Belgian_Draft

Ok, but why? What is special about today's marriages that warrants giving them special treatment? HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

Why is it that married couple enjoy benefits that single couples don't? Tax breaks in some situations, insurance coverage, etc. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

You ain't from around here, are you? You kill your bride if she IS a virgin. "If she ain't good enough for her own family, she ain't good enough for ours." Must be West-by-God-Virginia. Where the men are men, the women are scarce, and the sheep are nervous. Where they practice safe sex by tagging the sheep that kick. Where the toothbrush was invented. (Had it been invented elsewhere it would be called a teethbrush)

To the best of my knowledge, he's not trying to force any new word definition on anybody. However, I don't read "People" magazine or watch TV, so I don't really know what he's up to. Eh, he's up to a couple fifths and one really ignorant comment per day about now. But those are just his averages. Actual daily figures vary considerably. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

OK, I have my popcorn and beer. Flame on!

Wait...before anybody replies let me get some popcorn. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

Agreed. And someday the general public will wonder why our generation had a hard time accepting gay unions as marriages. You've done a good job explaining your viewpoint, I understand it, and I'm not going to come at you over it, but this comment brings up a question. If the definition of marriage has evolved, and you feel it may again eventually, then what is your stance on amending constitutions (state or federal) to "lock down" the definition to being hetero-only when it appeared to be undergoing said evolution (i.e. after gay people started getting married)? As an aside, I can appreciate getting put in a defensive stance. I got "yelled at" for something I didn't even write. (see post #60) Oh, no doubt I would be againt ANY Constitutional ammendment of that nature. As you know I don't like gay couples using the word "marriage" but it's not something I would actively try to prevent. It's is going to happen (socially accepted change in the definition) and i believe Merriam-Webster already includes same-sex couples in their definition of "marriage". HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

Agreed. And someday the general public will wonder why our generation had a hard time accepting gay unions as marriages. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

Bother me? No, it just tends to pique my interest when someone gets so evasive, defensive and angry about being asked anything at all about an opinion they have offered in public. Makes me wonder what it is about their thinking that they're so ashamed of. Ashamed of? Nope, sorry. I am not ashamed of my opinions. Evasive? If you call offering your opinion and the reasons you hold that opinion evasive, then guilty as charged. Defensive? Yep. I usually do defend myself when attacked. It's that damned self preservation instinct. Angry? Again, yep. It goes with the defensive thing. If you kick a skunk because he smells a little, guess what happens? HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

Yes. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

Oh, I see. So you're appropriating the word marriage based solely on how it has applied to the recent history of your immediate family. And while you don't mind at all describing your relative's relationships with a word that you believe has historically carried strong connotations of slavery, attaching that same word to a relationship that may involve sodomy goes one step too far. Do you see where the confusion comes in? Yep. It comes from your inability to understand how personal observations are a much stronger influence on a persons ideals and frame of mind than anything they read. Why does it bother you so terribly that I am bothered a teensy little bit about the use of a word? HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

800 students is all he could rally? 800??? The Cleveland Indians of the 70's and 80's used to attract bigger crowds than that. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

Read my other posts, Bill. I explained that my ideals of marriage were based on my observations of my parents, grandparents, and great-grandparents. Jakee asked what I thought marriage was like throught the ages and i told him. Nobody asked for, or gave, a definition. In fact, as far as i can tell, nobody has posted a definition in this entire thread. So you shouldn't have been surprised at all since there was no basis for it. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

I'm gonna stick my neck out here and defend Belgian Draft. He was reluctant to post his opinion because he knew that because he holds a conservative and non pc viewpoint he was going to get hammered. He did post it and his initial post reflected views that are shared by probably billions of people on the planet. Having a bunch of people dissect your words and trying to "re-educate" you makes it pretty easy to trip over yourself and say stupid things you don't mean as you try and express your opinion. Right back at the beginning he simply stated that in his view the word marriage was taken. Think about it like a trademark if you like. For sentimental reasons he would like the word to remain as it is - he's not against gays and said as much. He just wants it to remain that when people say that got married his mental picture to be of grandma and apple pie or mum walking down the aisle in a white dress. Finally Wendy asked why same-sex marriage is wrong in her OP, he said there was nothing wrong with it and he just didn't like it having the same name. Thank you :) HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

I did not post a definition of marriage. Jakee asked, "just what do you think marriage was generally like in times gone by?". He asked me what I thought it was like in the past. He did not ask for a definition. I am not aruing for the sake of argument. Wendy asked for opinion, I posted mine with a warning that some people would get their panties in a wad over it, which they did. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

Nope. Read my response to jakee above and you'll know why. You know, Bill, the more shit people give me about not wanting gay unions to be called marriages, the more I am inclined to just turn against all gay rights. People, like any animal, tend to turn on those who attack them, even for nit picky shit like the meaning of a word. It's funny that my being bothered a little bit bothers you and jakee so much. I never knew my opinion meant so much to you two. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

I don't. My ideas of marriage are from what I observed between my parents, grandaparents, great-grandparents. Anything further back than that I haven't a clue as to what their marriage was like. My ideals are based on my observations, not suppositions. If that is what you wanted to know then you should have asked. You asked what I thought their ancestors were like, not if I had any in common. Depending upon who is being compared to whom, you may find common ancestors just a few generations back or you may have to go back thousands. My ancestory is English and Hungarian. If you try to find a common ancestor with a gay African you will have trouble. ***Then how is it that you've provided answers in this post that are unlike anything you've previously written in this thread?" Because some people, you included, pretty much know what the answer is going to be before even asking certain questions. I have no doubt you knew what my response was going to be but you weren't going to be happy until you saw it in writing. If you had read my first post in this thread you wouldn't need to even ask since it was people like you that prompted a good portion of that post. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

Coming from someone who can't negotiate his own employment contract. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

Fine, I'll respond so you'll quit pouting. One man, one woman sharing a houshold usually for mutual benefit and usually (but not always) to raise a family. Often it was a matter of ownership, almost near slavery. Hmmm....probably some straight couples in there somewhere. But it doesn't matter in the least since i never mentioned how i felt about gay people ancestors or how they felt about mine. I only mentiuoned how Ifelt about myancestors. Everybody is free to view their ancestors any way they wish. You wrote, "In this thread you've challenged Shropshire's reasoning when he wasn't talking to you". Well, he posted this little ditty..."And they can call it a Marriage if they won't - some may think that word is 'taken' but it's not, it's just a word and language is ever evolving. If it gets up other peoples noses - Fuck em. It's non of their damned business." Unless you live on Mars you can see that remark was aimed at my earlier post. I responded to Bill's post to point out a fact, not to give an opinion or to degrade his. "They're not and they weren't. You've given an incomplete response (which is what I replied to) but you certainly haven't answered." Yes, they are. If you had read my posts, especially the very first one, you would have enough of an understanding to answer your own questions. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

Oh, are going to cry now? I didn't challenge anyone who didn't challenge me first either directly or indirectly. Giving Wendy my opinion, which she requested, was NOT an open invitation for people to demand I defend that opinion. Grow up. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

That happens when you're in prison. Cite? Suicide watch and harsh words from the guards aren't torture, sorry. He has no internet. Hell, they won't even give him a PS3! The horror! What is this country coming to? HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

The word "marriage" is legally used by people such as myself who have no intention of raising a family. I have also been divorced and re-married, and some people have been married many times. And there are probably many opposite-sex married couples who have lifestyles that you or someone else may find disgusting. Yes, the word "marriage" is already used, but not necessarily by people who have the same reverence for the word that you have. I never said it should only be used by couples raising a family. So if people who don't want to raise a family aren't insulting the commitment to raising a family, it must be about the lifestyle: now... just what do you think marriage was generally like in times gone by? Without the rose tinted glasses, please. (And it's interesting that you talk about 'your' ancestors. Who do you think the ancestors of gay people were?) See, Wendy, why I was hesitant to respond to your thread? People notice somebody doesn't agree with them...even in the slightest little way...and they feel they have to change their mind. Sorry, jakee, but you're questions are going to go unanswered. I answered Wendy's questions. I feel no need or desire to have to defend my position to you. Besides, if you had read my posts you would see your questions are redundant in that the answers were given before the question was even asked. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

That is quite an assertion. One that can be neither proven nor disproved. But I still wonder how you arrived at such a conclusion. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

That was the point I was trying to make. You slammed another poster's point on the basis that he didn't understand genetics, when you didn't seem to understand it yourself. Just struck my as ironic and mildly hypocritical. What I was slamming was his assertion that, "You can't select for a trait by applying selective pressure for just a few generations". That is fundamentally wrong. Anybody who was raised on a farm will tell you just how quickly selective breeding affects a bloodline. An example of how quickly it can work: In humans, Cystic Fibrosis is prevented by the CFTR gene. Most people have two of these genes. As long as one is ok they will not have CF. If both are defective, they will have CF. Both parents have to have at least one defective gene. When each parent has one defective gene the chances are one in four that their child will develope CF. If we wanted to play God (or Hitler) we could test every person when they are born and sterilize those that have a defective gene. By doing that we would wipe out CF in one generation. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

You *really* didn't get it... I only mentioned inbreeding because people are most closely genetically similar to their family - I used inbreeding to explain genetics (which you seem not to have a clear understanding of). I did NOT use inbreeding to explain hypertension in African Americans descended from slaves. You made that connection - not me. You are correct, I am not an expert on genetics by any means. So i don't know what point you were trying to make other than, "There is a reason why (some) dog and cat breeders like to create "pure breeds"... Yes, they may be more susceptible to some ailments, but also they are more likely to display the characterictics they like in that particular breed.", which only reinforces the argument Jimmy the Greek was making but I don't think that was your intent. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.