat. Then he placed the paper bag on the deck at his feet, and the briefcase on the middle seat between them. Once the plane was on the ground, I think he had Mucklow lower all the window shutters in the rear cabin. where is your understanding from ? binomial function on an infinite string of maybes? Maybe its not that simple?

The easiest way to do it is just to highlight the entire url then click on the url button. Either way works. This way folks can see where the link is going to without having to hover over it. Smokin, what url button? Where?

and here are some cabin dimensions -

There are THREE seats showing in that photograph. Note the three towels, or whatever they are, covering the tops of the seats and judge how wide each seat is from the towels. I see them now.

You do have to be behind somebody to have them "looked back at me"... It sounds to me as if you have not talked to this gentleman personally. You cannot trust anything third partes say!

If the money delivery claim by Almstad is so far off, and he has deliberately lied about it (even if he WAS on the flight) then using him as a possible witness to ID the hijacker from pictures now is also shaky. You know how it is. Mistakes are understandable, and forgivable maybe. But an outright lie makes anything else you say difficult to believe. Like this, sort of: Quote Several have talked to Almstad. All decribe a nice gentleman willing to help but not even certain at first what city he boarded the plane at, or that one stew had dark hair vs another being a blond... and the like. Then later as the conversations developed details came back gradually ... Sad to say - the 'dark haired person could have been a man or a woman' ... Not the certainty that JT has described.