georger

Sorry about messing up the format. Not intentional. Back to Criminology 101. These were what is known in the trade as "drops" or "plants". These apparently innocent items left behind are intentionally left to steer the investigation in a way the perpetrator wishes. The narrow black tie was to indicate a BYU student prank on Thanksgiving holiday vacation. The pin was to involve McCoy and 'da boys'. McCoy couldn't explain the pin and had to swap it out. The FBI supervisor got the job, so Mac bought a tie clasp new, himself, of a specific design to change the drop back to Weber. These are the facts as they happened, not idle speculation about phony evidence. Moe quatrains from Knosstradamus aka Col Sanders.

10:1 its already in production -

Cool web site though. amazing site - thanks! I found my first chemistry and erector sets.

and in fact more product stampings have been found on the FBI's tie clasp - on the clasp area - see attached. Clear as day. But no similar product numbers are visible on the same area of the nonFBI JCP clasp, at least not yet. See attached. Im going to hold further comment pending more photo analysis - see photos attached. they are very nice! BTW! EITHER KNOSS OF JO SCREWED UP THE PAGE FORMAT AGAIN - PLEASE UNDO IT ! Nice pics! I wish we could see the back side of the tie clip, I believe that is where everything is, see attached photo. K = Karat KP = Karat Plumb (exact amount of gold) K.P. = Karat Plate GF = Gold Filled (heavy plating), usually has a fraction, i.e., 1/20 10K GF GS = Gold Shell HGE = Heavy Gold Electroplat I could be wrong but I think the edge printing on the pearl housing (FBI's) is under the plating which would mean itwas a feature on the cating mold or stamped just after the casting process prior to plating. The plating seems to have filled the low area in the print stamping? Another thing that strikes me is that nice reservoir for things to collect in, surrounding the faux pearl. Maybe a few skin cells in there from the user? You can see stuff in that crease. I will attach a photo - Nice new photos from Farflung also to go over. More later. The nonFBI set came from a foreign country - not Canada or Mexico. I hope its not a kockoff! I dont thnk so but not 100% sure it isnt - that needs to be addresed. More later -

and in fact more product stampings have been found on the FBI's tie clasp - on the clasp area - see attached. Clear as day. But no similar product numbers are visible on the same area of the nonFBI JCP clasp, at least not yet. See attached. Im going to hold further comment pending more photo analysis - see photos attached. they are very nice! BTW! EITHER KNOSS OF JO SCREWED UP THE PAGE FORMAT AGAIN - PLEASE UNDO IT !

Obviously georger and I were incorrect in assuming this mass produced item which was clipped on a massed produced tie which was around mass produced matches and ... Firstly, the FBI's Cooper JCP tie clasp shows a stamp. Tom never mentioned this, or Im missing it on his website. See the attached. Maybe it reads '18K G' or something like that? But the markings are obvious. Secondly, you can see what appears to be a similar marking (I think you can), on the non FBI JCP 18k Gold set I furnished photos of. The positions of the markings on the two clasps may not be identical. See attached comparison photo- The nonFBI set is 18K Gold. A strike & solution test confirms that. However, to my knowledge neither Tom or the FBi have ever mentioned doing any tests to confirm if their JCP clasp is 18K gold ? Cooper's clasp looks slightly worn in the neck area compared to the nonFBI clasp, especially where the neck joins the pearl housing. And the castings of the two clasps may be different? I have noted the area affected on the attached photo - There will be more coming on these issues, I hope. Lastly, when the issue of right vs left hand clasp mountings first surfaced I wondered if this was simply an artifact of image processing by different authors. Specifically mirror imaging of original FBI photos, and at least in one example that appears to be the case. In the composite photo attached, photos 1-3 are official FBI photos taken directly from their websites. Photo #4 was taken from a Google image search from someone else's website. Clearly photo-4 is a mirror image version of an original FBI photo. Photo-4 shows a tie clasp with its orientation changed due to mirror imaging by the author who posted it. Likewise, it is clear someone at the FBI had the tie clasp off and then remounted it in different positions, for their official photos! Thjis leaves no way of knowing what position the tie clasp was in when mounted to its artifact, as found by the FBi team in Reno! Maybe there is an FBI photo somewhere that authenticates how and in what position the tie clasp was found, on the plane at Reno, (if it even matters!) ? But, the FBI official photos show the clasp mounted in two permutations of the position normal. Funny! My guess is the FBI keeps the tie and the clasp in separate evidence folders (because they are two distinct items), then mounts the clasp to the tie for official photo work, and removes the clasp back to its evidence folder after photo work is done -

I agree, the clasp, tie and Skychef matches were all available in the tens of thousands across the country thus proving nothing again. . You mean this JC Penny tie clasp & set ? 18K gold plate Mother of pearl accessory set. Lot No. redacted. 1960-68 production. Available in 'REDACTED" I will add another for comparison. And another ...

What seems probable to me...is that the tie clip was taken off the tie at some point and replaced by a right-handed FBI agent facing the tie. Just saying..... . Tom has clearly taken the clip off for his sampling -

Himmelsbach did say (in the early hours) that Cooper might be a "food service worker". That is documented. Himmelsbach mentioned Cooper's dress, not Sky Chef matches.

Did I miss anything? This is way better than discussing Cooper’s seat, good call. A few slight alterations. Cooper must be individual, without standing out. Whoever he was, he had an excellent surgeon.

QuoteIt wasn’t a left handed tie clasp, it was a left handed shirt OR a woman’s blouse!!! Why didn’t I see this before? It’s all so clear now. Quote OR....somebody put the shirt on inside-out![Reply] Instructions to putting a tie clip on THE Reich WAY UBER ALLES! http://www.ehow.com/way_6169443_tie-clip- instructions.html We will cover opening left handed match books in the next chapter. (under Military vs Civilian rights & ceremonies & tells of the aforementioned.).

Forget about the matches. Until about the late 1960s, airline meal service usually included a small packet of four cigarettes and a book of matches. Sky Chef probably still has a warehouse full of matches from that time frame. Really? You mean there is one big Sky Chef in the world, with one really big Sky Chef Warehouse ? All vendors feed that one central humongous ? No regional warehouses or offices being supplied and populated by different sets of workers and vendors? The same matchbook covers being used everywhere at all locations - simultaneously - fed by one vendor with Oz at the controls ... ? Are the matchbooks segregated by left-hand vs right-hand matchbooks, all made in one place by the one matchbook Creator? What special equations known only by one shaman are involved? Who put the small packets of four cigareetas together, where? Did OZ run that too? Was Oz left handed or more like an octopus? Did Dame Miriam Gilbert sing the soprano part?

The matchbook cover didn't list Portland so let's speculate that this might (just might) correlate with DB coming in on another flight. Well, alls good until one realizes that the matchbook cover is not an accurate representation of whether Portland had a Sky chef or not. Or, maybe it is accurate but accurate in a different way - Maybe there is a reason this cover thing does not include PDX? Maybe not all Skychef match books were made/printed by the same source, but regionally? Maybe this has nothng to do with time per se but distance, region, and multiple makers each with different instructions, even during the same time period? Is there a printer's logo on this matchbook cover? Some expert collector would know all about that. This matchbook has a history. Here are two examples both from the 70s - the Universal Match Co NY cover does list PDX. So far I havent found a photo of the inside of the Ohio cover.

I know about the left-handed thing, and I did read 99's comments. Ken Christiansen was left-handed, but you probably knew that already. No worries. I know how it is at Dropzone. People here like to argue over silly points and ignore the testimony of actual, living witnesses. Bernie Geestman's sister Dawn identified the tie tac as one belonging to Ken Christiansen. Whether you accept her testimony or not, she is on record about it. She was absolutely SURE on it, and at the time she made the identification, she had no clue why I was really sitting there in her kitchen. There is a third witness to her statements: Her grandson Jonathan was right there listening to everything. Plus her interview was sound recorded. Wait until the Seattle FBI gets an earful of her entire interview, which they will very soon. I'm sure they will find it interesting. Yeah...I know. You don't NEED witnesses to solve a criminal case. (*laughs*) Common sense is also an asset sadly lacking on this thread sometimes. People generally lie when they have a reason. I found absolutely no reason to doubt Dawn's word. When she found out we were checking out KC for the Cooper case, she wasn't even surprised about it. Ah - Eureka! I know about the left-handed thing. Thing | Define Thing at Dictionary.com a material object without life or consequence or animacy; an inanimate object, concept, or personna 2. some entity, object, or creature of casual significance that is not or cannot be restore to significance, 3. something held in derision, eg a bad idea voited on by by members of the board.... etc. reflecting the underlying belief something better is possible or exists ... That pretty much sums up the Blevins-thing.

Well Marla said all of this too, and more!

http://huntfordbcooper.com/d-b-cooper-evidence-found Hmmm... AS for the matches, according to the below post with attached article (Smokin post 26463 Sept 1, 2011) Portland did have a sky chef(s) restaurant...guess they just didn't rate on the ol matchbook listing thing. Or maybe (just maybe) that matchbook cover predates DB by several years. Sad.. I guess Geoffrey doesn't read the world's foremost forum on DB Cooper trivia aka the Dorkzone.... http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4181311#4181311 (Eugene Register-Guard Sept 20, 1966) Would be easy enough to check to see if the chain was still operating in Portland in 1971. I'd bet my vintage treadmill / coat rack that it was. not much room left on that matchbook (inside) for new major additions. Probably tens of thousands had already been printed - revisions at the next redesign/printing ... just a conjecture. No idea if Geof reads DZ or not. Would if someone advised him of something signficant here. Geof is in another better league. Five star AAAAA class.

Gravity is responsible for Cooper hijacking says, shrink - read it here before it melts! http://huntfordbcooper.com/the-missing-ingredient-gravity

Brown paper bags - Yellow cloth bag with Pink Tinge - See it here! http://huntfordbcooper.com/the-mystery-of-the-yellow-bag-with-the-pink-tinge

Gulp….. I had never thought of a spouse putting the tie clasp on Cooper. Gosh, now I feel kinda creepy. Plus he could have put the thing on from the left save to save time too. Both good points and worthy of inclusion on the DB Cooper thread, what was I thinking? http://huntfordbcooper.com/d-b-cooper-evidence-found

The message is the messanger is the message in your case, you fool. Take some good advice. Never take advice. No point in changing anything! It is comedy the likes of which weathermen and small news anchors, and bird watchers, and dinosaur bone illustrators, and FBI agents - have never seen! Keep up the good work, tigre.

I'm telling you...the hijacker was local. South King, North Pierce counties. Maybe even Kitsap county. One of them. Take your pick. That bit he added about 'it doesn't take that long' strongly implies he had made that trip on Interstate 5 a few times. Take that as you wish. Farflung: IMHO the hijacker's sudden statement giving the time it takes, plus the fact that he says 'it doesn't take that long...' implies he KNEW both things. He knew instantly it's twenty minutes between Tacoma and the AFB. That is correct. And how did he know enough to add 'it doesn't take that long' ? HOW? Because he was from Ohio, or because he knew already? And how would he know that traffic would allow you to make that trip in just 20 minutes? Seattle and Tacoma are major cities. I believe he was a local. Doesn't sound like a lot of thought went into his response to the being-late-on-the-chutes thing. Cooper just HAD to let them know they couldn't BS him on how long it would take to get the chutes. A slight slip on the part of the hijacker, perhaps? another Eureka moment for Blevins. Came up just a few days ago and VIOLA! Archmedes Blevins scores again. Marvelous. You should be paying us by the hour, Blevins. Or is yours a Medicade moment? And: "the being-late-on-the-chutes thing". You think in blocks, like Cooper. The "thing" or "thingie". Takes one to know one. Hijacker I mean. Anoher EUREKA MOMENT!

I've seen the will. No note in it to his brother. Lyle has never spoken to any of the 305 crew. Only Bill Rataczak was actually interviewed for the book. Umm...just a guess, but my gut tells me he wasn't involved in the hijacking except as one of the victims. Some in the Seattle FBI think KC is a good suspect (according to SA Fred Gutt) while others in the Seattle office think there are better suspects. Gutt has said twice now that KC has never been checked out by the FBI because they think he doesn't fit the description. Marvel didn't do the Cooper comic. Question: Do you make this stuff up as you go along, or do you work from a central file? Why have you got ME tagged in your reply to Knoss!? Knoss made the post not me. Tag your replies to the people who made the posts who you are replying to - its a small thing. For the sake of accuracy.

OK. You have forced my to release more of the real truth. The real source of the name "Dan Cooper" was from Richard McCoy when he gave Duane Weber is new identity paperwork. Mac was an avid comic book collector, and was even personal friends with the Marvel Comics creator. Mac had an amazing comic book collection which included the early Dan Cooper editions. Writing your own history of the world, according to Knarp ? What "early Dan Cooper editions". ? What has this got to do with Marvel!? More phoney bs. Get help 'Knarp'. Or is it Col. Sanders wannabe today? What and who tomorrow? Mennonite-Amish comic book editor, with a plate of KFC and 30 lottery tickets pass the KFC?

What HE said... Welcome back, Bruce. Georger: Mess? What mess? I'm the happiest guy in the world right now. Our Young Writers Project winner Katy Onus gets published next week. Julia Broussard's ruthless Revenge Story comes out not long afterward. Cooper is a sideline to me. Interesting and curious, but certainly doesn't pay the office rent. In ten days the Big Package of Information will be delivered to the Seattle FBI office, along with copies to KOMO News. Then it becomes their problem. I'm curious as to the final results, yes. Willing to dedicate as much time to it as in the past, no. You might want to consider travel plans to Auburn, WA this coming August. Especially, Farflung...who I think should come out of the identity closet. Metaphorically speaking, of course. Witnesses or expert opinions on subjects are often enhanced by knowing the source (and the background) of the opinion. That was a challenge. As Kurt Russell said in the film The Thing: Did you say something? Is he baaaaaaaack? We reakky must move on, Blaveins. All chakras aside, there are other needy Cooperites waiting to have their claims heard and papers filed. You sir have consumed enough of our time and resources. So Good luck! Dont let the faith healers bite. See you in Egypt soon, next to the Book of the Dead.

Dont threaten this THREAD! with losing traffic, except by your continual bloviation now years old. Who appointed you caretaker here? Your protestation is as empty as your program. At the end of the day all you have is a religion and the church is empty. And you're too old to re-enlist. Helluva a mess aint it!