micro

If it happens it will be because they are predisposed to do it, not on account of a few words in a US congressional resolution. The US is NOT the world's policeman. Tell the truth. And the fact that there is pressure to do this RIGHT NOW has no bearing on... anything? The truth should be told... no one is denying that. (Did I hear anyone deny that it should be said? No. Did you? No.) But it should be told PRUDENTLY. At the right TIME. I'm not at all surprised that you are for this, given the potential effect it will have on a war that you despise. How long do you recommend we wait - another 92 years? Until such a declaration will not be a pawn by the left. Until it is prudent to do make such a declaration, when the possibility for casualties has been minimized as much as possible. I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And...

And from where exactly did you get your stats that the ones "sponging off the system... are a small minority?" From working in the inner city for 30 years, dealing with inner city parents, teaching inner city kids in summer school, hiring inner city residents, shopping in inner city shops... Now, what is "completely pro welfare"? Thank you for your reply. I recognize that your experience has merit. I have noticed however that you seldom recognize anyone elses experience as having any merit at all if it doesn't fit into your worldview. Previous posts from today come to mind. As for "completely pro welfare," I'll answer that question (which should be self-explanatory) when you answer my questions from a previous post in this thread. I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And...

I can indeed say it, but "ulterior" would be preferable. What would Jesus do? Tell the truth, no doubt. Thanks professor. I'm sure you feel better about yourself having corrected me. Once again, you've avoided the POINT of the post and instead insisted on focusing on an incidental. What would Jesus do? You're right. He'd tell the truth. But since you don't believe in Jesus, what do you care? Kind of silly for you to bring Him up, n'est-ce pas? ! Not at all, since you are reading the thread. Practice what you preach, micro. If Turkey attacks northern Iraq, the only party to blame is Turkey. We are not forcing them to do it by reminding them of their unsavory history. Ugh. John, never ever ever run for any office of any kind. Ever. And thanks for only quoting a snipit of my post... selective quoting is something you're good at. World history is replete with examples like this. There is nothing to be gained AT THIS MOMENT by making this declaration but MUCH TO BE LOST. But that's just the point isn't it? You're really more interested in the "much to be lost" aspect, aren't you. If by our declaration, violence erupted b/t the turks and the kurds, we would be partially to blame. Did we cause them directly to attack? No. For they are men of free-will (and NOT predisposed, as you claim). However, there are still causal agents involved and we would be one of them. Tact, diplomacy, timing. Making this declaration will do much more harm than good. I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And...

If it happens it will be because they are predisposed to do it, not on account of a few words in a US congressional resolution. The US is NOT the world's policeman. Tell the truth. And the fact that there is pressure to do this RIGHT NOW has no bearing on... anything? The truth should be told... no one is denying that. (Did I hear anyone deny that it should be said? No. Did you? No.) But it should be told PRUDENTLY. At the right TIME. I'm not at all surprised that you are for this, given the potential effect it will have on a war that you despise. I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And...

I can indeed say it, but "ulterior" would be preferable. What would Jesus do? Tell the truth, no doubt. Thanks professor. I'm sure you feel better about yourself having corrected me. Once again, you've avoided the POINT of the post and instead insisted on focusing on an incidental. What would Jesus do? You're right. He'd tell the truth. But since you don't believe in Jesus, what do you care? Kind of silly for you to bring Him up, n'est-ce pas? And timing is indeed relevant here. Is this pronouncement likely to cause harm to a) kurds and/or turks b) our troops c) others involved in that region? If the answer is yes, then even Jesus would tell you to shut the hell up and wait until the right time. Jesus could teach you and Pelosi a thing or two about timing. After all, He waited 30 years to spring on them Jews! I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And...

And from where exactly did you get your stats that the ones "sponging off the system... are a small minority?" And i notice that you have ignored my previous post to you... am I surprised? no I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And...

And also interesting that this is "so important now" when the dems are failing to shut down the war in iraq like they wanted to. trying to smear general patreaus certainly backfired on them. So now they wanna stir some shit and sabotage our relationship with Turkey? Can you say "alterior motive?" Of course, your point is terribly important as well... and i fear for the possible consequences if this moves forward. I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And...

No, we have a welfare system in ths country because the left has to buy the votes they need to stay in office and keep power. They do this because they have not given any ideas (other than welfare) that anybody would vote for. that's a good point... who do you think the people on welfare and esp. those who abuse welfare are going to vote for but those who want the system to continue. It's guaranteed votes! I heard someone say once that people on welfare shouldn't be allowed to vote b/c their vote is influenced by one the very parties who is running for office. Essentially, their votes have been bought. I'm not sure I completely agree w/ that thought, but it made me stop and think a little bit. I wonder if anyone here is completely pro-welfare has ever spoken to someone who successfully gotten OFF of welfare. I have, when I worked as a therapist in a non-profit mental health center in nashvill TN. the sense of accomplishment and self-respect that returns to people once they finally start earning a living is just infectious. granted... i'll be the first to admit there will always be some in society who CAN'T do that... elderly, disabled, etc. I'm NOT talking about them. so don't even bring that shit up. I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And...

Put your glasses on John, then go re-read my post. I'll wait. Back? Ok... once more... you can quit -at any time- attempting to discern motives behind anything I say on here... I'll tell you straight up what they are. And I have. Since you insist on living in the past (i.e. the inquisition, now the depression), let's go ahead and look at it... let me ask you some questions John... 1. Why was charity not up to the task during the depression? 2. Was the welfare program intended to be a permenant or temporary solution? 3. Does it make fiscal sense to tax people during a depression to finance forced charity? 4. Is the government effective in distributing it's charitable monies? 5. Are you ever capable of NOT trying to insult someone's religion or ascribing nefarious motives to their posts? (By the way, have you ever heard the phrase, "you spot it, you got it?") 6. Are personal anecdotes really meaningless in this debate if they could inspire others to make charitable giving a priority in their lives, thus rendering government programs obsolete? I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And...

The journey is, in fact, probably more important than the destination. Mr. Gore does not justify his message by not being an example of conservation. I just detect a whole lot of sour grapes from the right. And I detect a complete absence of logical rebuttals from leftist professors. Just typical one liners. I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And...

Hey thanks for the insults John. I appreciate that you've (as usual) misinterpreted what I've said and slung some slanderous shit from your liberal pie hole in the process. You're such a nice man. Me? I know I'm an asshole and I readily admit it. That's one reason I give so much... it's helps me to change. By publically stating what I give I am in no way "trumpetting" myself or trying to be boastful. If that is the only motive you can see in this, then your myopia is worse than I thought. But I continue to notice that you have avoided any sort of response to my challenge... what do you give in charity, John? Oh, I'm sure I know your response... "none of your business." Well, we can all assume what your motives are for your lack of response. And finally, if I need a lesson in history (which I don't), YOU need a lesson in current events. We are not in a depression and there is plenty to go around, esp. thanks to the tax cuts we have received during this administration. We live in the wealthiest nation on the planet and the food that our nation ALONE produces is enough to feed the entire world. That is a fact. What is also a fact is that government programs to help the needy are ineffective. The very "nanny state" that YOU decry so often is the very one you DEMAND be kept into place to care for those who would suck the govermental tits dry even when they could help themselves. What is needed is not MORE govt. spending but MORE individuals giving. MORE private sector charitable donations. LESS govt. and more TRUE charity. THAT was my true intention in divulging what I give... to say that I believe that my charitable gifts can be much more efficacious when I am in control of how much I give and where the $$ goes, not some stooge in the govt. I don't mind saying what I give, not to boast, but to challenge others to do the same. My family has been blessed beyond measure and in turn we spread it around. We pay it forward. We have to. Because if we don't, we become curmugeonly (sp) old codgers who would rather hold onto what we've amassed and instead have someone ELSE do the charitable giving... like the caring, warm, government. One last little note. The pharmaceutical company I work for has taken charitable giving seriously as well. I work for the worlds largest generic pharmaceutical manufacturer in the world... It's an Israeli company, with world HQ in Tel Aviv. One could make the joke that oh, the Jews are stingy, money grabbing people but it's quite the opposite in this company. We give away a very large amount of medication to a number of charities. But the whole point of this is the following: one of our brand name products in the last fiscal year hit a certain sales goal. So in addition to our year end bonus, the company gave everyone a nice extra... Amex gift cards in for 100 bucks. But the catch was, we couldn't use the cards on ourselves. We had to go find someone who needed something... a new coat, whatever. This completely energized the company. It was amazing to hear the stories of what people did. For example, one person went to a cafe and got to know a waitress who was struggling to make ends meet. Her tip for the cup of coffee was the entire Amex gift card. Some people went further and matched the amount of the gift card to whatever charity or person they gave to. I don't know how many people are in the North American part of our company, that's who got the gift cards. But worldwide we have 40,000 people in the company. That is the kind of company I want to keep working for. I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And...

He can sit behind his computer screen with a video cam and reach millions on Youtube. After all, he invented the damned internet. That's the POST OF THE THREAD right there folks! I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And...

i'm a little late to the show, but she said xians are perfect jews? shit, i know a few jews who'll likely get to heaven long before i do and not just because they're older. "what you did to the least of these, you did to me." as with this comment, i can understand what she's TRYING to say, but she just has such a fucked up way of saying it. there isn't much room for tact and diplomacy in that skinny body of hers. I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And...

So where are the posts from the right with righteous indignation...all I see from the right on the subject of right wing pork barrel spending from the Rubber Stanpers of a Republican Administration and Republican Congress is the huge sound of crickets chirping from our right wing posters in SC. WAR is GOOD WELFARE is BAD Doesn't that sound about right from the right?? I used to expect better of some here. To a point I agree with you. There should be a lot more accountability demanded of the douchebags in office currently. And yes, war is bad, generally speaking. Sometimes it's necessary however. Is welfare necessary? I'd say that the answer is a qualified "no." Temperary assistance to those who may need it, sure. Permenant assistance to those who need it, sure. Permenant assistance to those who DON'T NEED IT? Hell no. Get off the dole. Stop being placated by your nanny, the govt., and get going. It's possible. People have done it. I firmly believe that individuals and private organizations ALWAYS do a MUCH BETTER JOB at helping the needy than does the government. ALWAYS. I've seen it. And there are so many who WANT to help but feel then can't b/c of a strapping tax burden that does not help the needy effectively. I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And...

And... My percentage of giving would probably go a long way in trumping your 12%..in real numbers and time. And.. you sure as hell do not want to pay what I pay in taxes. The difference is.. I DO realize that is what it takes to live in a civilized society.. and I decry waste as much as anyone else.. BUT when I see the level of incompetence and the BILLIONS of our taxes going to the greedy contractors and their fleecing of America.. I want to bitch.... and I want some of the assholes in the Administration who perpetrated this wholesale theft from our treasury to be prosecuted for this level of corruption. I knew it was a mistake to say what I give financially... b/c that just ends up turning into a pissing war. However, no one has yet given any %, have they. As far as what you pay in taxes, that also has a lot to do w/ your LIFESTYLE, and where you live, family, etc. etc. But please... no pissing war on taxes... I pay tons. Do you really want a pissing war on who pays that most? That's just silly. Your insinuation that I am not upset about the fleecing of America and that I don't know what it takes to live in a civilized society is just assinine. But that is what I've come to expect... I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And...

I truely got my answer.. most of you in the right wing would allow for starvation of the needy if it meant a new weapons system for the greedy. So much for all their blathering about being a christian country....that we hear from the right wingers here. I have always believed that a society is judged by how it treats its least fortunate citizens. ...I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God. Matthew 19:24. Tell you what Jeanne... let's get right down to some more "where the rubber hits the road." In the last 5 years, what is the average percentage of your income that you gave to charity last year? Or did you rely on your government and their /sarcasm alert/ purely altruistic motives to distrbute your taxes to the needy? Me, I don't mind paying SOME taxes... it comes w/ living in a civil society... but this pork that the govt. calls it's social spending is a bunch of shit. So, on average, in addition to paying out the NOSE on taxes, I've given almost 12% of my gross to charity. And most of my "right winger" friends either match or EXCEED my giving. Do you match or exceed that? That really is a strawman. Voluntary donations to charity include huge amouts given to churches, opera companies, symphony orchestras, art galleries, museums, etc. and other things that primarily benefit the giver. The majority of the financial giving that my wife and I decide to give is not opera. And it is not to church either. It is to social programs that directly help those in need. Strawman my ass. John, I always put my money where my mouth is. As I've challenged Jeanne, I challenge you too... what have you given? I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And...

I truely got my answer.. most of you in the right wing would allow for starvation of the needy if it meant a new weapons system for the greedy. So much for all their blathering about being a christian country....that we hear from the right wingers here. I have always believed that a society is judged by how it treats its least fortunate citizens. ...I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God. Matthew 19:24. Tell you what Jeanne... let's get right down to some more "where the rubber hits the road." In the last 5 years, what is the average percentage of your income that you gave to charity last year? Or did you rely on your government and their /sarcasm alert/ purely altruistic motives to distrbute your taxes to the needy? Me, I don't mind paying SOME taxes... it comes w/ living in a civil society... but this pork that the govt. calls it's social spending is a bunch of shit. So, on average, in addition to paying out the NOSE on taxes, I've given almost 12% of my gross to charity. And most of my "right winger" friends either match or EXCEED my giving. Do you match or exceed that? I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And...

hmm... isn't this more of the same "do as I say not as I do" crap that so many liberals pull? why is it excusable for them but not for conservatives when they try it? goose and ganders and all of that... i'm not arguing for net effect, i'm arguing for principle. So you expect him to row across the Atlantic if he has a speaking engagement in Italy or Scotland? Good lord John, haven't we covered this already? What a specious comeback! How about commercial flight. But if that is too "everyday man" for him, he could easily charter a much more "green" corporate jet than the G-II and YOU of all people could figure that out. Yawn... I tire of this... I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And...

hmm... isn't this more of the same "do as I say not as I do" crap that so many liberals pull? why is it excusable for them but not for conservatives when they try it? goose and ganders and all of that... i'm not arguing for net effect, i'm arguing for principle. I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And...

Oh yeah I forgot.. most of the right wingers in speakers corner that continually run their mouths dont actually skydive.. My Bad. But since I have never met any right wingers yet who were truely green I guess its still hypocritical to run offf at the mouth about how someone else uses fossil fuels. Your continued inability to argue any inteligible point is just bewildering to me. All you do is spew rhetoric and hot wind, which is suprising, considering how cold it must be in the rarified air that you breathe. Not a thing has changed in the time I've been away. Some people continue to argue with logic and sound reasoning while others just... well, prove their intelligence quotient by the rhetoric they type. I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And...

I just love watching all this class jealousy.. its all ya got... and its hilarious...if not downright sad coming from a bunch of people who waste fuel and have a large carbon footprint every weekend.. That right there is some hypocritical shit. More falacious argumentation from you, red. Diversion and misdirection. This has nothing to do w/ class jealousy at all. To say that it does only tells me that you have NO rebuttal at all. And since you're replying to MY comment, let me remind you that I DO NOT skydive anymore so I do not leave a large carbon footprint every weekend. And, let me also remind you that you've also neglected to comment on my reply to your previous question on whether I ride a bike to work. My dear, I put my money where my mouth is. And I am no bed wetting liberal. So there. I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And...

HIYA MIKE!!! Or should I say Ruprick the Monkey Boy!! Love the avatar. One of my favorite movies Hope you're well. I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And...

No one asked for your opinion..and it does not make a rats ass anyway.... so stuff a sock in it There it is folks, the voice of reason, logic and erudition. When faced with the facts of blatant hypocricy of someone on the left, the atmospherically tall firery red-head just can't say, "yep, that's right, he's a bloody hypocrite." I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And...

Now where did I put my hip waders.. its gettin really deep in here. They do portray themselves as green and they are.. in the things they have fought for for YEARS.. and that does not jibe with right wing ideologs whjo want to deny anything is wrong.. SO you attack him as hypocritical.. wrong... its not in any way hypocritical.. could he use less of course... but WHY should he and his people have to when the opposition does not believe anything is happening anyway... And I would think that all you good "capitalists" would know that "Time is money" The Hypocrisy is making such a big tadoo over his supposed hypocrisy..( nice job comparing him to your right wing sexual deviants) the whole shoot the messenger because you abhor the truth in the message because of YOUR belief systems. And as far as dishonest... DUDE.. you are on percentage supporting far more of the right wing agenda than you have EVER supported anything that approaches moderation.....so dont get all weepy on me now. You still can get a Fox News Fair and Balanced Award wow jeanne, can you actually hear yourself? i mean really. you're all over the place here. you get the nobel prize for least coherent argument. I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And...

THAT'S WHAT AL GORE AND THE GREEN MOVEMENT SHOULD BE DOING IF THEY WERE HONEST! AND THEY WOULD IF AL GORE WASN'T LIVING IN A PRIVATE JET! As I posted, the people (like me) who are railing on Gore about using a private jet DO NOT object to private jets any more than I object to consensual sex among adults. We villify Al Gore because he IS what he claims to despise! He is the living example of excess that is causing this planet to be destroyed. So Jim Baker nails his secretary. Big deal, unless you MAKE YOUR LIVING PREACHING ABOUT FAMILY VALUES. So Al Gore flies a private jet. Big deal, UNLESS YOU MAKE YOUR LIVING VILLIFYING EXCESS USE OF ENERGY. Jeanne, answer my question. If everyone lived like Al Gore, would th environment suffer? If so, he is a wolf in sheep's clothing. I dunno. My guess is that there are other solutions besides a private jet. If he was truly interested in the environment, perhaps a section of a commercial airliner would be okay. But nope, he gets a Gulfstream. Seating for 19. And paid for by someone else. It's the "DO AS I SAY, NOT AS I DO" mentality that is the rought part. Is Gore's use of this private jet "Necessary?" No way. Jeanne, what I am writing is truly an "Inconvenient Truth." It's just not convenient for Gore to do things in ways other that private jet - first class all the way. Nobel Prize for LAWROCKET! I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And...