Belgian_Draft

The surface of each blade of the prop is moving. It is not stationary. Yes. But what drives the prop? HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

My dad left us many years ago but one thing I remember frommy childhood was his story of how the Boogie Man lived in a submarine in the Atlantic My dad was in the Merchant Marine and their only defense was a deck gun, but most ships didn't even have that. One old friend shows the true meaning of the word "courage". He and his best friend dropped out of high school to join the Army Air Corp after the US entered the war. They joined knowing their chances of ever coming home again were slim or none. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

Professor! Your input is needed! HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

But the prop, which is always moving crosswind does still feel a relative wind. Once the vehicle...and the prop...reach wind speed there is no air moving across the prop. None. Zero. Nada. Nil. No air moving across the prop means no energy conversion. The prop can only move crosswind if the entire vehicle moves crosswind. That would negate any claims of DWFTTW. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

Let me make this as simple as possible. On any self propelled vehicle there are two forces in oppossition to each other, thrust and drag. In a normal automobile thrust is provided by an engine via the driveline and tires, any tailwind component, and gravity if traveling downhill. Drag is provided by rolling resistance, gravity if traveling uphill, and aero drag including headwind component. We can leave out gravity for the comparison and just discuss a level roadway. In a normal car thrust is generated via an energy source that is withing the car...it is internal and not dependent upon speed. The driver uses the throttle to balance thrust against drag. As long as there is more power available than is lost though drag the vehicle can accelerate. If both are equal then the car cruises along at a steady speed. If, for some reason, drag suddenly increases then the car slows down. A wind powered vehicle is different in that it's power is speed dependent. It is dependent on the speed of the relative wind. Once it is at the speed of the wind (assuming it is traveling in the same direction) it no longer has a wind to produce additional thrust. No additional thrust = no acceleration = no speed beyond wind speed. The wheels, having relied upon the popelorr to move the vehicle forward, no longer have that energy input and therefor cannot provide any thrust beyond the energy stored in their rotating mass. Even if we assume no frictional losses and 100% efficiency in the prop (which, btw, is also impossible) the best the vehicle can do is hold it's speed. No relative wind means no energy input means no acceleration. The ground moving past the car is not the same as in the treadmill because the treadmill provided the thrust, here the vehicle provides the thrust if and only if there is a relative wind. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

66 years ago today thousands of brave men gave their lives so that we may enjoy the freedoms we have today. Please keep them and those who survived the day in your thoughts. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

Energy is supplied by the treadmill. The treadmill rotates the wheels which turn the prop whose thrust is ballanced against the rolling resistance of the vehicle. With careful tuning a static equilibrium can be found. The difference between running one on a treadmill and running one on the earth in a wind is that on a treadmill the energy is supplied continuously and could run as long as the treadmill was running. Treadmill stops, vehicle stops. Running in a wind on the earth the one and only source of energy is the wind, which the vehicle will lose once it is going the same speed as the wind. Sure, the wheels could drive the prop, but this removes more energy from the system than the prop can return due to losses in the system and zero or near zero relative wind. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

As I have already stated several times, it is not only possible to exceed the wind speed using it for power, or even travel against the prevailing wind direction, but it has been doen for centuries. It is no big deal and 2-3 times wind speed is way behind the 8-ball when it comes to record speed. It only requires skillful jibing and tacking. What I am saying is that it is impossible to travel in the same direction at the same speed as the wind for more than a brief period witout having some sort of energy storage device aboard. The vehicle discussed in this thread can only exceed wind speed by keeping a crosswind component. The video in the link clearly shows a crosswind component coming from the vehicles right and causung the streamers to push left. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

It was a comparison made to show the absurdity of the idea. They are trying to build a "free energy machine". HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

I will stick to my view that what they are claiming to do is not possible. Once the vehicle reaches wind speed there is no source of energy available to them except whatever energy has been stored in the mass of the vehicle. If geared correctly some of this can be used to briefly accelerate past wind speed but then they have a relative wind working against them, not for them. You cannot use wind coming directly at the vehicle to power the vehicle into the wind. Can't happen. It matters not what they do to the pitch of the prop or gearing. If it were possible then aircraft would not need engines. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

Now I wonder what would happen if...say a visiting skydiver from another country were to sneak up there with a parachute and jump off... 50,000 Parisians would immediately surrender thinking it was an invasion? HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

That's the same article linked in the OP. And it is still wrong for the same reason...once the vehicle is going the same speed as the wind it can no longer be used as a source of energy because there is no relative wind. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

Well, maybe not the dogs. Sorry, it's a package deal. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

This post is worthless without pictures. Do you really want pictures of ropes & dogs & mayo & nekked people? HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

Lame HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

Depends. Is he using a feather or the whole chicken? HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

A perpetual motion machine is what they are trying to build. Just like the guys with their magnet motors. The only way to recover energy from a wind...the ONLY way...is to have a relative wind. Just because the air is moving over the ground doesn't mean it can provide energy to a vehicle that is moving in the same direction at the same speed. To quote the builder, "It sounds like a perpetual motion machine — but you’ve got the wind as an external power source,” The wind is only an external power source when there is a relative wind. Same direction at the same speed means no relative wind. It really is that simple. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

Working models prove that it's not impossible. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86vhmTp7tKU Consider a line parallel to the propeller shaft intersecting its disk area. I'd speculate that workable gearing + propeller pitch combinations result in the propeller's point of intersection along all such lines moving backwards relative to the vehicle such that their a average total velocity with respect to the ground is less than the wind's. That seems more intuitive to me than the simplified explanation of the relative wind always hitting the blades at an angle. If you look at the streamers on the vehicle you can see that there is a crosswind component and they are NOT going directly downwind. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

Yeah, I read it and it will NOT go directly downwind and sustain a speed faster than the wind. It is impossible. What they are proposing to do is akin to powering a car with electric motors that run off current produced by generators driven by the wheels. If their vehicle is going straight downwind, that is, no crosswind component, as sson as they reach the speed of the wind they will have 0 relative wind, and it is relative wind that drives ANY wind powered land vehicle. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

Of course it could always go the other way. A morning trial, a quick lunch break, then an execution squeezed in before afternoon drinks. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

Yes, it can be done. Yes, it has been done. And it doesn't take a complex vehicle to do it. It only takes a bit of jibing to build your speed up until it is over the wind speed, turn the vehicle so it is going in the same direction as the wind, and there you have it. Problem is, you now have a relative wind coming directly at you that slows you back down. Surpassing the wind speed is not a problem. Sustaining that speed without additional maneuvering or other energy input is impossible. You can't push an object going "X" mph with another going "X" mph and get an acceleration. The pusher needs to be >"X" mph at some point. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

Yep! (Just can't sustain the speed for very long.) HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

"Woman Suing Her Creator...Claims She Was Made Stupid and Suffered Injuries as a Result." Now that lawsuit may stand a chance HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

Looks like a shitload of fun to me!

Real race cars don't have computers. Dirt track winged sprint cars make Indy and F1 look like grandma on her way to a tea party in comparison. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.