jenfly00

I don't usually like, let alone pass along, these so-called heart-warming stories, but this one is truly interesting... In 1986, Mkele Mbembe was on holiday in Kenya after graduating from Northwestern University. On a hike through the bush, he came across a young bull elephant standing with one leg raised in the air. The elephant seemed distressed, so Mbembe approached it very carefully. He got down on one knee and inspected the elephant's foot and found a large piece of wood deeply embedded in it. As carefully and as gently as he could, Mbembe worked the wood out with his hunting knife, after which the elephant gingerly put down its foot. The elephant turned to face the man, and with a rather curious look on its face, stared at him for several tense moments. Mbembe stood frozen, thinking of nothing else but being trampled. Eventually the elephant trumpeted loudly, turned, and walked away. Mbembe never forgot that elephant or the events of that day. Twenty years later, Mbembe was walking through the Chicago Zoo with his teenaged son. As they approached the elephant enclosure, one of the creatures turned and walked over to near where Mbembe and his son Tapu were standing. The large bull elephant stared at Mbembe, lifted its front foot off the ground, then put it down. The elephant did that several times then trumpeted loudly, all the while staring at the man. Remembering the encounter in 1986, Mbembe couldn't help wondering if this was the same elephant. Mbembe summoned up his courage, climbed over the railing and made his way into the enclosure. He walked right up to the elephant and stared back in wonder. The elephant trumpeted again, wrapped its trunk around one of Mbembe' s legs and slammed him against the railing, killing him instantly. It probably wasn't the same elephant. ----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it".

...and you have your very own club. ----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it".

I'm just wondering where Tom Aiello is with his big ole censor stamp? So how bout it Tom? Is it threads about other posters ...or just ones that challenge the uber right? ----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it".

An honest response. I appreciate your candor. ----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it".

To believe in something to the extent of thinking that the entire world around her is being organised and manipulated just for her benefit. That goes waaay beyond normal religious belief, and if it was attributed to anything other than god then I am sure that you and many others would be questioning her mental state. Central to the paranoid delusional is that their beliefs elevate their perceived status. People are plotting against them, thus they are special or important. In short, it works for them. Their delusions, no matter how bizzare, work for them in a sustintive way. Not so different with the devoutly religious, I think. From a cultural anthropological view, we continue to give a pass when these very similar thought processes concern religion. At one time, these commonly held delusions 'explained' the frighteningly unexplainable, elevated status and brought comfort in a world most strange. In short, it significantly contributed to their survival. Cultural mores and folkways tend to hang around for many, many generations (centuries!) after they have outlived their uses. To use one of my favorites, the folkway (become more) of prostitutes painting their faces to attract business was enculturated to women in general who, having few viable prospects of supporting themselves, dedicated their lives to being 'attractive' to a man (any man, really) who would be put a roof over their heads and food on the table. Women now have quite viable options (and exercise them!), yet many continue to dedicate significant portions of their life to attempting to maintain their attraction to men as if their survival still depended on it. This is true even when it becomes, to a significant degree, a counter-survival choice with the amount of time, energy and money dedicated to such activities becomes a financial, social and personal drain on resources. Yeah, I know, I know, I'm just a weird, fucked up woman who doesn't understand much about life and what got us where we are.

Desperate? Not really, it's actually rather easy. BTW, there's a difference between having a belief system and being deluded to the point that it's incredible they can actually function in society. You're absolutely right - all those non-functionals like Pope John Paul, Mother Teresa, Jimmy Carter, etc etc etc.... Actually, it's doubtful Mother Teresa would have functioned well outside of the institutional environment she placed herself in. Other than that, your point is reasonable. ----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it".

I agree that there is really no good reason not to, but the choice should still be the individuals, and the default answer should be no. What would your opinion be if the default answer was 'we will ask the next of kin on all deaths', not just the ones who have expressed a desire to donate organs? ----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it".

Hopefully the 'serious' people will go back to whatever and the light hearted laughter and fun will return. ----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it".

Is that because of the tolerance religions generally show each other, or is it because we are all law abiding citizens as members of a Capitalist, Democratic Society? It is false to say that religion isn't violent. Even Christianity. Just ask Ireland. My question is that if you removed the constriction of rules that 'society' places on us (and we dutifully abide by), would we all still be the saints we profess that we are? After all, I have actually seen a few abortion clinics blown up, and one or two abortion doctors got fragged on Channel 5.. But I haven't ever seen an atheist commit a crime or hurt someone based on their religious belief. (edit: except for that Jehovah's Witness last weekend, but that was totally different! he was asking for it... Besides. If they can't find a body then it didn't really happen... ) Just because we don't go around shooting Jews or Mormons in your neck of the woods, doesn't mean it wouldn't happen under the right circumstances. Remember after 9/11 we had rednecks killing people from India because they thought if you wore a turban you were a terrorist. I'm flying in Winchester cathedral It's hard enough to drink the wine The air inside just hangs in delusion But given time I'll be fine Open up the gates of the church and let me out of here Too many people have lied in the name of Christ For anyone to heed the call Too many people have died in the name of Christ That I can't believe it all --CS&N ----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it".

I've got student loans. And $35k of overhead every month. All those things. My wife and I didn't buy a house because we couldn't afford it. Both of us were practicing attorneys sharing a one-bedroom apartment in the summer of 2003. We bought a house in June, 2005. A nice house. Because after the 2004 taxes hit us, we realized that we couldn't afford NOT to buy a house. Jen - I'm sure that Lindsey or DWAJG could put our net worths up against yours any day to see who comes out on top. But, we also know that in 10 or 20 years we'll be doing better. Plenty of us go into medicine or law to help the poor and the oppressed and the sick. I'd personally LOVE to provide low-cost legal aid. But when we've got bills of our own to pay, it makes it difficult to do that. Lindsey and DFWAJG and I don't deserve anything. We don't deserve the expensive cars and houses. We don't deserve a flashy lifestyle. We don't deserve any of that. But we also do not deserve to be treated scorn or derision because of our choices. We do NOT deserve to be labeled as cold or heartless or anything of that nature because we have bills to pay. We do not deserve any of that unless we have given good reason for people to believe we are misanthropes. We do not deserve kudos. We do not deserve derision. We are just trying to make a living. Maybe someday I'll have the time and money to get a private pilot's license. But that won't be any time soon. Fine by me ...as long as you don't come here whining about financial hardships with a new Harley parked in the garage of your new, remodled house, while soaking in your jacuzzi.

Try again - the more conservative posters are the ones that are against the FORCED contribution of body parts. Your blanket statement about conservatives is, as usual, about 180 degrees out of true. Unless, of course, you consider warpedskydiver, myself, juanesky (and probably others) to be liberals. Show me one example where anyone has been 'FORCED' to contribute body parts. Qute typically, you have picked a small segment of the conversation, misrepresented it and taken a stand. Your argument might fly with the 'patriots' (i.e. the cheap seats ) but it doesn't get off the ground here. As you quite typically take a small part of the argument and twist it to try to show how unfeeling and uncaring conservatives are. Speaking of that, did you ever go look at that site showing conservatives giving MUCH more to charity than the liberals? Yes, I mis-spoke... they are not FORCED to contribute - but the organs are taken (under the OP's post) if permission is not explicitly denied. Did you read this part (any part?): Guess what? That's what they do now. Instead of only contacting the NOK with those who have indicated they wish to donate organs, they will do it with everyone ...just like Florida has been doing for many years. Yes, conservatives give more money (probably right up to the limit of the tax write-off) and it is much appreciated. They have the added benefit of discussing their generosity in giving to the comman man at parties. What they do not do is sacrafice or give time and effort. Go to any free clinic, public agency or child welfare organization. Go to any large municipal ER on the graveyard shift. You can throw a dead cat all night long ...and you won't hit a neo-con. ----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it".

Well, you get the unflinching support of the 'patriots'. ----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it".

Try again - the more conservative posters are the ones that are against the FORCED contribution of body parts. Your blanket statement about conservatives is, as usual, about 180 degrees out of true. Unless, of course, you consider warpedskydiver, myself, juanesky (and probably others) to be liberals. Show me one example where anyone has been 'FORCED' to contribute body parts. Qute typically, you have picked a small segment of the conversation, misrepresented it and taken a stand. Your argument might fly with the 'patriots' (i.e. the cheap seats ) but it doesn't get off the ground here. ----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it".

Cool, not everybody has a Dad willing to give such a killer deal on a house. My comments were not concerning your hard work, nor your compassion ...just the whining about financial hardship when you have more expensive toys and live better than the vast majority of Americans! My 'venom' would have directed toward anyone who right out of a basic internship, felt they were sufficiently competent to run an ER. My views (and the opinion of every doc I've asked since our discussion) have not changed on this. At any rate, glad life is good for you. Very few people right out of school are doing nearly as well. ----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it".

Have you noticed that the 'not my body parts' folks tend to be the same ones who have a long history of of strenuous objection to just about any sort of help or compassion to those in need (e.g child health care, disaster victims) and are the same folks who have been ardent neo-cons? You have all the data you need to define where their narrow, self-serving sense of values lie. ----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it".

Way to go, Kelly!!!

Hey... let's put jenfly in charge of deciding what is important or valid or relevant. She really seems to have an uncanny knack for putting herself in other's shoes and empathizing with their situation. And so fair-minded. Let's make it official. "I'm jenfly. I'm the decider." We all decide for ourselves what is important, valid and/or relevant. Pretty much like you (apparently ) consider your response relevant to the issue being discussed. When you have recently finished medical training, have money to spend on skydiving, buy a new harley, new house, remodel and furnish the house, build a jacuzzi ...you've pretty much lost the right to complain about financial hardships. Now if you want to address that issue, please respond ...or you can just continue to, um, be you.

I think you may have been pissed when you wrote that, but it's REALLY funny. But there's no WAY to describe the situation in any way that's believable to a person who hasn't been there. They'll nod their heads, blah, blah, blah, or they'll pick out every minute mistake you make to point out to the world how you (and every other physician) sucks and is only in it for the money...LOLOL!!!!! Most of 'em get a good night's sleep darn near every night. Can you imagine THAT?! I can't. Once a week if I'm lucky. But you and I both suck. It's just how it is. We worked our asses off to become physicians, continue to work our asses of after becoming physicians in order to improve and get better and better at what we do. But if we were worth a damn we'd not have to do those things. We'd know all we need to know and be capable of performing every procedure without flaw. And despite the long hours, the unimaginable stress at times, and the sacrifice that goes along with the territory, we'd do it without compensation. We suck. We all do. Heh. linz Didn't you recently finish your internship ...and buy a new Harley and a magnificent new home, remodel and refurnished it ...and how bout that jacuzzi you posted about? If I'm wrong, I apologize. If not ...well, I really don't believe your comments about suffering and lack of compensation carry much weight. I'm not saying you don't work hard, nor am I saying you don't deserve all of these things and more ...just stop with the violin. ----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it".

And then again, the invasive procedure should be the request, not the other way around. It is already in place in the US, you just have to tell the people at the DMV to plave "donor" on your license. It's quite easy, really! Actually, the donor indication on your DL means nothing. It's really a promote public awareness kind of thing. You can have "ORGAN DONOR" tattooed on your chest but it won't happen without next of kin permission. If you really want to be an organ donor, make sure your next of kin are clearly aware of your wishes ...better yet, sign a statement to that effect, have them witness it and have it notorized. It's not binding, but it may help them with their decision. ----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it".

Well, for goodness sake, why did you feel the need to do it???? ----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it".

They are societal rituals for the living. ----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it".

How many attacks on us by those in the Muslim community haven't invoked the name of Allah in the process? You can't separate their reiligion and their politicss. We've spanked other despots into submission using a heavy hand. ....ding ding ding ding...we have a winner. As I said, the extremists have already made it about religion, regardless of how carefully we tread around the issue. Do I want us to carry a religious banner as we fight in this campaign, no. Do I want us to exploit the tactic the other side is using to our advantage, yes. Is it easy and 100% effective, no. Initial justification aside, on a nations scale, it's just fucking embarassing having the US flounder around day after day, racking up the death toll of US troops ...and accomplishing nothing. If faced with the dicotomy between a few more decades of the fucknest we now have in Iraq, and all out, fuck the politics, war ...I would choose the latter. ----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it".

Yep, no big deal ...except those weapons are now being used against US troops AND an additional 2 Billion dollars has been requested to replace the weapons and replace/retrain the ones now fighting against us. I don't know much about war, but are we really supposed to train and equip the enemy? Strange rules. I suppose the money really isn't an issue cause Gawain informed me that the Iraqi cluster fuck is being funded with money that was just laying around unused anyway ...emergency appropriations, I believe he called it. ----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it".

I wonder if realize that we can see your reflection in the glass ...naked! ----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it".

It's still someones place of rest. You shouldn't walk over graves you should walk between them. Please don't should on me! -Louise May ----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it".