SafecrackingPLF

You're probably right. Let's face it, from where we sit now, there wasn't much people could have known to pin Duane down. Then again, we don't know the stories he told people over the years. All it would take is for him to worry his butt off about someone at work/home puting the pieces together. If he leaves town while no one really suspects anything, out of site, out of mind??? If he was Cooper, my personal opinion would be that this sudden move was not needed, he was A-Okay. If he was not Cooper, then this is another weird detail of his life. He didn't just quit his job, he quit his job (lying to his boss about the reason why) and then left town! Leaving town means extra expenses, divided family.... I believe he did not even come back to help them pack for the move after the daughter graduated but skyjack would have to confirm that. What causes a guy to pull this type of thing? Massive Fear, massive opportunity, or total dysfunction in the home so bad that he actually has to leave the state instead of just move out and get his own place. I'd bank on massive fear because his home life was good and his subsequent job was a demotion and less stable. What would cause Duane to have that much fear would be debatable... but it is fairly coincidental that they found the money less than two weeks prior and he managed to confess to the crime 15 years later on his deathbed. Ckret, are there any unsolved bank robberies in the Fort Collins area around Feb 1980? The suspect would have to be about 56 yrs old or so.... if you can look through your cold case bank robberies, maybe we can find out why Duane skipped town so suddenly and put the speculation to rest. Plus, you could solve an old case and add another to your resume.

You ask good questions, and while you asked skyjack71, I could probably bounce some thinking off you just as easily as anyone else could. I don't know anything about the content "tipping" his wife off, but then again, he didn't know what was going to be shown on TV. Let's assume he was not Cooper and this behavior was coincidence. First, it would be highly coincidental since he would confess to the crime 15 years later. Second, there would have been some other factor that just so happened to correspond in time with the find... something such as a liason getting close to being exposed, or some form of mental "heat" or pressure. What circumstances would cause a man to leave his family behind while he skips town and takes up a less lucrative job? Something that's big in his mind. Some form of heat. Conversely, if he were Cooper, he had been working, living, and enjoying life as it were. Then, on a Wednesday morning, he wakes up to see that someone found some Cooper money. The crime is front page headlines again. The AP reports for the first time that an indictment was handed down in absentia. He does not know what the authorities do or do not know. He was just there... he was just at the Columbia 4 or 5 months earlier. His wife even watched him go down into a wooded area along the river. If she puts two and two together, he's going up the river. He doesn't know how hot this is going to get. At this point, no one around him suspects anything, but if the television is going to continue running specials on the crime, this cannot increase his odds of making it through unscathed. You saw how this case caught instant wind when there was an alledged parachute found... just imagine if it were 1980 and it was VERIFIED like the money was... big time news all over the place. Like I said, mental heat. Does it mean he was Cooper? Nope. But it's consistent with his actions and consistent with his confession. It's not inconsistent like you're implying. Re: Knapsack If we're to isolate the geographic region of this word in 1971, it will take the efforts of a linguist or someone who's expert at US dialect. I suggest if people want to explore that route that they find an expert and report the findings.

All this talk about ties and everyone omits the one crucial thing we know about the tie... Multiple Male Donors. Now that everyone and their mother wore clip-on ties in the 60s and 70s, let's figure out how or why there's so many donors on the tie. First question: Does multiple male donors mean two, or does it mean 5? How many donors are we talking about? The question is important if we're to figure out "why."

Yep. I have a suspect, my uncle, who once told me he did it. Then he took out a twenty and showed it to me. I went over to Tosaw's book, and I found a match. I couldn't believe my eyes. I then kept the 20 for myself and put it away in a "safe" place. I then came on here, and am spending time deciphering clues... just waiting for the right moment to tell the world, MY UNCLE WAS DAN COOPER. Good one Orange. Good one. You're a laugh riot sometimes.

Personal opinion alert... I'm not buying the "plane crashes" idea as having any relevance whatsoever. I also think there's someone here who tends to post a lot and has an undisclosed agenda/suspect. Sluggo, great posts as usual. I happen to disagree with the "Wal-Mart would call in a classic bill because it doesn't look like the new ones of the last 5-6 yrs" theory. Seeing a 1969 vintage bill in circulation would be weird, no doubt about it. But to think some idiot would call up the secret service "uh, I have a $20 bill from 1969 and it doesn't look like the modern multi-colored bills. Can someone come over and check it out before we take it the bank and deposit it?" Like I said, one quick pen stroke on that bill, and everyone would know it was authentic. When taken to the bank, it would probably get sent to the reserve, where they may just take it out of circulation.... I'm also pretty sure no would take the time to whip out their ransom list from 1971 and double check all 10,000 numbers against their rare $20 bill. But, of course, strict opinion here.

At the worst, the store manager would pull out his counterfeit detecting pen and run it across the face of the bill.... and when no black mark appeared, he'd know it was real. Then he'd look and say "wow, vintage bill"... Who knows what happens then, but certainly no secret service.

Please see my probability example at post 613. I performed the math only to show how a caculation would be done... I don't necessarily agree with the number. The two numbers I would change would be the "teller" factor (adjusted down) and the places to spend a dollar (I doubt it's a billion even worldwide). If you want me to calculate a more realistic number, I can do that. The actual number I came up with, however, might be pretty close to reality.

Agreed with Sluggo... Hanging out on a skydiving site for months on end has an influence. I now have a few minutes worth of FF experience and I plan on getting that up in the HOURS.

Do we know this for sure? It's been suggested because he was tying the bag to his waist when Tina saw him last. She doesn't know for sure if he finished tying to his waist, or if he was making another loop to tie it to his chest as well as his waist. He did cut two lengths of suspension line, he would have a lot of excess on that second one. It's an assumption, not a fact. A good assumption, but still an assumption.

I agree 100%. If Cooper wanted "revenge" or to send a message, then he'd make sure the other party knew what the message was. I asked it before, I'll ask it again... did Cooper leave anything behind that could be construed as a message, sign, or calling card as it were? Sluggo, Good find. Our 45+ yr old may have used one of his favorite comic book heros later in life.

Orange1, Thanks. It's always been assumed that Cooper took the rear rear inorder to maintain control. I would agree. However, if the smoking section was in the rear, then perhaps that's how he got the idea for the last row. Perhaps he was used to sitting back there, and when he visualized the crime in his mind, he thought (accurately) that it would be easier to keep an eye on everyone (and keep most passengers clueless) if he wasn't just in the back, but the very back.

I've always felt as though McCoy was the "better" of the two HJ's (other than his big mouth and prints)... I think I'm rethinking that. If he was a DZ regular, someone would have noticed him missing after the crime (either through death, or through him avoiding heat like the plague)... Opinion: Cooper may have been better than McCoy for the simple reason that his "mistakes" and bravado made it that much harder to determine who he was & what happened. For me, that's a big shift. If Cooper was not a real skydiver, then his MO was outside of his "expertise".... outside of his area of operation if you will... well, could that translate to other factors (such as geography)?

Going off of memory/feel... the distance from PDX to SEA-TAC would be about 180 miles. Just looked at mapquest and it tells me portland to seatac is 163 miles. Suppose 180 miles, 15 miles per gallon. You use 12 gallons of gas to get up, 12 gallons to get back. $3.48 each way! (at 29 cents a gallon). If you were a family going to visit parents, grandparents, or other relatives, why pay $18 per ticket when the whole family can travel for less than $10 ROUND TRIP? In other words, it's not like all these families would crowd the 4pm shuttle to SeaTac.

Since I work with probabilities all the time, I tend to think in terms of "odds" and not absolutes. This allows me the freedom to have an opinion, but also know there are other "possibilities" as well. Odds are a matter of relative strength of a deduction. Having said that, I agree with you regarding Cooper having some jump experience. How much? No one knows (except Cooper, and he's not exactly around to tell us)... You're right, it's a bit crazy to think he'd plan this out and never consider that he's a total newb. He had at least one jump under his belt. He may not have been "experienced" by today's standards, but he at least made on legit jump before doing this. I agree with 377, I do not think he was a member of the community. That would imply a level of expertise that Cooper (likely) did not have as given by his decisions, actions, etc. What increases the odds for me is that the FBI went around to all these DZs and hounded the people... and the best they came up with? Mayfield. I suppose what I'm saying is that if he were a member of the community, someone, somewhere, may have fingered him to the authorities. As for the day/time of the jump. He chose a night jump. He wanted the cash by 5 pm. The end of civil twilight is 4:59 that day... it was a night jump on purpose. The day cannot be chalked up to chance. I'm sorry, but the day before one of TWO major U.S. holidays (the other is Christmas) is not really chance. It was calculated either because he expected less law enforcement (less people to catch him) or because he was going to use the holiday (when people are at home) to make his escape.... or my guess, a combination of both. As to how crowded the planes would be... I can't comment. I wasn't around back then. I will offer this insight though: the flight was a 30 minute commute by plane. It's a 2 hour drive. Gas prices were cheap back then, you could get to Seattle and back for less than $18 in gasoline. Further, Portland was a low population city and Seattle wasn't that much greater... This plane had come all the way from Washington DC. It had more capacity than what would be expected for a small commute like this. But that last part is pure conjecture... I have nothing to base it on. Cooper obviously felt little risk in showing up at 2 o'clock and purchasing the ticket as per his plan, and expected to achieve his goal without being thwarted. One last thing... if the flight was not crowded, would it be common for average people to WANT to sit in the rear of the plane???? You'll be the last one off... My apologies for the thinking out loud on this one. Feel free to rip it to shreds.

The only descriptions mentioned were from Mucklow and Schaffner. I don't care about his description, we have that already; someone arguing against that is like a dog chasing their tail. I was interested in the actual statements. If you can't post, that's okay, I was hoping you'd remember Sunday's post when you said you'd post it Monday. I'd love to see the statements made by Simmonds & Hancock, and any others that might be interesting (ticket agent).

Why do you say that? You don't think a guy at or pushing 50 could have survived the jump and yet died of natural causes in the last 36 yrs? Keep in mind, he smoked. Some actually think that was "cover"... but regardless, he smoked, jumped out of planes in the middle of the night, it's not like his lifestyle would get him deductions on his life insurance. Pushing 90 and the guy would be expected to still be alive even with all that smoking and dangerous stuff?

Very helpful as usual Sluggo. Now we just need Ckret to post the statements by the ticket agent & Ms. Hancock.

so did he gradually decelerate once the air became a little more normal? That's a lot of "braking" to do from 700 mph. Wow, what a ride. Why take this long to give Kittinger some recognition? He's the dare devil of all-time with that one jump.

Sluggo, My question would be, what was TYPICAL? Was it typical for people to show up the day of and buy tickets? quade, I'm not sure how it was back then, but the flight was from PDX to SEA... a distance most families would drive instead of fly. But very good observation... why was Cooper convinced this would work, in other words, how did he know the flight would not be jammed packed? After pondering it further, it makes too much sense that he purchased the ticket the same day. Why? Because how much information can we conclude from him purcasing on the same day? None. All it proves is that he was in the airport at 2pm, something we already knew just from him boarding the plane. If he purchased the night before, we'd know he was in Portland the night before. If he purchased a week ahead of time, we know he was at PDX then... The better question to figure out is, how did he know this route would have a 727? Was it a guess? Was it luck? Or did he call a NW ticket counter at some point (prior) and ask the question over the phone when it wouldn't seem too weird? If it were me, I'd find out what airline, what time, what type of plane, and I'd do it at the minimum a few days in advance over the phone... all I'd have to say is that I have a fear of people and if they could tell me what flights have few people and use a (smaller) 727... Now, I don't necessarily think this happened, I'm just saying it could have happened.

It was purchased the day of. Right around 2 pm (the time might be off a half hour or so, I'm not sure). MANY empty seats on that flight. I wouldn't draw any inference from the time of the purchase. I doubt he woke up at 8 am, said "man this is a crappy life. I know! I'll hijack a plane!" BUT, the choice of Thanksgiving Eve has to have some significance. I'd have a hard time if you told me this was just any other day... no no, a holiday certainly is different than any other day. If anything, he would have expected a trimmed down LE numbers (helps get away with it) and possibly the Thanksgiving Holiday to assist him in the getaway. If the Thanksgiving Holiday was to help him in the getaway, then he PLANNED to be on foot in the middle of the night/following day. FURTHER, day of purchase could mean a few other things... it would give him a chance to make sure there were no other passengers next to him. If he purchases a month in advance, who's to say the flight doesn't get crowded or they put someone next to him? Second, it may indicate opportunities to purchase the ticket. If he lived down the street (and there are people who believe that) he'd have an opportunity to purchase the day before, the week before, etc, but if he were from out of town, he'd have to arrive BEFORE going to the ticket counter and purchasing the ticket. There's no way he'd use a travel agent (did they have them back then?), he'd buy direct from the counter (less chance of being noticed/remembered).

Just going up in the balloon with oxygen tanks and special suit would have been nerve racking, let alone the ff. I realize the air is really thin up there, but does anyone know if he tried to speed dive? Or was he going that fast in a belly position (holy smokes!)?

Cossey *may* have taken photos of his containers for record keeping purposes. I don't know. I've been told he has pictures, but whether or not they're of these exact containers?? The no D ring was from Ckret, not from any DZer. If Ckret has photos of the harnesses given (before, not after the HJ) then it would be great to post for all to debate.

Terry, Your insights are really helpful. The "toggle" comment was because we heard he'd have to pull the cord out and up, not just out, to get it to spring. 200 knot jumps for fun Amazing! Do you realize flight 305 was "only" going 170 kts when he jumped? A little faster than the 160 kts you described as being relatively stable (pic at 100'). You should know, there were NO D rings on the NB6. That's been stated over and over, so I believe it. He obviously made some mods to the rig (28' in a NB6)... the extent of the mods we wouldn't know without calling him directly, and he may play a prank on you when you call... Quick question: was the pioneer steerable?

In that 79 Cossey interview, he did say it was hard to find and didn't mention anything such as "there's no way he could have gotten it open since it was packed so tight"... But, I take people's word for it. The container was tight. Here's my question. Suppose you just lept from the plane, 200 mph exit speed, you (probably) don't have too much experience especially in these conditions, it takes you some time to stabalize, it takes you time to reach the cord, you yank on it, "oh s**t!" you say to yourself. "This thing is stuck!" An instant surge of andrenaline hits you, fright mode, flight or fight mechanism kicks in. You've been freefalling for about 20 seconds. You have roughly 25 seconds to pull that ripcord, or you're DEAD. Do you feel confident that you could give it a nice two hand pull and get 20+ lbs of force onto that cord? If you got the ripcord all the way out, would you toggle it back and forth until the darn parachute opened, or would you just give up and enjoy one last ride? When I said "confident" I didn't mean "comfortable"... none of us would be comfortable.

ROTFLMAO. I want to make that my tag line... that was a good one.