steveorino

What "tangible evidence" would I look for? steveOrino

Ok, what is apologetics actually supposed to mean in this context - if you think its a decent faith why are you apologising? Since you didn't include a , I'll assume you are serious. DEFINITION: apologetics a·pol·o·get·ics – the branch of theology concerned with the defense or proof of Christianity. steveOrino

I didn't say it was "evidence" for you. I said it was confirmation for me. There is good apologetics on Christianity that would require a lot more space than a forum thread. I simply prefer to tell me people my story. I'm not doing that to convince them. As I said in a previous post. The responsibility of convincing someone the truth about God is not mine. steveOrino

Beowulf meet Hairyjuan, ... Oh, I see you have already met. steveOrino

My experience has shown me "morals are caught, not just taught" No wonder we have the problems we have. They are only doing what they see everyone else doing, including their parents. steveOrino

As I said, I wasn't presenting my experiences as evidence for your faith or lack thereof. I presented it as my reason for faith. I'm not too concerned that you think my faith is subjective and arbitrary. That is how you see it. I'm not sure I can change that. Look how Jesus phrased it: Luke 16:31 "He said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.' So if JC thinks some wouldn't be convinced if he was to rise from the dead and talk directly to them, I see little reason to believe i could convince them. However, I wish you well.

I've taken mine w/o incident, but I don't have an ADD. To an uninformed baggage checker it looks suspicous. steveOrino

Your article is very inspiring. That is one of the reason I love tandems. Keep up the good work! steveOrino

My evidence will not likely persuade you. I don’t believe that is my job. I can share with you my story, but the persuasion part lies in bigger hands. I was born into a Christian home and raised by Christian parents and developed a similar world-view. As I grew older I challenged most of what I grew up believing. I was searching for some sort of proof. I’m very much NOT the scientific person, so I was not seeking that angle. I was seeking more of a confirmation in my spirit. My idea that I have a spirit may have been developed by my upbringing, but it is as real as it can possibly be to me. Part of my journey included the time I was in the service. In 1977 I left my father and my wife in two separate hospitals to go to Airborne school. I never felt so alone in my life. I checked into a Motel 6 outside Benning about 2 AM. Searching for answers I looked into a Gideon's bible in the night stand. It said if you feel lonely, read this: Hebrews 3:13. God has said, "Never will I leave you or forsake you." I prayed to God, "If you are real, please let me know.” I didn't have a vision or anything, but I began to sense a presence and comfort that I could not explain. A few weeks later my wife and father (and mom) drove to Benning to watch me graduate. Some will say, no biggee. However, to me it was the first step on a journey that became more real than life itself. Later my wife accidentally drove over my 18 month old son Drew, and I was told he was killed. I was in a panic, but God assured me he was not forsaking me. Drew turned out fine. No injuries whatsoever, not even a bruise, just a sleeper with tire tracks over it. A few years later I buried my mom & dad in '83 & '85.That same comfort was felt as I watched their coffins descend into the grave. I have 100s of such stories in my life. Right now I lean heavily on God as my son-in-law just return from Irag (3rd tour overseas) and that little baby Drew is now a 23 year old soldier in Afghanistan. The experience I have is one of 'presence' 'comfort' "joy" and 'peace', among other things. It has convinced me beyond a shadow of a doubt. I studied theology twice (Bachelors & Masters degree) and I believe I have a good understanding of apologetics. But so many of the times in SC, what I say in the effort to “prove” God ends up in being twisted around so I prefer to give my personal testimony not as evidence as why you should believe, but why I believe. If you’d seriously like to check out some highly educated Christian apologetics, may I suggest Ravi Zacharias. His work can be found on www.rzim.org steveOrino

What would constitute such evidence in your opinion? steveOrino

Religion and spirituality are very personal things. I'm not sure why I must convince you of its validity. But just in case, what would it take?

What is obtuse about it? steveOrino

That does put much of our (Christians) complaints into perspective doesn't it? I'm growing more radical as I age. I sort of wish Christianty would fall out of vogue in the USA. Now don't get me wrong, I desire everyone to know Christ as savior, but if being Christian was a little less "popular" we'd get rid of the pseudo-christians who are in ministry to make a buck, politicians who claim faith to get elected, etc. Personally, I think the church was stronger in its character when it was persecuted and forced underground. When it became a state religion it went to pot. JMHO steveOrino

Dude, those colors are awesome! (in my best Jeff Spicoli voice) or was that Bill & Ted? Oh, well. steveOrino

Yep, without a doubt I do. The opinions will vary here -- welcome to being moved to Speaker's Corner From Seinfeld... George: God is going to get me for this! Jerry: I thought you didn't believe in God. George: I do for the bad stuff! steveOrino

I didn't know Jerry Garcia was a skydiver! steveOrino

Totally, totally cool! steveOrino

But WHY are YOU picking these rules? You jump 1400 miles away. The pilot has a spotless flying record, with more hours flying a cessna jump plane than anyone in the surrounding 5 states. He has over 2000 jumps and is an AFFI. Quit kidding yourself. This is NOT about your concern for anyone's safety. It is not even about you're such a stickler for the law. It is about getting even for your children being banned from the DZ. steveOrino

Nice. Obviously I was speaking of state religions and personal power/money hungry "preachers". Christianity as defined as being a follower of Christ's teaching did none of that. In fact, quite the opposite. Perhaps it would have been more accurate to say greed, power, carnage and ethnic cleansing incorporated some of Christianity. steveOrino

Shut down every atheist church, revoke their tax exemptions, and fire all the atheists' priests - just fine with me as long as you do the same for all other religions' organizations and leaders. I was referring to atheist idealogies, like the USSR's Communism wasn't built upon atheism, it just incorporates it. Christianity wasn't built upon greed, power, carnage, and ethnic cleansing, it just incorporated it. steveOrino

Shut down every atheist church, revoke their tax exemptions, and fire all the atheists' priests - just fine with me as long as you do the same for all other religions' organizations and leaders. I was referring to atheist idealogies, like the USSR's steveOrino

A buddy of mine had a bass very similar. Beautiful guitar. The mahogony just jumps out at you! steveOrino

Yeah, he actually didn't pass out until 70-100 feet above landing . Look at his eyes. Lights on, no one home. He came to almost immediately upon landing. I held him up and Mel kindof talked to him. His family was walking out the the landing by then and we wanted him to keep his machismo. steveOrino

Do you think it's very wise to judge religion based on the actions of those who abuse it? When the abuse is as widespread as it has been throughout all history, YES, I believe the only logical explanation is that there is a systemic problem with religion. Atheism hasn't been that kind either. We better abolish it. steveOrino

My wife always gets out the bleach and sprays (drowns) them. Of course we have stone tile floors. steveOrino