SafecrackingPLF

I would say that the more experienced the jumper was at that particular moment in time, the less likely they would have been to have even contemplated that particular jump on that particular night and location. I think that's an extremely astute observation and insightful path of thinking. It would imply that Cooper barely had any experience and was over confident (or had a deathwish).

Thank you for the post capnastropants. The additional information on the parachute find is dependent on your understanding of how it happened. The wikipedia writer implied that the canopy came directly from the ground. My understanding was that it came from the pile of dirt that was bulldozed... but I'm just assuming.

Has there been anyone on this thread that has ever suggested that Cooper was a total wuffo? I can't recall any. Three primary suspects are known to have jump experience. Weber's experience or inexperience has not been shown nor proven in anyway. There has been some hearsay to suggest Weber had some exposure to parachutes at some point. If there is a consensus, it would be that Cooper had some experience with parachutes and/or skydiving to some capacity. It's highly unlikely that Cooper would be a complete "novice".

DJL, I said it once. I'll say it again. As crazy as it sounds, that's a legit theory. novalis, "if he knows so much about the plane... does he also know that it can't get to mexico that way?" It depends on how he obtained his knowledge. If he was a pilot, then it's absolutely reasonable. If he obtained his knowledge second-hand (books or someone) then he may not have figured out the extra drag would have prohibited the plane from reaching Mexico without refueling. There's also an assumption here that gets flushed out after the fact. Cooper did not go to Mexico and didn't go to Reno either. He jumped about a half hour into the flight south, which would imply his intent was to never go that far. He either didn't know it would require a refueling or he didn't think about it, or both. Whichever one you think represents Cooper will have some implications of who he was and what his expertise may have been. Him purposely appearing to have made a mistake in his calculations/asumptions just to throw off authorities just doesn't pass the smell test with me... but certainly it could not be ruled out. he seems to choose one at random Many of us have wanted to know exactly what was said in the exchange between William Rataczak and Dan Cooper. All we know is that they "went back and forth" and agreed upon Reno. To infer significant meaning out this would be shaky at best without something else to support a derived contention. with a radio, he could call his accomplice to heip Absolutely a good thought. I've wondered this myself. I do not believe it was the case, however. Cooper had a case with an apparent bomb and a paper sack with nothing substantial in it (meaning contents weren't big, bulky, or heavy). is there a consensus on this? There is no consensus. Some have said all he had to do was pull the rip cord. Some have said it would be hard to find the rip cord. Others have said it would be extremely hard to pull the rip cord. Yet some base their opinion on making it out after the landing and others base their opinion on the jump itself. I've tried to abstain from this aspect, because there's a way to back into likely scenarios just in analyzing the recovered ransom.

If you ever post before you wanted to, you can always go back and edit your statements. Just use the edit link at the top of your post. I think I get what you're saying... there's two Coopers that are portrayed: a cunning crafty thief who was organized enough to pull this off and the idiot who didn't know what he was getting himself into. My personal opinion is that he was a little of both. I think he was a little over his head, but it's undeniable that he was shrewd and borderline genius in what he did. When we discuss Cooper's likely background or knowledge, we're really splitting hairs to get a more accurate profile of him. You are correct. They have insisted that he died. That insistence is beginning to wain, not so much from the parachute but from the extensive discussion that has taken place on this website. Whether or not this turns out to be Cooper's canopy is really immaterial to the facts already established. There's really very few ways for the money to get to its discovery point naturally, and the few ways are widdled down to almost nothing at this point. While everyone on this thread continues to hold onto the no-pull or "impossible to pull" idea, the actual facts suggest otherwise. One either accepts this, or accepts a conspiracy involving someone finding the ransom and dumping it 12 miles away. Orange1, We can find out who owned the property if we can conclude for sure where this parachute was found. I'd have to dig in some records when I'm back in Clark County next time (not until August), but it could be done... I could also get a family member to do this for me. I know exactly where to look in the records. It's the same way I found the discovery point of the $$.

It was pretty well established by Ckret on the old thread that all Cooper ever asked for was 4 parachutes; "two front packs, two back packs". He implied that the "main and reserve" commands were myth. It's assumed that in asking for two front-type and two back-type that Cooper was actually wanting main and reserves, but the FBI was worried about him taking hostages with the parachutes, so perhaps they were aware that all four parachutes were reserves when they handed them over in the first place.

low_pull1 , If the canopy was a 28 stuffed into an NB6, then wouldn't there at least be a S/N for both the canopy and the container? Wouldn't there be two sets? And if there's two sets, what were the numbers that Ckret posted on the previous thread (container or canopy)? labrys, Thank you! I'm a tunnel rat in the making!

It was never stipulated. I would have thought the numbers and manufacturer would make some sense to people here. My speculation is that it isn't the SN only because if it were, then there wouldn't be a huge bruhaha about the find. OTOH it would explain the lack of effort to go get the harness.

And I spun around a lot?

As most of you know, for months we went back and forth about the canopy because it seemed to be recorded in the files erroneously. I just got an email from Ckret with the following short message: "Thought I would let you know that the mystery of whether the canopy was 28 or 26 is solved. It is a 28 stuffed in an NB6" Read into it what you will, but my guess is that this was confirmed after speaking with Cossey. Either way, it would seem that Ckret was comfortable enough to make that point, and I thought I'd pass it onto the community. No 26' Navy Conical. OT, I went tunneling today.

I saw it, but thought 60-9707 referred to the model number not the S/N. Did I make a wuffo mistake?

It seems plausible that the parachute wouldn't necessarily need to be deployed... so I would concur as well. Of course, I'm thinking if this is turns out to be Cooper's NB6, then it was deployed (location would suggest it).

I heard back from Ckret. He told me, "I have been keeping up on the posts, you guys are doing quality work." I want to make sure that no one considers my words a PA, but Ckret will not join the discussion at this time because some things were said about him on the old thread that weren't exactly true. Along those lines, he said, "please send my thanks to all of those who are helping with this case. Good Luck" I think it's important that we continue to work through the ins and outs of the case and move forward instead of look back. If people have legit questions, I will see if I can get answers.

We were asking that months ago. I think the best proposal came from Orange1 when he suggested it was used to judge the slipstream before the jump. Which, if this recovered parachute is the dummy, it would mean the real parachute is south of where this one was found. Also, with the seagull thought experiment, it would require the seagull to place the three packs of bills pretty much right at where it was found. It would not drift downstream and washup (float time is 10 minutes when totally dry) and the bills would not stay together (drift apart). After thinking about this whole thing for a day, my thinking goes like this: Too coincidental; Would never rule out this find as being part of Cooper evidence without obtaining the harness; if it's planted evidence, it's one hell of a plant; the FBI would not have planted this recently nor would they manufacture a canopy in this area because Ckret has admitted the LZ in question does not support the accepted theory; perhaps the accepted theory is the reason no one has dug up the harness yet (two weeks later!).... think about it, if you have an entire organization that believes Cooper died on impact, and then they come across something that might be evidence, they would be operating under the notion that there's a body to exume and money to retrieve and that it would be an exhaustive search... let's "prove" this is the canopy before we go and do all that. Then you have Ckret, who had to change his theory to fit the facts, thinking the LZ is much further SE and he's probably thinking "no way, can't be it"... and thus, no one goes and gets the critical artifact (harness).

Yeah I laughed out loud when I saw the parachute open so quick and there was a modern square canopy... he also never went into basic position. Then, I got to thinking that their graphic designers who put the video together may not have had an image of a round... funny stuff though.

Thank you for clearing that up. I'm catching A LOT of the media's mistakes left and right as I watch. It's mostly the TV people who get it wrong, but there have been errors in the printed paper as well. Ckret... we know you visit. Someone has noted your log ins. I'm happy that someone respectable finally said it... and this is monumental and was NEVER admitted by anyone of authority: "If this is D.B. Cooper's parachute, the money could not have arrived at its discovery location by natural means," Carr said. "That whole theory is out the window." That's big PROPS to the DZ thread right there. Everyone who had a hand in putting those posts together back in January (NickDG, Ckret, Sluggo, 377, Orange1, 1969912 , Guru312, low_pull, BGill, Zing, Ryodar, Windsor, and quade for allowing us to keep posting on this rehashed subject)... Like I said, we did something special. For 36 yrs that old theory was the theory, and the original landing area was the landing area... it's now accepted, the two are mutually exclusive.

Yes, there's an error in Ckret's reasoning... They want to "prove" it's the chute before they excavate the property. No one says they have to dig up the whole property, just go back to the dirt pile and get the container!!!!! If warranted, they can always do a more extensive search for other things (body, attache case, money bag *which would not be likely) This is making the news all over... CNN, ABC, NBC. This is not a local thing, someone is going to go there and get it if the FBI or the family doesn't wise up and get it first.

Thank you! Obviously logic did not rule the day nor did any significant level of examination (dummy chute by accident)... Maybe I should rephrase the question: What's the liklihood that Issaquah had a 25 yr old chute in a NB6 packed and ready for use? I do not think it's the dummy chute unless the flight path was off (east)... remember that the chute was recovered east of point A (no-pull). I've been told something like this can drift further than a person (and I believe that), but Carr was pointing to an area 2.3 miles NE of point A. 1.5 miles NE of point U. Point U is where the eastward most flight path (half a nautical mile east from the flight path) intercepts line AB. Could a pack drift 1.5 miles? If so, then maybe it is the dummy chute. It would mean the "real" chute is south of there somewhere (he likely threw the dummy before he jumped).

Yeah, would they really give Cooper a chute that's 25 years old?? This goes back to it being stuffing in the dummy chute. It also goes back to my knee jerk thought "it's too old"... Malcolm Gladwell (Blink) would be all over me for wasting my time about this chute when my initial reaction was "too old" ha ha ha ha ha

Thank you for clearing that up mark. It took me about 3 seconds to think through what you were saying, then it made sense. So if anyone is still confused, the NB6 is an emergency rig. Therefore, it's a reserve chute to be used in case of an emergency. Plus, it had no D rings and could not be considered a "main" Correct me if I'm wrong.

Thank you for posting that link! I'm going to go ahead and give myself a pat on the back for this quote: Carr said that if Cooper landed where the parachute was found, it would be impossible for the ransom money to end up where it did by natural means. That sure sounds like someone I see every morning in the mirror.

Most people do not know about line AB. But if someone were to visit this thread and read Ckret's posts, plus try to decipher the low res map he posted (plus I may have posted some coordinates before today but I can't recall), then they'd know where to hide a chute. This is one reason why I think if it were a total hoax, it would probably have been done (hidden) a long time ago and not just last month. It would have had to be pure luck or someone associated with the case. This is probably total coincidence. Right now, I'm probably thinking 80% coincidence and 20% authentic.

On the face of it, the years do not match. Cooper's chute was 1959 and this one is 46. Which is easier, to dig up the rest or to do some fancy "fiber" analysis? The only reason this gets me pumped a bit is that Ckret is saying it was found pretty much on line AB. That's like throwing a dart at a board from 50 feet blindfolded from behind your back and hitting the bullseye. Here's a question for you and for everyone else... yes, I'm a total WHUFFO (though I might visit my local tunnel tomorrow).... Would the dummy front harness have a chute like this in it???? Wouldn't it just have rags? I'm convinced that Javelin1 is someone who was in the "know" regarding this find. It's just too weird to have someone asking for Cossey at the exact time when this chute was discovered.

Could be. If he bulldozed a body, then there's bones probably scattered everywhere in that pile. I can tell you this (which may not help anyone here) but Earl Cossey did say the big disadvantage to the chute that Cooper used was finding the rip cord. Someone had suggested that perhaps he said "hard to pull" but he literally said "hard to find". Does that sound like the harness you're theorizing about??? Ckret, you have hundreds of people here who would love to volunteer and help. I don't think there'd be any Indian burial issues unless they found a bone. Then there'd be a five year study to determine if anyone else is allowed to sift through the dirt. As it is now, no bones, should be able to dig. Quade, good points about other agents now having their smiling faces taken with the chute. That's "bureau"cracy for you. Also, it's good to have you chiming in every now and then with your objective outsider point of view. I forget sometimes that not everyone is a compulsive Cooper fantantic freak like myself. I'm thankful you're willing to offer your take from time to time.

Correct. No one has said this confirms anything, because it has not been confirmed this is the chute. If it were the chute, it confirms the original calculations of the FBI. From there, we can debate what that would mean (someone moved the money)... But to say the find itself confirms anything is too premature.