georger

I like Jerry's optimism. He is a miner. Hope he finds the DBC mother lode. 377 anyone heard anything about Amazon?

yes that is one of them. check your mail -

__________________________________________________ I'm still not done with this one, Blevins. You found out after 5 minutes of idle chatter with your video participants at Ariel this past November where the Amboy chute was located? That's total crap, Blevins. Bruce and I drove around Amboy for a whole day, knocking on a lot of doors, and lots of these people had lived in Amboy for years -- all were very nice and cordial and would have let us look around on their property if we had asked. Not one -- not a single Amboy resident we talked to -- knew the location of the Amboy chute. Several weren't even aware of it. Even the owner of the Ariel Tavern, Dona Elliott, didn't really know. And if anyone should know, I'd think it would be her. She thought she knew -- we went to where she said to go to find the Amboy chute (it wasn't all that far from the Ariel Tavern, as the crow flies, actually). We went, and after knocking on several doors, we got nothing. The neighbors in the vicinity that Dona directed us to -- some of them were elderly -- knew nothing about the Amboy chute. So, who am I to believe -- someone who is casually talking to people at Ariel (not Amboy, I might add), as he is shooting a video of passers by, or a couple of guys who actually went to Amboy, who actually did some research, who actually knocked on doors. I'm sure the information is out there, but it is not common knowledge, as you purport. I'm sure the FBI has that information, and others do as well. I know you're off base here, Blevins. How do I know? Because I did the actual footwork and research on this one -- and you're busted, you got caught red-handed -- confusing your assumptions with the real facts and making outlandish claims and statements that just simply aren't true. I don't expect anything different -- because this is the way you are. MeyerLouie I will repeat (for once): I just think its a little strange if someone thinks Amboy is where Cooper landed, then its weird to sign on immediately to JT's search in the wrong place, ? Why waste the time? To be correct: I never said I knew where the Amboy chute find was. What I said (its in the thread) was, there were several newspaper articles following the announcement of the find, both articles had photos. Then a third article appeared with a small Google map of the general area. I know I saved the Google map and can share it again. I think I also saved the photos showing the road into the field where the chute was found, just off the edge of the road the owner was making-widening. One of the photos has the owner and one of his children in it. Problem is: when I went back later to try and find those articles with photos, I could not find them and I did a long search. I found that a bit strange. Maybe the articles were taken down? Or, maybe those articles are still out there for Snowmman or Smokin99 to find? I just don't know. I will look tomorrow for the photos if I saved them. One of those original articles (for whoever might search) is rather long - at least two pages. It not only explained the find and had several photos, it also contained the comments of several locals and an aviation historian trying to account for who might have left the chute. Let me see what I can find tomorrow or the next day. But I know I have the map and I seem to remember I sent Bruce (or someone) a copy of it long ago? ps: here's one of the maps taken straight from one of the articles. Turns out I have another map that was published which has gps coordinates on it! Do I post it too? The map attached may be one of the maps I gave Bruce ??? I think it was Bruce ???

Once I started asking around it didn't take five minutes before I found out where they discovered the chute. Maybe people are just more willing to talk to me than you perhaps. In case you didn't notice, I spoke to practically everyone at Ariel last year while making that hour-long video. Crazy It's not a Big Secret. LOL. Every real Cooper fan in Ariel and Amboy knows where it was found. Count me in, Jerry! Romping in the woods with Cooper sleuths is my idea of a good time. Let me know where and when. Same here. And I will be the most active searcher if you wish. . Let's see if this makes BK sense ? You believe the Amboy chute is Coopers and he bailed just off V23 as per Kaye/FBI. You spent time locating t the chute site. JT believes Cooper bailed east near the Washougal! And you are ready to join that 1-million man expedition. So which is it! ? Amboy, or Washougal, ? Or all of the above plus Social media exposure?

__________________________________________________ Blevins: What you are saying is simply not true. You don't know what you're talking about, again. I was there. You just throw things arouind with no forethought. No problem. Thank God talk is cheap. MeyerLouie Could be the approach one takes that determines how much info is obtained and the quality of that information....just sayin' A dyslexic man walks into a bra... Care to translate from Maroonz into Emglidsh ? btw, we since already photos have and a Google map also, yes, of where the parachute was found. or did "they n them" forget while "briefly reviewed" their copy of the Palmer report, etc. !? Play it again Sham Wow Maroonz. New Orleans was nice. Thanks to Bill Gates and all at Dynamics Convergence ...

some would say obsessive compulsive, just for starter. We have been through enough of these suspect handlers to know, there arrives a point where things turn bitter. Anything can happen. One handler even died! Auto accident. Maybe he was preoccupied and thinking about the Cooper case. Who knows. Geoff and I have discussed a little of the syndrome and those in it. That includes our resident handlers. One thing I have noticed is, these handlers arrive at a point (pretty quickly) where they see themselves as experts on the Cooper case, and in charge of the Cooper case. It would be funny if it wasn't so sad. They wave off all caution and act in front of the whole world like they are .... Alexander(ess) the Great? Personally I wouldn't touch that stuff with a ten foot pole. The 'evidence' in the case is abstract enough. Are you still doing some math as a hobby? G. __________________________________________________ It's been a while since I've done math for a hobby, although teaching it has always been fun. Working with college kids keeps you on your toes. MeyerLouie Can you say what level math you teach ? Its no biggie if you dont want to - I'm working on Planck's revision of Blotzmann equations tonight for a paper. I haven't worked with this stuff for years and am in - deep. Thank God for Jstor and the internet! This younger generation wants each and every step, with proofs! Demanding audience but glad for their enthusiasm!

If that could be verified it would be a huge clue pointing to prior parachute experience. Jerry Thomas kindly paved the way for a phone call with Ralph H. Ralph said he saw nothing that supported Tosaw's claim about DBC examining a packing card. At the Portland symposium I challenged several people to find the packing card on my NB8 in under a minute. Nobody succeeded. It is really well hidden. 377 Interesting. I thought Tina was a witness. What was Ckret's version ?

Bob claims that Janet lived in Portland and not Vancouver? Wrong. Janet and her family lived in Vancouver at the time of the hijacking. This is documented.

Did you catch I talked to Gray (on the telephone) last week. A nice long conversation. Among other things he apologised for his 'erroneous' remarks in his book which including my having been born and raised in Washington - the mantra Blevins peddled for months calling me a liar about my own birth! Gray and I had a good conversation, to be continued later, and I feel better about a few things. Just thought you might want to know ... you might give him a call in your own regard. That's up to you.

Blevins: Your multi-paragraph soliloquy here, once again, changes nothing -- it's all a circumstantial case. It proves nothing whatsoever. This theory is why you are here, you've based your entire existence on it..... MeyerLouie some would say obsessive compulsive, just for starter. We have been through enough of these suspect handlers to know, there arrives a point where things turn bitter. Anything can happen. One handler even died! Auto accident. Maybe he was preoccupied and thinking about the Cooper case. Who knows. Geoff and I have discussed a little of the syndrome and those in it. That includes our resident handlers. One thing I have noticed is, these handlers arrive at a point (pretty quickly) where they see themselves as experts on the Cooper case, and in charge of the Cooper case. It would be funny if it wasn't so sad. They wave off all caution and act in front of the whole world like they are .... Alexander(ess) the Great? Personally I wouldn't touch that stuff with a ten foot pole. The 'evidence' in the case is abstract enough. Are you still doing some math as a hobby? G.

He spent almost a year trying to convince everyone on this thread that Gray told him I was a mental case. I finally get tired of this and asked Gray myself. Answer: He told Georger no such thing. Later, Georger admitted 'he might have heard it from someone else'. Whatever. I admitted no such thing. I did no such thing. I stand by what I said. I posted last week I just talked to Gray by telephone again and he told me you were a "trouble maker", quote unquote. He also apologised for his erroneous info on me in his book. That's it. Your craziness here at DZ speaks for itself. Does not need Gray or me or anyone to confirm. Please don't play it again, Sam! The only person keeping this alive is you!

Classic. I sure do miss Farflung. +1. Or Snowmman. Anything to bring some order back to the Maroonz where Wage Earner Sheeple play ?

SEE what Blevins does with KEY WORDS. Note he says FBI REPORT! Key in D.B.Cooper and FBI report and see what you get. THERE WAS NOT an FBI REPORT ON KC! BLEVINS HAD TO BE SURE THERE WAS ONE - JUST BECAUSE. Why they collected the information and sent it to the FBI - so a REPORT would result. I tend to have the same feeling. Moreover: "Go-Go Luckey Productions and History Channel (Inc), via rep Marisa Kagan are jointly legally responsible for your report to the FBI. " I wonder if this Marisa Kagan CAN speak for much less sign for Go-Go Luckey Productions and History Channel (Inc). She could sign for herself but for the corpora- tions? Blevins says to check with the corporations - and maybe someone will. Smokin99 is good at running such things down. In effect we have gone all the way from Blevins making accusations against Geestman and calling him a liar, to two corporations backing accusations calling Geestman a liar, all on the "permission" of one Marisa Kagan, whatever her authority is! I thought months ago Blevins said no more KC? Here we are months later still having to deal with it because Blevins keep posting it! ????? We know the broken record routine. Still advertising and promoting...

So you are saying the report is fiction? How did you come to that conclusion? Research? Checking with the witnesses? Proving the documents submitted were forgeries? Let me guess: None of the Above. The other things you mentioned sound personal, and are none of my concern. Your blanket statement that the report is 'fiction' only shows you no longer have any objectivity. The report doesn't 'prove' Kenny was the hijacker. It just presents what is known about him, and the available evidence, such as it is. I haven't contacted the FBI about it since, and neither have I sent copies to the media, although I thought about doing it for a while. What I am saying Blevins, is you are WAAAAAAAAAY over my head. My ovaries even hurt!

So, Go-Go Luckey Productions and History Channel (Inc), via rep Marisa Kagan are jointly legally responsible for your report to the FBI. That is not spelled out anywhere that I could find in your @"Report To The FBI" ISBN Jstor Google. I guess I did not read the fine print Amazing. That is NEWS! Any attorneys or stock holders out there care to comment ? Better yet...why don't you check with the people I named as responsible for the report? You are REALLY reaching here. I don't have a problem with verification. By the way...the FBI's had the report for a while now, and everyone on the DZ Cooper thread is well aware of it. Not really news anymore. I don't suppose it ever occurred to you to check the actual CONTENT of the report. No...of course not. That would be admitting there is something to it. I understand this is impossible for you to accept. No problem. 'Being an intellectual creates a lot of questions and no answers...' Janis Joplin No Blevins. I only read nonfiction, then wait for a report on CNN, Nancy Grace, and UN troops and AB Books troops on the move in black helicopters. Pending that I will stay in my ivory tower and cook Chicken soup in the microwave. I'm just a "wage earner sheeple". A "Maroonz". I guess if the FBI and Congress don't respond to you guys, there will be hell-to-pay! No wonder 377 backs you! You are the real-deal! You always said you were.

So, Go-Go Luckey Productions and History Channel (Inc), via rep Marisa Kagan are jointly legally responsible for your report to the FBI. That is not spelled out anywhere that I could find in your @"Report To The FBI" ISBN Jstor Google. I guess I did not read the fine print Amazing. That is NEWS! Any attorneys or stock holders out there care to comment ? I mean It just keeps getting bigger and bigger and bigger.

On Rataczak: He has been quoted as saying he has collected a lot of research on the case over the years. Maybe he has information in hard copy that no one is aware of. He does answer the phone, although he probably screens the calls first, due to Cooper Nuts. Just saying. Maybe he has the radar data somewhere, or other answers to certain questions? Robert99 might want to give him a call. Thanks for this news & info too - Most of us are new here and don't know the ropes. Thanks for keeping us informed about Rataczak.

Do reporters have witnesses sign off to everything? NO. They do usually verify, however. That's exactly what we did. You present people with what they said, what they testified to, and then ask them (as a matter of courtesy) if this is an accurate rendition of their statements. The report itself was subbed by AB and Sherlock, basically. Addresses, email, phone all included, so I think the FBI figured out easily who sent it. The Decoded cast are not named as witnesses, but we consulted them because we thought they should see everything on Geestman that they didn't know at the time of filming. ? Well your post says, quote: "Try to remember something. I cannot take full responsibility for the FBI report that was done on KC. This is because it was the final result from several different people and a couple of organizations, not just yours truly. Marisa Kagan, for example, ... " You say: "I cannot take full responsibility for the FBI report ... This is because it was the final result from several different people and a couple of organiza- tions, " You are saying above you cannot (will not) take full responsibility. YOU SAY: "it was the final result from several different people and a couple of organizations," Which ORGANISATION are you saying is on the hook for your report to the FBI? Are the CEOs of these organisations aware !? You're saying you and Porteous signed in behalf of people and ORGANISATIONS. I assume these are corporate organisation - yes? The whole world reads this forum as you have informed us of countless times. You seem to be making a public announcement. In behalf of ORGANISATIONS ! WHAT ORGANISATION? CORPORATE ORGANISATIONS? (who people own stock in?)

Rataczak was once quoted on this thread as having said something like, "I'm the only one who knows what the flight path was in the Portland area." And he certainly should have known what it was since he was hand-flying the aircraft and looking at the flight instruments and navigational instruments constantly. Also, there is a published picture of the entire cockpit crew plus the cabin crew at a news conference either in Seattle or Minneapolis with a day or two of the hijacking. If you read "body language", then carefully note that all three cabin crew members appear to be bored to death with the whole conference. And the cockpit crew, all three of them, have their arms crossed across their chests. In body language, this means that the cockpit crew members have been "turned off" by something. The rest is history. Robert99 Great post! So we don't need no radar data Yes I have seen that arrns-crossed painting at the Art Institute on Chicago. Carol probably knows it well! I think 'arms crossed' is universal code ... the Planckian momentum of action.

Yes, there were a couple of meetings, some via Skype, some here at the office with the local staff. All witnesses named in the report, with the exception of Bernie and Margaret Geestman, were consulted before the report was sent to Seattle. Some of them I spoke to by phone, reading off sections where they were mentioned and I asked them if they thought this or that part was an accurate representation of their testimony. None of them objected. Marisa Kagan, Buddy Levy and Scott Rolle from Decoded were e-mailed copies. So were the family members of Dawn Andrusko, including the PDF for the book. I had Porteous review the report for accuracy. He approved it. Signed by yours truly and Porteous. Says so...if you had bothered to look. So you and Skip Porteous signed the report for the group. Have members of the group signed off - an approval or release statement? I mean most people receiving a report want to know WHO it is from and WHO it represents ... and I think the FBI is rather particular in knowing WHO OR WHAT SENT THEM A REPORT ? I am sure you agree. Being the thorough reporter of truth and true associations you are. Wink

Try to remember something. I cannot take full responsibility for the FBI report that was done on KC. This is because it was the final result from several different people and a couple of organizations, not just yours truly. Marisa Kagan, for example, who broke through Geestman's lies as easily as a hot knife cuts through butter. There are some certain things established on Christiansen, and others not so well established. But when you cut to the chase on him, the one thing I am 100% sure of is that Bernie Geestman and his ex-wife know the truth on Christiansen (and their possible involvement) one way or another. And that's good enough for me. Smile 'Being an intellectual creates a lot of questions and no answers...' Janis Joplin Well you have hinted "your" report filed with the FBI was a "group" report before. A group effort? Did you all have a meeting? Who wrote the report? WHO SIGNED THE REPORT? Just you or all of the members of this so-called group you are now openly naming with responsibility for the report? Are ALL of the members of this so-called group aware they FILED A REPORT WITH THE FBI !? Or you just sorta did it for them ? I mean most people receiving a report want to know WHO it is from and WHO it represents ... and I think the FBI is rather particular in knowing WHO OR WHAT SENT THEM A REPORT ? I am sure you agree.

Don't know who wrote that blurb, but it looks like a quick and dirty "summary" that relied less on accuracy and more on getting it done in xx number of words.

The only mention EVER made involving a member of the crew in all of these yrs - was made by BK. NO ONE else! Now in my Off my Rocker mode I might bite into any thing! BK never knew Duane Weber, he just WISHES he had. Where the things come from inside of BK's mind are needless to say MIND BOGGLING! Bruce would claim MIND CONTROL! Was BK involved as he claimed or did he take an article with a picture of man he had met and connect it to a group in the Complex who talked about jumping and skydiving. Something in BK's mind connect the picture of Weber with Cooper and with skydiving. 1. He did NOT know Duane Weber? 2. So far no one has proved Weber was Cooper. Now that he have 1 & 2 out of the way - Why does BK associate his memories with a government planned activity. 1. Why is he so fixated on Weber as Cooper? 2. Why is he fixated on conspiracy or government sanctioned activity? 3. Does he have buried within his mind knowledge of the crime? If so perhaps it is buried very deeply.. 4. If number 3 is true - might explain why he hitched a ride on Weber, but how does one find that deep seated memory within his mind? 5. Did he actually witness something as a young man - that yrs later he attached to Cooper & a planned crime? 6. Perhaps what he witnessed was just a bunch of guys in the complex out doing a little skyjump planning on the week-end. 7. Could he have taken this harmless seed - and store it away? 8. Did the story about Weber in the US News and World reports in 2000 caused this man (who already had issues) to suddenly believe the weekend outing of others living in his complex were part of a conspiracy. 9. He had problems that existed before he contacted me. The story about Weber fueled false memories. Each conversation became more detailed on his end - and then 3 months laters later he would present names or something I baited him with in a prior conversation as part of HIS memory. 10. Protect and DO NO HARM! I should have realized he had a problem and walked away. I didn't just like you guys PUT up with me! 11. One could draw a paralled between Jo & Knoss - but please do NOT. Jo has told her story the same since day one and explored Duane's actions and what he said during our life time together and dug into his past. Jo lived with this man. 12. What was buried with in the mind of Knoss? WHY did Knoss fabricate the record keeping and contoct the story about Duane? 13. Did BK ever actually meet Duane Weber? The image of Weber is buried within his mind but Duane did live in the area for about 6 weeks. Perhaps - A bar, a restaurant or have lived in the same complex? 14. Knoss sees Weber's face in the U.S. News and world reports and it is a story about skyjacking.15. Knoss remembers these guys who lived in his complex jumping - perhaps he envied them. 16. His mind starts to associate the picture in the article with the activies at the complex he lived in. 17. He had an emotional probem to begin with and he fixated on Weber as the jumper! Please Knoss do NOT reply to this POST - leave it be! Do NOT even acknowledge it - go on with your life or what is left of it. Set yourself FREE! You fed off of our contacts - you made associations where there were none. Yes, U did fabricate a lot. The fabrications where the clues I explored - and they DID not PAN out, but your mind would NOT let it go! 1. You met Weber briefly in 1966 2. Some jumpers live in the complex. 3. You see an article with Weber's picture in 2000. Then with you connecting DOTS that did NOT connect U made lives pretty miserable for the Co-pilot and his family. Do one thing RIGHT! Send a letter of apology to the Co-pilot explaining how and why you came to your conclusions and the reasons for your accusation against him. Hopefully now U will see what transformed within your mind. _________________________________________________ I'm sorry Jo, but I just don't see all the evil that Bob Knoss is supposed to possess. I've been here a while, and I just haven't seen the sinister side of this guy. Maybe it's there, maybe not. Maybe he's just a big teddy bear. Maybe he's evil. Maybe not. Sorry, I just haven't seen it. He's always been nice and respectful to me in my correspondence with him. So what if he has a theory that sounds completely crazy? He has just as much right to his theory as you and Blevins have to yours. Neither you nor Blevins have coughed up one shred of proof in defense of your theories. Neither has BK, but how is he all that different from what we've gotten from, say, Blevins? I haven't gone over to the conspiracy theory side of things -- yet anyway (as Dr. Evil would say -- as he raises his little pinky), but who's to say BK's theory is any more untenable than anybody else's theory around here? Whose to say the DBC hijacking wasn't a government-sponsored special operation to improve airline safety? What about Jake from Walla Walla that Geoff Gray wrote about? Far fetched? Not any more than some of the other theories. Hijackers always leave evidence, they always get caught -- until Cooper came along. Whose to say he didn't get some government-sponsored help on the ground? Nobody has come along to disprove it. Notice how evidence has gotten lost and/or compromised over the years. Notice how the FBI has stonewalled so many for so long. Notice how Cooper just simply vanished without a trace, never to be seen or heard from again. Notice all of the airline safety rules, regulations, and procedures that got implemented as a result of the DBC hijacking. How about that "Cooper Vane"? Heck, they even named it after the guy. Back in the early 70's there were so many hijackings, it was pathetic. Folks back East weren't necessarily paying attention to it all, but we out West were. It seemed to me that there was great pressure on the government, by some groups, to deal with the hijackings and resolve the crisis asap. Heck, even Native Americans were hijackiing airplanes back then -- "Where do you want to go?" "Oklahoma!" he said. See Blevins, where's a native guy going to hijack an airplane to? Cuba's out. The joke loses its spontaneity if you have to explain it. Whose to say the government wasn't desperate enough to go Special Ops on this? It's not like they've never done something like this before. And you had that paranoid crook, the ultimate obstructor of justice, Richard Nixon, in the White House. Far fetched? Maybe. Maybe not. Whose to say BK's theory is anymore far-fetched than some of the other theories weve heard around here? In any event, he's got just as much right to his theory as anyone else. His theory is more plausible than Blevin's, if you take into account the credibility factor (or lack thereof). If BK violated your privacy, integrity, or rights, then go through the proper channels to get your justice. If not, then you got fifty lashes with a wet noodle because of his poor choice of words or because of the harmless, maybe even despicable, non-criminal acts he committed. So what if he said and did some bizarre things. So what if he has issues. Who doesn't? If he was harmless, for the most part, why not just ignore him and go your merry way? MeyerLouie BK is just a straw man people use here ... "Wage earner sheeple" and "Maroons" is the real issue!

Nope. Happy guy here. One of the nicest folks you'll ever meet.

By the way...there's no such thing as 'fictional facts,' as you refer to. Something is either fact or fiction. In the case of the evidence on KC, everything stated in the FBI report on him is true. I made NOTHING up about it. N-O-T-H-I-N-G. Georger replies: Well actually there is, when you understand what he's saying, instead of trying to put words into his mouth as you arrogantly do. He's saying: "fiction foisted off as facts". As for the rest of your speech it shows your lack of schooling and arrogance again. Your final sentence above might as well say: "Everything stated in the FBI report I sent them is fiction, because as a hate filled person I don't know the difference between fact and fiction and don't care anyway. Screw the FBI! I am all that matters." I don't understand why people fear that document, or have so much anger and hatred about it. It doesn't prove Christiansen was the hijacker. It only presents the available information about him, that's all. Georger replies: You use the words fear and hatred more than any person to ever post at Drop- zone! Aren't you just expressing what is inside of yourself under the premise that you don't give a damn what you say or who hears it? Maybe you think its smart and cute