Belgian_Draft

A lot of agricultural equipment runs in the 1200-1500 psi range for one example. Do some research if interested, there ae many more. (BTW, I was talking about the water pressure...not the well pressure.) I think that was part of the posters argument, that all ideas should be looked at regardless of how stupid they appear and why he/she inquired as to where they could submit an idea. I have been on many group discussions where something totally unrelated and idiotic led an engineer to think of a problem from a different point of view and find a viable solution. That is why in a brainstorming session all ideas are considered and discussed. Reminds me of the time a self proclaimed aircraft , finance, political, and law expert couldn't explain what effect changing the rotation of the prop on a single engine airplane would have on the takeoff handling characteristics...or what aluminum alloys commonly used inaircraft could be welded, which couldn't, and why. Probably a good thing I don't own anything he works on. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

Are you better friends with him than with her? If you value her friendship more than his, then tell her. Unless he is your boss. Then that would be a bad thing to do. Are you sure she doesn't already know? Maybe she does and she's ok with it. In that case, you piss off both and you become the ass. Is there any possible good that can come from you telling her? If not, then don't. (This does not include the possibility of doing the Posturepedic Polka with her.) My worthless opinion...unless she is a very good friend, best to forget you even know the guy. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

I think a lot of people have no concept of the obstacles confronting the engineers on this project. To put it in some perspective: The pressures at that depth is roughly equal to the weight of a Ford Focus pressing down on an area the size of a US 50-cent piece. A lot of hydrulic systems operate at far less pressures. The pipe they are working with is 21" OD and (from what I am told) 20" ID. An average size male could insert his entire forearm inside the pipe and would barely touch the sides with his fingers (fully extended) and elbow at the same time. Gasses mixed with the oil expand and cool the oil/water mix to below freezing as they come out of the pipe creating a frozen slush that clogs even huge steel boxes built to capture the oil. Every movement of the robots must be carefully planned so as not to put it or the other robots in a situation it can't get out of such as tangling in lines, cut pipes flailing at them or falling on them, etc. Anything reaching from the surface to the well is incredibly heavy due to the distance involved. A 1" diameter steel rod reaching from a surface vessel to the bottom would weigh over 6.5 tons. Every attempt to stop the flow must first address the question, "What if it doesn't work? Will failure on this attempt prevent future attempts?" It's not an easy job and I don't envy those whose responsibility it is to come up with an answer. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

As any racing yachtsman knows, the DOWNWIND COMPONENT of velocity of a sailboat on a reach can exceed the windspeed. Consequently even if the race includes a leg that is directly downwind, they will usually sail some 30 degrees off the direct downwind direction because the net result is a faster leg. A propeller is just like a rotating sail. You don't even have to analyze a propeller in detail (which is very difficult). Imagine you have an ''actuator disk" that can change the momentum of the air, linked to a reversible motor/generator wired to another motor/generator attached to the wheels. Can you arrange things so that the change in momentum of the air results in extracting enough energy from the wind to provide the force necessary to keep the entire thing going when going downwind faster than the wind? The answer is: yes , you can. Now THERE is an explanation I can understand! HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

Why would I join any club that would have me as a member? HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

9/11 Ok, point taken. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

And thus is why there are so many threads on internet forums debating the issue. If it were a simple problem there would be no debate, only agreement. Though I respect your opinion I will cling to my own until there is undeniable proof otherwise. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

In windless conditions the air and ground are not moving relative to each other. A wind powered vehicle moving at the speed of the wind in the same direction has no air moving across it's prop unless the wheels drive it to turn. If they do then the energy returned to the vehicle by the prop cannot exceed that imparted to the prop by the wheels. Since the energy available to the wheels is restricted to the amount given to the vehicle by the prop it is a losing situation. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

Nope. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

It's not a cycle. the wind pushes on the vehicle(and blades) which rolls the wheels that spin the prop. The prop bites into the incoming wind that would provide drag on the prop and decreases any drag that would otherwise halt acceleration beyond wind speed and throw it back towards the tail-wind(the only real source of power). the tail-wind plus the positive pressure at the back of the blades and vacuum in front of the blades allows the chasis to speed up past the speed of the tail-wind. The wind is pushing on the cushion of air as a result of the spinning of the blades now. Not the blades themselves. I believe that if there wasn't any loss of energy from the wheels turning the prop, the vehicle could theoretically accelerate to infinity instead of meeting some speed equilibrium. If that were the case the vehicle should be able to propel itself across a level surface in windless conditions, something we all know is impossible. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

Yes, but if and only if neither of the belts causes an opposing force when the vehicle trys to exceed that belt's speed. That is what happens when trying to directly downwind faster than the wind...the vehicle starts to push against the wind instead of being pushed by it. But that can never happen unless energy is brought into the system from outside. The only way to do that is through the wheels...but they only have a finite amount of energy stored in them and in the mass of the vehicle. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

that is in relation to which direction the wind source is blowing; at the tail. Relatively there's no tail-wind, but to another observer the wind is still blowing. The column of air is still moving. Overall, the wind provides all; the wheels and props are like some sort of lever. Exactly! The column of air is moving, the vehicle is moving with it...but it cannot move faster than it if it is going in exactly the same direction, only if it is at an angle so as to take advantage of a crosswind component...something non-existent while moving in the same direction. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

Sure, it's called a planetary gearset. There is no extra power involved in spinning the gears any faster. You gain speed but reduce torque while maintaining the equation horsepower=(torque*rpm)/5250. No extra power is needed nor added to achieve the goal (neglecting additional friction losses due to higher bearing speeds). But that situation is not similar at all to a wind powered vehicle. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

It's not a cycle. the wind pushes on the vehicle(and blades) which rolls the wheels that spin the prop. The prop bites into the incoming wind that would provide drag on the prop and decreases any drag that would otherwise halt acceleration beyond wind speed and throw it back towards the tail-wind(the only real source of power). the tail-wind plus the positive pressure at the back of the blades and vacuum in front of the blades allows the chasis to speed up past the speed of the tail-wind. The wind is pushing on the cushion of air as a result of the spinning of the blades now. Not the blades themselves. I believe that if there wasn't any loss of energy from the wheels turning the prop, the vehicle could theoretically accelerate to infinity instead of meeting some speed equilibrium. Once wind speed is matched there is no longer a tailwind. Without energy being added somewhere to the system it will not go any faster. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

One more time: THE WHEELS POWER THE PROP, AND NOT VICE VERSA. The force generated by the spinning prop is applied to the vehicle as thrust against the prop's mounting pylon. That thrust moves the vehicle. I understand that is what they are claiming, but you cannot use the wheels to power the prop to push the vehicle to spin the wheels to power the prop to push the vehicle to spin the wheels..... There has to be energy coming into the system from somewhere. As long as the vehicle feels an apparent wind against the prop it can work...to an extent. But as soon as the vehicle and the wind are at the same speed in the same direction, there IS no apparent wind...from ANY direction... and all source of energy is lost. Any stored in the system as momentum is quickly lost through friction and drag. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

DUDE! I didn't know you and Divot and Billy were kin!! Shhhhhhh! (Was it my bibs that gave it away?) HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

So if I'm to lower my standards........(skinny girl who isn't bat shit crazy).....when will you ladies lower your standards and go for pudgy guys with poor hygiene? After all it's an equal opportunity world here. edit, Speaking to a friend who is a Chem E regarding body type and location of birth and she really had some interesting thoughts as to the type of food we eat here in the states as kids and how they alter how our bodies develope. Where by in the EU the food is resher and lower in artifical colors and every one walks or bikes to and from work and school while we in the US eat way too much processed food and drive to and from every location. This family was raised on 100% natural home-grown and harvested food. They walk everywhere they go. I think one picture blows your friend's theory clean out of the water! HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

How so? Power in>Power out. I explained it farther up. Say the wheels can develop 4 hp. Transmit that 4 hp to the prop and just for sake of argument we'll neglect losses in the transmission. I'll even give you a very efficient prop and let 90% of that 4 hp be converted to thrust. That's only 3.6 hp being used to drive the vehicle. Where do you get the other .4 hp? It can't come from the wind since the vehicle is moving at the same speed and in the same direction. The prop cannot develop thrust and transmit power back to the wheels at the same time since it needs a relative wind to do that and there is none. So...where does the power come from to replace that lost through drag and friction? HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

Yes. Since the start... The propeller blades movement is not directly in line with the wind. No, I get that part. But once the prop is moving in the same direction at the same speed it doesn't matter what direction the blades face or their angle of attack....there is no air moving across them to generate power unless the tires turn the prop, and that robs more power than you get back. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

You are still trying to create energy. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

But what happens when that sail is going the same exact direction and same exact speed as the wind? Observation is that there is no relative wind available to do anything...the sail and the air around it are moving together and a person on that boat would feel no wind (but this obviously can't happen because of the drag of the water). Am I missing something? HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

First off I am not an aero engineer and will leave those calculations to someone who is. Second, you cannot create energy. What I mean is, you can't generate 300 units of energy from the wheels and transform it into 450 units at the prop. That violates the laws of physics which is why this machine cannot operate the way they claim. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

I'm back!!! Nice 7-day timeout served. I agree with most posters here that she is doing this for publicity. Yeah, she's easy on the eyes and a pro photographer can snap some shots and Photoshop them to be worthy of a Playboy centerfold. But her claims are most likely bs. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

Lacking any other source of propulsion the vehicle must rely on one of three things; the wheels to drive it forward, the prop to create thrust, or the wind to push it. For the wheels to drive they need power from the prop. That is no problem as long as there is air moving past the prop similar to a wind tower. That moving air diminishes as the vehicle approaches wind speed until it reaches zero. At that point there is no air movement to turn the prop. If the vehicle, by jibing, can exceed wind speed and the vehicle is then turned to go directly downwind, they now have a realtive headwind that works against them no matter what they do. It can be used to turn the prop, but drag losses would quickly surpass any energy harnessed. The prop can create thrust if driven by the wheels. Problem is, the wheels have to be driven by something other than the prop (it's that darn energy conservation thing again). That is where the wind pushing it (like a sail) comes in. But once again, this diminishes as wind speed is approached until there is zero relative wind to give the "push". I have no doubt their vehicle can reach the speeds they claim, but only if it is jibed like a sailboat. It doesn't take much, just a few degrees off wind direction will allow speeds faster than the wind. But it still is not directly downwind. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

Wrong. The prop is powered by the wheels, and is turning in the opposite direction it would be turning if it was freewheeling and being spun by the wind. When the vehicle is moving at wind speed, the prop is pulling and applying a force to it's pylon. You need to let go if this fixation on wind speed. Power is extracted from the wind and applied as force to the vehicle. There is no law that says force must be directly proportional to the speed of the power source, else levers and transmissions could not exist. The way it is supposedly working is that the wheels turn the prop that creates thrust that pushes the vehicle which causes the wheels to turn.... problem is, when the vehicle is at wind speed there is no energy available to replace that which is lost through drag. Levers and gears (which are just rotary levers) can increase force at the expense of distance, or increase distance at the expense of force, but they can never increase both. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.