Belgian_Draft

I'm sorry if you think somebody claims to be an expert just because they have a bit of experience. A good reason to stopp assuming things about people. Again, sorry you assume things. And you have shut me down nowhere but you have looked like a fool trying. I Did? Where oh where did I say that? I not only know what alloys can be welded using what methods, I know WHY. Do you? Thought not. I will leave the choice of whether to use the word "expert" up to you since you seem to be the only one who knows what an expert is. The only thing I claimed was just what i wrote. Again, I am sorry you have to try to read into it what just isn't there. I graduated from college 20 years ago. Sorry to disappoint you. No, you only mentioned p-factor makes the plane want to turn. The question was very specifically asking about how the direction of rotation...NOT JUST ROTATION ITSELF...influences takeoff handling. Very simple question, you won't admit you haven't a clue. You said carb icing starts at 20F. Very simple, straightforward remark. Unfortunately it is wrong. I told you why and provided FAA documentation. So YOU can go tell the FAA they are wrong, don't tell me. I will hold by the rule of thumb that icing can happen in virtually any weather conditions, thank you. I would rather be watching for it and not get it then vice versa. ***Well, to be fair, i did concede that "short final" can and does mean different things to each pilot/aircraft combination. To me, flying 152/172s, my short final is that...SHORT!! For me it is the 200-300 feet before touchdown. " Yep, I posted that. Do you have problems understanding that there is no cut and dried definition of what a short final is? What part of that sentence do you find wrong or improper? You are very funny to watch squirm. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

Please show where I said that. Your party? Which one would that be? You must not pay attention or just outright ignore information given you because, as I've said many times, I don't side with any one party over another. I'm glad you have resorted to PAs. Classic example of what happens when the facts don't back up your argument. But watching you squirm is very entertaining. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

Stop using phrases Lucky doesn't understand. Poor little guy. Funny how everybody that doesn't agree with him is "sticking together" as if it were some sort of plot against him. Theres a word for that but I can't think of what it is. Oh well. Lucky will let us know. After all, he is a contract attorney, economics wizard, aircraft designer above par, and most likely a psychologist and an MD as well! HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

I never proposed to be an expert on contract law, you have. Nor did i ever say I was an expert in aircraft structure. Feel free to chack back through all posts. Yes, I am a low time pilot. I didn't know hundreds of hours of flight time were required to understand aircraft design and construction. Actually I have developed weld and heat treat processes for many alloys. My first job out of college was working with a compamy that specializes in just that. I can multitask just fine when the need arises. I also know when not to. I think Bill can speak for himself. Unlike you he can accept other peoples viewpoint. I never said anything about short final being one minute out. That was all you, buddy. All you. I asked you what affect the direction of rotation of the prop has on takeoff handling. DIRECTION, not just the fact that the prop is rotating. I ams orry you can't understanmd a very, very, very simple question even after i went to great lengths to reword the question in fine detail so there could be no room for confusion. Anything else you want to say to make yourself look like an even bigger fool? HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

My side? You keep forgetting I voted for Obama. I don't really consider myself, at the moment, to be much aligned with either party. Both do more to piss me off than to make me feel warm and cozy. I was just looking over some posts here and noticed a commonality with other threads you have been posting in lately. It is glaringly obvious that, in almost every thread, you are arguing against almost everyone else. Did you ever stop to think that maybe..just maybe...you are wrong? You might want to consider the possibility. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

Porn! Porn! Kallend is posting porn! HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

True, but I think we'll see a permantent shift here. And we are in a period of emergency with the debt and HC mess, so revolutionary times are here. After people get HC and are happy, could you see the next Repub on campaign? Every time the HC issue comes close, peopel, even Reoubs will be thinking.....you wanna take away my HC, don't you? A lot of now angry Repubs will become quit, closet Dems for fear of losing hC. Not to mention the young and minorities that will benefit and have been awakened in 08. Curtains, probably not, but it could be in time. Have you forgotten 1994 when the Dems lost control of both the House and Senate? The media had all but written the Dems obituary. True, but the pres was Dem and popular, so that offset it. He won by a massive margin in 96, even won AZ, which is a rarity here. Yep. And I will bet you dollars to donuts that in a few years...maybe 1, maybe 3, maybe 7.....the Republican party will be back on it's feet. It's just a cycle. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

True, but I think we'll see a permantent shift here. And we are in a period of emergency with the debt and HC mess, so revolutionary times are here. After people get HC and are happy, could you see the next Repub on campaign? Every time the HC issue comes close, peopel, even Reoubs will be thinking.....you wanna take away my HC, don't you? A lot of now angry Repubs will become quit, closet Dems for fear of losing hC. Not to mention the young and minorities that will benefit and have been awakened in 08. Curtains, probably not, but it could be in time. Have you forgotten 1994 when the Dems lost control of both the House and Senate? The media had all but written the Dems obituary. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

You've never riveted on a semi-trailer, have you? I imagine you probably don't even have a clue as to the construction of one. Well, if you must know, I had almost 15 years experience working in a steel and aluminum fab shop before i ever set foot in a college classroom. Started fabbing at 9, started college classes at 23. So, yes, I have a lot of hands on knowledge and instruction in the theory behind it. Could you be given a sample of a new alloy and develope a welding or heat treat procedure for it? What about work hardnening? Could you look at the composition of an alloy and know where to start? I highly doubt it. I believe Bill and I understand where each other is coming from on the short final issue. If he feels otherwise I am confident he will let me know without resorting to insults and irrational assumptions. You still don't get how rotation DIRECTION influences handling on takeoff. Ok, fine. Sit back in your chair and learn something, if you are capable. P-factor is the tendency of an aircraft to pitch and/or yaw when the prop disk is not perpendicular to the relative wind due to differences in angle of attack. Pretty simple and I am sure you already knew that. The aircraft will attempt to roll opposite the prop direction due to engine torque. Again, very simple and I am sure you already knew that. Gyroscopic precession is one that you missed. When a force is applied to a spinning gyroscope, such as a prop, the force is expressed 90 degrees in the plane of rotation ahead of where it is applied. In a typical right-hand rotation (as viewed from the cockpit) small aircraft this results in a yaw to the right when the aircraft is pitched up. Slipstream effect. The spiraling slipstream around the aircraft will hit the tail. This tends to also yaw and pitch the aircraft. How all of these affect the aircraft on takeoff is dependent upon DIRECTION OF ROTATION if all else is held constant. Offset thrust lines, etc are measures taken to minimizes these tendencies. If I am mistaken on any of these points I welcome input from anyone, especially Prof Kallend since I believe besides teaching aeronautics he is also an accomplished pilot and his input would be most welcome. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

Oh, c'mon, Bill. Chernobyl almost worked! HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

People were saying the same thing about the Democratic Party several years back. And the Repubs before that. And the Dems before that...... HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

Aliuminum panels on semi-trailers With only 2 or 3 exception I have worked with, at one time or another, either in research or industry every alloy either of us have posted here and many more. That's hands-on work, not virtual. Nope. Never said I was. You're still not getting it. The question was how the direction of rotation of the prop influence takeoff handling of an aircraft. Let me spell it out for you: If you take a prop engine aircraft and change the direction of rotation of the engine (and swap out the prop for one made for that rotation), what effects will that have on the takeoff handling and why? P-factor is only one and you ahven't even come close to the essence of it yet. Bill and I agreed that "short final" means different things to different pilots. What I consider short final is at a point where the aircraft will make the runway no matter what happens short of a wing falling off. In that case there is no time and little use in trying to restart the engine. Best move is to just fly the aircraft and get it down safe, worry about troubleshooting later. Sorry if you don't like it but that's the way i was taught by a retired pilot with Korea and Vietnam F-86 and F-104 experience. So, if you don't mind terribly, I will take his advice over yours. Oh, btw, he also taught the attitude of "screw the charts, just remember that carb ice can happen in almost any weather conditions". Even at -20C. Now, if you want to call three miles out "short final", then by all means have at it. So, are you going to address the OP or keep making assumptions based on things you know nothing about? HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

Uh, Mr. Knowledge, where did I say i worked in aviation? I didn't. I'm sorry you have such a bad understanding of the conditions under which carb ice can form. You said it starts at 20F. That is wrong. I provided documantation from the FAA to show that carb ice can form almost 20 degrees lower than that. You said carb ice, you didn't say how much or the severity of it. I am familiar with all alloys used in aircraft construction and most aerospace alloys. Too bad you are only familiar with a handfull of the more common ones. Some of the more advanced alloys are very interesting, espcially the Al-Li alloys that cannot be welded by most fusion processes yet the new shuttle tanks are made from them. It may be news to you but those alloys you mentioned are used in other industries as well. I think we have played this little game of 20 questions long enough since you still haven't answered one of my first ones concerning prop rotation. I won't bother answering any more questions you have posed since when I do you either accuse me of googling for an answe, cutting and pasting, or you claim you taught me. Yeah, right. Now, do you have anything pertaining to the OP? HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

Actually, i was fishmouthing tubing and welding it when i was www.faa.gov/ats/afss/newyork/ENROUTE.htm There ye go. You said icing. You never said anything about the severity of icing. Yeah, like you know about precip hardening of aluminum. Give me a break. No cut-n-paste here. All from experience. BTW, I have substantial hearing loss in my right ear from bucking rivets for many years, often with no ear protection for "just these two". Sorry you aren't familiar with an English wheel. They are really handy to have in a shop since hydroforming is a process most repair shops don't have the room for or the cash to afford to have in house. There is more than one way to skin a cat, I gave you two. English wheel swre MADE for forming compound curves. You obviously have very little knowledge of shop techniques. If I needed a part formed and welded there are several alloys to choose from. Alloy selection depend upon application. To say "I wouyld use this alloy" without knowing where and how it is to be used is ignorance at it's best. I used chemical milling one time for clearencing the spur gears in an oil pump I made for a friend. It is not a practice that is used much for many reasons. I have posted my occupation in other threads but if you must know I am an engineer. I have a BSME but that was many years ago and am now more of a general engineer. I work on a lot of different projects but specialize in none. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

Most of their funding comes from bake sales. Bake sales that feature brownies. Really special brownies. It's why they all have the munchies over there. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

Carb ice starts at 20F? According to this chart, published by the FAA, it starts at -20C. (thats about 0F) Best hit the books, Mr. Knowledge. Yes, the rivets get hard when they get warm. Which also cause them to become too brittle for reliable installation since they are made of, generally, 2017 or 2024 aluminum, both of which are precipitation hardening alloys. They are annealed first, then placed on dry ice to slow the precipitation of the nucleats. Time is limited before they must be annealed agian or the result is an aircraft held together with rivets that are fractured when the shop head is formed. Not a good thing and it has happened in industry by A&P mechanics who thought they knew everything. Blind rivets. Rivet puller is placed over the rivet pin and the rivet pin is drawn into the rivet body causein it to swell. If that is not how a blind rivet works, then I've been doing it wrong. Oh shit...I know I am because, according to you, there is only one step! You're the young pup, buddy. I got ya beat by more than ten years! ***Here's one for ya, how do you form parts from raw material if they have compound shapes? What material type, what otehr processes. HINT: the compounds are such that you can't use typical 2024 T-3, 7075 T-6, so what do you use? English wheels are great for forming 3003, 5052, 6061, etc. Which alloy to use depends upon how much cold working it will recieve, where it will be used, desired corrosion resistence, etc. But, at times lacking a wheel, sandbags and leather paddles do an acceptable job but its hard to beat a wheel for planishing out a weld. So, now that we have established that you are an aircraft mechanic, we have also established that you know no more about what decisions were made behind closed doors at Boeing than you do about the stock market. I find it very interesting that, being blue collar, you called blue collar workers stupid. It's sad to see a man have such a low opinion of himself. Have a nice day.

Well, to be fair, i did concede that "short final" can and does mean different things to each pilot/aircraft combination. To me, flying 152/172s, my short final is that...SHORT!! For me it is the 200-300 feet before touchdown. In that area if the engine quits there is not going to be time to restart and it would not be needed anyway unless I am on a very, very low approach. Like you said, first responsibility is to fly the aircraft. No sense doing things that can possibly distract from that and would, most likely, have no influence on the outcome. Get the plane on the ground safe. Once it's down and stopped, then the troubleshooting can begin. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

Icing starts at 20F? Wrong. Try again. Better yet, find out before it gets you. PP training is usually done in aircraft that gross around 1200-1800 lbs and cruise between 120-140 knots. Those figures put a standard rate turn (for small aircraft that is 180/minute) at a bank angle of 20 degrees, +- a couple. I don't know what kind of aircraft would need a bank of 45 to accomplish an SRT, let alone 80-90. If you are on short final and your engine quits, I hope I'm not in there with you. To do anything but put 100% of your concentration on putting the plane on the runway at that point is irresponsible and adds unneeded risk to the flight. I don't know how far out you call short final, but I don't consider it until i can make the runway no matter what happens short of the aircraft falling apart in flight. Since there is quiet a variation in who considers what to be short final, I'll give you credit (and you DID say neither, which is correct) I am vary familiar with counter rotating props and offset thrust lines. Blind rivets are set by a draw and swell process. If you have other processes that are called the same, then fine. BTW, I would be VERY interested to know how you can possibly install a blind rivet in one step. If you have a method you should copyright it...you could make a fortune!! I am no kid, I will be celebrating 1/2 century of being on this planet in a couple years. Would you care to finish telling me what affect the direction of prop rotation has on the takeoff handling of an aircraft? You stated p-factor, but that is only one influence of several. Dry ice. You have a good start at answering. It is used to keep rivets very cold until they are ready to install. Now tell me why they have to be kept cold and what happens when they are not. Saying "they get brittle" isn't detailed enough. You need to tell me why they get brittle. Or you can just forget the 20 questions and post something that actually relates to the OP. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

Blind riveting. My turn. In what way is dry ice used in the assembly of aircraft, what can be the result if procedure is not followed, and why. Details please. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

Ok, tyhis is getting pretty boring. You think opinion is proof and nobody can convince you otherwise. Well, you're wrong. Opinion is not proof. Can't be any more plain than that but I will be surprised if you can comprehend it. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

Hey, son, I am aviation. I wish I wasn't, but I am. Those 3rd grade questions are so elementary I was yawning as I was typing. Tell me this: What is the technique of swelling and drawing while riveting acft structure? Only way you get it is if someone pipes in in PM. Google won't even help you I don't think. So why did you miss two out of three? 20 degrees is the normal bank angle for a standard rate turn, but it can vary according to airspeed. Anybody who has taken an introductory flight knows that. On short final the proper action to take if your engine fails is to just keep flying the aircraft. You are within a few seconds of touching down and chances of finding the problem and restarting are very small. Since on short final airspeed is very near stall speed the last thing you want to be doing is fidgeting around the cockpit when any small error is magnified and could easily result in a new hole in the ground. But you did ok on the P-factor, but then that is one that can easily be found with google. Even though p-factor is only one phenomenon that is affected by direction of rotation I felt sorry for you and gave you full credit for the question. Final grade: 33% If you are any kind of pilot you would do well to take a couple days to review the basics. It shouldn't take long. After all, it's all pretty elementary. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

You should follow your own advice. I wonder how long it would take for him to delete almost 6400 posts? HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.

How's the check ride going? Need any help googling the answers? HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit.