skyjumpenfool

With so many calling for change, I'd like to offer this question as "devil’s advocate".... So, we all start doing these things to make positive change in the system. We create a “safety first” minded community of instructors/DZO's/jumpers with everyone watching out for one another. There'll still be the one in a million chance of one individual getting away with a one-time complete act of stupidity! (As we may have seen in this incident) My point is… the best we can hope for is to get a little better at this. We'll never be able to 100% eliminate the possibility of error. This sport comes with an inherent risk factor. That risk factor includes pilot/instructor error. People entering this or any high risk endeavor need to know and understand this. Period!! This is a very sad incident with far reaching ramifications for us and aviation as a whole. My question is this... How can we move forward to get us closer to that 100% mark? IMHO, that's where this discussion should be centered. Putting SE out of business does nothing to help! It only makes room for a less qualified company to move in. Which in turn, creates another “Deep Pocket” target?? The ambulance chasers win again! Birdshit & Fools Productions "Son, only two things fall from the sky."

Another aspect of this.... There's a lot of tandem instructors, videographers, etc. making a living, or at very least, supporting their skydiving habit by throwing students out of the airplane. The number of skydivers financially capable of making 4-500 jumps a year would decrease. Overall experience level in the sport would suffer. But then again, as we see in nature, the strong will survive well into the future! The big question is, what’ll they find when they get there? Birdshit & Fools Productions "Son, only two things fall from the sky."

Excellent Response!! Honest and well spoken. See how easy that was?? Not once did he slam anyone or point fingers or name call. I'm impressed! Thank you. More of the same now.... please! Birdshit & Fools Productions "Son, only two things fall from the sky."

Just for the Coach Rating?? Why not something similar for ALL Instructor ratings?? Warning... Be carefull what you wish for! Birdshit & Fools Productions "Son, only two things fall from the sky."

__________________________________ +1 ...especially on all the finger pointing, blaming, name calling, crap on this and other related threads. My question is, How can we as a group help SE?? And then, how can we assure this never happens again? Birdshit & Fools Productions "Son, only two things fall from the sky."

Some great suggestions here... http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3735062;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread I use Kevlar reinforced motorcycle gloves because they are designed to allow you complete control of your fingers. Very good, but a little too light for MN winter jumping. Birdshit & Fools Productions "Son, only two things fall from the sky."

That depends.... what time is it? Birdshit & Fools Productions "Son, only two things fall from the sky."

Oh yah, I've been doing that for almost 20 years.... have you seen my wife??? The problem is, now I can't tell her anything without getting beat up. Apparently, shoveling snow is a great workout. Well, here's a picture.... Birdshit & Fools Productions "Son, only two things fall from the sky."

You are correct sir! It's found in section 6.6 under General Recommendations. However, IMHO, it's meant for everyone! Although I always stress this to students, (to keep “the Safety Nazi” from demanding I turn in my ratings again) I tend to agree with you that this is one recommendation we tend to ignore from time to time. I'm guilty of it myself even though it almost cost me my life once. Damn, I'm such a hypocrite!! Here's some light reading... http://www.uspa.org/SIM/Read/Section6/tabid/169/Default.aspx#981 Happy Holidays! Birdshit & Fools Productions "Son, only two things fall from the sky."

Normal CRW wing load would be somewhere around 1.3 to 1.4 giver or take. An experienced Dog might lighten it up a bit to accommodate a Pup. FreeFlyer2100... Don't get me wrong, down planes are a blast. It sounds like you've found a great mentor and have the right equipment. Just be aware that when shit hits the proverbial fan, (and it will eventually) altitude is the only thing that can save your young behind. Don't be afraid to ask the CRW Dogs to do these maneuvers at higher altitudes. You can do down planes at 10,000 feet, break off and do it again. As for docking low; it can be done safely! But again, when the shit flies, altitude is your best friend. ScoobieDoo... There’s lots of good CReW Dogs around. Try the Wisconsin CReW Boogie at East Troy. PM Sabre1700 or Madison for details on the next training camp Birdshit & Fools Productions "Son, only two things fall from the sky."

See helmet not only save lives but can look cool! Carbon fiber? CHECK! Soft? CHECK! Yellow and pours he be? CHECK! $1200.00???? ..... CHECK! Fixed it for you.... Birdshit & Fools Productions "Son, only two things fall from the sky."

Re: "Approaches and docking should stop no lower than 2,500 feet AGL." I'm guily of bending this rule recently myself. If I may ask what did you almost learn the hard way? ________________________ I was given the opportunity to ride a streamer in from 500ft.... Long story short, we were landing a two stack and shit happened (as it always does). I am very lucky to be writing this post. So, no lectures from me, just a stern warning! I'm one of the many reasons the BSR's cover this. CRW is cool as hell. Just do it high enough to have time to recover from the shit storm... To the original OP... did you have retractable PC's? What canopy's? and again, Congratulations Dude!! Birdshit & Fools Productions "Son, only two things fall from the sky."

re: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RgPd29MlHpg OK. Being a former National Gymnastic Champion, I can speak to this.... It's very apparent that this guy has extensive gymnastics background. Not because he can do a Kp, Headspring, Front Salto, or land on concreate from high places, but because he uses techniques taugh by Gymnasts. I disagree with the turning of the head to protect it. First of all, because if you turn the head to the side, you're catching the fall on one shoulder. It is more efficient to catch the fall on both shoulders. Secondly, head position dictates direction. If you turn the head, you turn the body and subsequentely change the direction of flow. Not what you want to do unless it's neccesary. Another thing I see wrong here, and this I learned from skydiving and experience hitting the ground hard, he does not keep his feet and knees together. If you keep your feet and knees together, you decrease the chance of injury because your more likely to even out the shock between both legs. These are great techniques used by extreame athletes to survive hard falls. I would emphasise that these techniques require great physical condition, excellent flexibility and range of motion, along with years of experience to perfect. When in peak form, years before most readers of this forum were born, I was capable of performing these techniques. In fact, I once dove head first from 25 feet (measured) into sand. I didn't just do that, it took 13 years of competitive gymnastics, trampoline, and tumbling experience to gain the skill and ability. For 99% of the skydivers out there, I'd say just learn your PLF's as taught in your first jump course. They work when done correctly but need to be practiced to the point of being automatic.... When in trouble, your brain should automatically switch to PLF mode. Birdshit & Fools Productions "Son, only two things fall from the sky."

I just recently earned my Coach rating and did some coach jumps this last season. I received great feedback from several seasoned Instructors when I asked questions. And, I asked a lot of questions!! I have many, many years in the sport and well over 200 jumps. My plan is to eventually get my AFF-I rating. I'm in no hurry and welcome any change in the system that would increase my proficiency as an instructor. I consider myself a lifelong student of the sport and I challenge the BOD to make my road to the I rating challenging. I’m willing to jump thru the hoops if they make sense and will increase my knowledge, understanding, and skill. I see nothing in the above recommended changes that would discourage me from moving forward in my road to AFF-I. In fact, I think these changes would further challenge my skill and knowledge. My two cents…… Bring It On Bitches!!! Birdshit & Fools Productions "Son, only two things fall from the sky."

Could you post a link to those vidoes? Birdshit & Fools Productions "Son, only two things fall from the sky."

+ 1 +1 more... I never did much smoking (of any kind) but if it wasn't for my profession, I might be more likely to try certain things. Part of my contract is a moral clause which includes drugs, etc. Maybe it's a good thing?? I forget? Birdshit & Fools Productions "Son, only two things fall from the sky."

Congratulations. But, have you read the SIM? 7. Breakoff and landing procedures: a. Approaches and docking should stop no lower than 2,500 feet AGL. b. Formation pilots should avoid all obstacles, including suspected areas of thermal activity, such as paved surfaces, plowed fields, buildings, etc. c. The landing of canopy formations should be attempted by only those with a high level of CRW proficiency. d. Breakoff for landing should take place no lower than 2,500 feet AGL, because of the danger of entanglement at breakoff time. e. Jumpers should not attempt to land formations in high or gusty winds, high density altitudes, or high field elevations. f. CRW groups landing off the airport should try to land together. It is very dangerous to do CReW too low. I'm not the self appointed Safety Nazi, but I did learn this the hard way. Hopefully, you can learn from our (old farts) mistakes. It almost cost me my life. Don't make the same mistake I did almost 30 years ago... With all that being said, CREW Skies Dude!!! Birdshit & Fools Productions "Son, only two things fall from the sky."

Well Pops, in this case, "you can't teach the new dogs old tricks". Birdshit & Fools Productions "Son, only two things fall from the sky."

It is even more fun to knock them into a fountain. Nothing says happy holidays like watching all that water go flying I'd have to disagree here. I feel that the best part would be watching the video I just shot of Bart Wannabe Simpson soaking wet spitting out gold fish. To me, that says merrry fricken x-mass better than anything. Here's a pic that just reaks of "Happy Holidays". I can't believe Hallmak missed this one....... Birdshit & Fools Productions "Son, only two things fall from the sky."

A Ninja!! Damn, you are HOT girl. Don't listen to those knuckle heads above, you don't have to do anything to it. Just learn to ride the hell out of it. To many worry about what they look like on it and never do learn to enjoy it. I've got close to 70K miles on my little Ninja and I love it. It's the second most fun you can have with your cloths on. Enjoy!! Blue skies and twisted highways....... Birdshit & Fools Productions "Son, only two things fall from the sky."

.... and, after you land in his field or he stops to give you a ride back to the DZ, a six pack of beer and a thank you card will make a friend for life!!! Birdshit & Fools Productions "Son, only two things fall from the sky."

Hey, a fellow cliff diver... but why would you fake it?? Granted, being well into my fifties is no time to try this stunt, but it's like any other cliff, you work your way up. 10ft, 30ft, 100ft, 150... …until you die. That's how these world records are made. If you're really a cliff diver, you have to give this guy his due respect!!! Just hitting those boxes from that height is risky. Birdshit & Fools Productions "Son, only two things fall from the sky."

That's about the only fun an ole guy like me has at 'the mall'. Come on Airtwardo, fess up! You go there for the girl watching just like the rest of us old farts.... Birdshit & Fools Productions "Son, only two things fall from the sky."