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Sounds like a friggin 50 cent medium sized Chinese bottle rocket is a WMD. Most kids are terrorists I guess, their freedom (at least for the white kids) is only due to prosecutorial discretion. If I hang a cherry bomb from my RC plane and get caught, will the FBI call a press conference and describe it as a homemade cruise missile? Maybe it would be more likely if I let an Arab kid get caught with it. When I was a kid I played around with all sorts of flammables and small quantities of gunpowder siphoned off from a friend's dad's vast ammo reloading supplies. No harm was done and we all learned a lot of science from our "experiments." We all thought gunpowder would explode violently if you just lit it. It does not. It just burns like a sparkler. It must be contained to really exert explosive force. Kids can't do DANGER anymore. I can see the logical and caring arguments for it, but you really lose something trying to make childhood 100% safe. I also made parachutes from bedsheets and made running jumps off our garage roof. I salvaged a huge neon sign tranformer from a demolished market and put on backyard "lightning shows" at night. We placed big nails and spikes on the RR tracks and fashioned knives out of the flattened metal. Nowdays child Protective Services would be called, my parents arrested and I might be put in a foster home. Glad I grew up then rather than now, even though I missed out on the great computer gaming stuff. The hands on stuff was just better. I sometimes wonder if Cooper acually jumped waaaaay after the bump and everyone is looking in the wrong place. The money find says NO, but I still wonder. Been making a few HAHO jumps lately. They are really fun, great views, fairly quiet too (I leave my brakes set until 3000 ft and riser steer). As I drift down from 14,000 feet I wonder wonder what it was like for Cooper assuming he got his chute out. Even in great weather, on the sunset loads with diminshed ground light, it is hard to understand unfamiliar stuff seen below. Is that a road or a water canal (there are canals near our DZ). Is that a field or a pond? Cooper probably had no idea what he was descending into on that stormy Winter night. Very scary indeed. Maybe less so if you were Braden and were comparing it to SOG jumps. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Snow, As much as I love the old radial engined beasts like the 123, I think we need one of these babies, a modified Herc with surplus ASROC anti sub rocket motors used for vectored thrust. The Slovenians can get us all the solid fueled rocket motors we might need, right? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gXfK4ypirI&feature=related Of course there are a few bugs to iron out, but we can surely find some retired Lockheed guys to "get the job done." I'd bet they are still pissed that the plug was pulled on this project. We can get them stoked up again. Surplus Hercs are available, the A models are cheap, but they have a weak wing box structure. The last part of the video is why I like skydiving: if your plane has a bad landing it really doesnt affect you directly. I know Ive said it a zillion times, but I think about it every day. The Cooper rig is out there somewhere near where he landed, no matter what happened to him. No reason to take it out and every reason to leave it behind, concealed just enough to avoid immediate detection in visual searches. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

The idea that F 106s couldn't go as slow as the 727 with partial flaps and even gear down isn't supported by the 106 specs. It could maintain straight level flight at those speeds. Handling wouldn't be crisp though. The F 106 had a turobojet (not turbofan) engine and it was designed for high altitude high speed flight. It was a real fuel hog at low altitudes in dense air. I watched a formation of Fresno CA based ANG F 106s do a slow level air show photo pass a year before they were retired and replaced by F 16s. The sixes were gorgeous in flight. Pilots loved them and thought they were taken out of service too soon. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

I'd bet that the data link auto intercept was not used, for reasons unknown. It was a complicated system and trouble prone. If it had been used, the F 106s would have easily found the 727. As for SAGE, it was a vital air defense radar system and had redundant components to increase reliability. I'd bet it was working and tracked the flight. It wasn't necessarily more accurate than good ATC radar, it just covered a larger area by taking data from geographically diverse radar stations and integrated/processed the data for presentation as if the networked radars were a single one. All this is speculation. I don't know if records were kept, but SAGE did use mag tape units as part of the computer system. Data was recorded. Wasn't there a C 130 Herc pilot who actually intercepted the 727 at some point and kept it in sight? The engineers I worked with would have been humiliated. A ponderous cargo prop plane did an intercept where the Mach 2 data link capable F 106s wandered around in an unsuccessfu chase. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Actually Bruce, the F 106s onboard radar couldnt interrogate the 727's transponder, but the F 106 MA 1 fire control system had a data link to the immensely sophisticated USAF SAGE networked ground based radar system. This link allowed SAGE to control the interceptor's autopilot and direct it to a target painted by the SAGE radar! A transponder equipped 727 isnt exactly a stealth aircraft. Now that is interesting if true. Do you know this is true and not just conjecture? Can Bruce find someone to confirm? And why no records (with timestamps), would there be records, and will Snow drop Braden and Mojavi-Joe and turn his genius skills to this? Probably "no" across the board. But Lee's Dad WAS COOPER! He wouldnt be here otherwise! Gte busy Snow **************************** the MA 1 system was made by Hughes Aircraft Georger. I worked there for eight years. The F 106 could be flown by the SAGE system through the radio data link and vectored to an intercept calculated by a massive IBM computer that occupied an entire building. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Honestly Jo, I dont know enough about the area to know if a single or even multiple tower anti collision lights would give me an unambiguous position fix. I'd be far more worried about jumping over a safe landing area than knowing my exact geographic location. I know you have a beef with Jerry, but he is an experienced parachutist and he knows the territory. The question is better put to him. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Actually Bruce, the F 106s onboard radar couldnt interrogate the 727's transponder, but the F 106 MA 1 fire control system had a data link to the immensely sophisticated USAF SAGE networked ground based radar system. This link allowed SAGE to control the interceptor's autopilot and direct it to a target painted by the SAGE radar! A transponder equipped 727 isnt exactly a stealth aircraft. I have been doing HAHO jumps the last few weekends. I wonder what would happen if I threw out a bunch of chaff at 14,000 ft? I think ATC radar has velocity gates which reject realy slow moving targets, but I am not certain. Maybe it would generate some UFO reports if I did it on a sunset jump. That stuff is pretty reflective. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

"SLAP" Thanks Lee, we needed that. Guilty as charged. We'll start back on Cooper tomorrow. Ready Snow? Georger? Farflung? Let's talk flight paths and what lights were actually seen by the cockpit crew though the overcast. And why dont we have a precise radar track from the USAF SAGE system that was receiving networked radar data at McChord AFB site? And how could two F 106 air defense interceptors which were presumably connected to the SAGE system data links fail to find a nearby transponder equipped 727 which was hardly trying to evade detection? 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Forget the locks Snow. The Navy arms their guard dolphins with bang sticks. I am sure you could get those high IQ dogs of yours similarly equipped. Once they are armed it kinda redefines the relationship. You'll have to either include an RC remote shutoff or start buying more prime rib and putting some extra seats at the table. I can't buy OTC psudafed without a hassle because of the speed freaks wanting it for home cooking. Are hair care products next? 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Zazi might really have been trying (incompetently) to make a bomb, but would the FBI please stop portraying minnows as great white sharks? It just makes the agency look ineffective and desperate. Where are agency's marketing/PR people? Surely they could have spun this bit player terrorist story more effectively. The FBI failed to prevent 9-11, can't find Osama Bin Laden and still have no idea who Dan Cooper was. They should just hunker down, keep investigating and not pump up minor cases. Meanwhile, Ckret grinds it out, reading this forum for amusement and catching the endless stream of criminals dumb enough to do a bank job in "da 206." 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Lillian Hillman and HUAC. McCarthyism. The Commie menace survived. Dumb liberals. Where is good old Joe when we really need him and his boys Dick Nixon and Roy Cohn... I think these occasional FBI "made to fit" terror orgs are a hoot. They cant find Bin Laden or any really serious players, so they market domestic wannabes as the real deal. Did Zazi have any old radium dial watches or clocks? If he did he'd be nuke terror suspect and the FBI would have saved us from the big one. Even a disassembled smoke detector might be enough. If that doesnt get Sluggo back nothing will. I guess it gets boring for those FBI agents who pose as 11 year old girls on chatrooms trying to snag a solicitation. At least Ckret gets to chase real bank robbers. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Thanks Lou, appreciate your help with all these tech questions. Hope you don't mind a few more as the project progresses. Mark 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Alien intelligent life is highly probable but I think the only way it will touch Earth is by radio waves. The enormous distances, the difficulty of providing life support for interstellar travel and Einsteins goddamned speed limit make personal visits highly unlikely. There are some good articles debunking the alien explanations for the Nazca lines. Nobody wants alien contact more than I do, but the most likely form is microwave radio communication with perhaps thousands of years between each call and reply. Bruce is a quandry. He understands science but believes in things that fly in the face of science. He isn't dogmatic. He can laugh at and also embrace what I see as gullibility and he sees as openness. You gotta like the guy even if you disagree with some of his far out beliefs. I was happier when I truly believed in Santa Claus. Maybe Bruce is onto something. The value of his Cooper sleuthing is not diminished by his willingness to accept paranormal stuff as a current reality. While we blog in the cave, endlessly recycling speculative ideas, he goes above ground and actually talks to people with relevant knowledge. Bruce doesn't think outside of the box. He doesn't even see the box. He sees an unlimited vista where I see a maze of hard stops such as the speed of light, Maxwells equations, Raleigh limits etc. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Don't take a twenty Bruce. Ray Bradbury knew about the horrible consequences of tranporting material across time. Haven't you seen the movie (based on a Bradbury Story) Sound of Thunder??? Can you imagine the chaos if you took one of the twenties that was later found at Tena Bar? Unless you can resist the temptation, please stick to remote viewing OK? 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Keep posting Farflung. The prior posts are a swamp. You are on dry land. You came over the bridge. It's unreasonable to ask you to go back and slog through that mess as a condition precedent to playing here. I do wish Jerry would just take a map, draw his flightline on it and post it. If he doesn't have a scanner he can mail it to me and I will do it. It seems like a reasonable request. Where is Sluggo? Safe? Guru? Nitro? Come on guys, we have cleaned up the neighborhood. Stop by and say hello. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

The Jo bash moratorium has really improved things. I'll sign up for another term in advance. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Snow has DEFINITELY done the bar scene in Adak. Finally we learn how he got his name. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

I recall some ill fated RW jump over that alleged continent. I think they lost altitude awareness and most of the formation went in. Wasn't there also an Air New Zealand sightseing DC 10 flight down ther that also lost altitude awareness or position awareness or whatever and flew into the ice killing all aboard? I'd rather visit more hospitable real continents: the kinds with sand beaches, forests, cities, DZs, you know... Snow will have to post a full report on his Antarctic adventures... and remember Snow, a "mile high contact" doesnt count as a continent either in bucket lists or as a legit QSO for WAC. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Bet you do have one. Maybe not 10,000 pages, but a few. Your inventive posts about how to take down airliners without bringing anything illegal aboard must be autologged somewhere. Your planned multi continent bucket list quest will give you a few more pages as you begin execution. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Great find Snow. I wonder if he rode on the truck. Probably not. Could the alleged 4 AM incident have been a separate one from the 7:30 one? Oh well. Is Antarctica a continent? If so, what are your plans? Do the Slovenians have an Ice Station Zebra down there? I think the Argentines have a few. Ricky Nelson's "Travelling Man" comes to mind... 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Might be true Snow. My Dad had a friend who was a Secret Service Agent. He told my Dad that when Soviet Premier Nikita Krushchev visited San Francisco in 1959, he stayed up late drinking vodka, LOTS of vodka, and wanted to take a 4 AM walk outside the hotel. A garbage truck was passing slowly and the scavenger workers recognized Krushchev. "Nikita, ride with us" one shouted. Before anyone could react Krushchev jumped onto the back of the truck with the guys who hailed him and the truck sped off. Krushchev hung on for a block before the various guards could catch up. He was laughing hilariously when he stepped down. My Dad's friend did not personally witness the event but swore it happened. He mostly worked counterfeiting cases but had buddies in other areas who recounted the story to him. I am sure one part is true, the vodka part. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Good point Orange about the FBI doing more than the law requires as far as posting FOIA stuff. When all is said and done the FBI isnt either as bad or as good as some people think. The FBI, like every governmental LE orgazization, has their ups and downs, sharp and dumb agents and both shameful and proud moments. They botched the NORJACK investigation, but they have done some brilliant sleuthing on other cases. The FBI's "botching" of NORJACK was likely harmless error. I think Cooper threw law enforcement a real curve ball and that even the best investigation immediately after the crime might not have identified him. Theories about coverups and conspiracies are tempting, but they are the refuge of frustrated tired investigators. When all else fails, call it a conspiracy or coverup. Those explanations are almost always wrong. Bruce is an interesting guy. He embraces what I call fringe and paranormal beliefs, stuff that I think has no scientific or even rational merit, but he, unlike his fellow new age travellers, keeps an open mind and a wonderful sense of humor. If aliens were mutilating the Fazios cattle, and seeking DNA to help breed emotionality into their flat "Grey" lives, then it opens all sorts of possibilities. Pranks are an early manifestation of humor. Maybe as their directed evolution project progressed, they conceived a prank to put some Cooper loot at Tena Bar. It isnt very funny, but hey, maybe they bred in cow humor not knowing that cows and humans laugh at different things. How did they get the loot? Show me the proof that Cooper was human. Or as Jo might phrase it, show me proof that Cooper was not an alien. Our enduring difficulty in identifying him might be explained easily by Bruce. What do you say Bruce? 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Any tips on flow setting for the first stage regulator for a HAHO jump from 20,000 feet? It has rotary knob detent settings ranging between 1 and 15 L, which I assume mean liters per minute? The mask (aircrew type) has a demand regulator. Got my Kevlar O2 aviation tank hydro tested ($35 at the local fire extingusher service company) and will be getting it filled next week. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

First jump Sept 28, 1968, California Parachute Club, Livermore CA. S/L out of the "RAT", Perry Stevens' ratty old Aeronca Sedan. I had been longing to jump ever since I saw my first skydivers at the Calistoga CA DZ when I was 12 years old. They encouraged me, but told me I couldn't jump until I was 18. I literally counted the days for another six years. Finally, at age 18, I was about to realize my dream. Winds were high, they kept putting off the student jumps until nearly sundown. When we were on jump run, the cars on the streets below all had their headlights on. I think my first jump was actually a night jump. I was so stoked that all I could think about was getting cleared for unsupervised freefall. I mastered flat spins before I mastered stable freefall, but I got there eventually. AFF was not available. Your first freefall was solo back in the day. Jumped last weekend at the Byron CA DZ Boogie. Never been injured. 2 cutaways, one in the early 70s from surplus gear (C9 main, Capewells and a 26 foot Navy conical reserve) and one in 2005 at WFFC with a PD 193R. I'll never be invited to join any big ways, but I bet I have as much fun as anyone in the sport. For me, jumping is less scary but just as thrilling as it was 41 years ago. What an astounding bargain to be able to go to 13,500 feet for $17 at Byron on non boogie days, even less at Lodi if you buy bulk and 18,000 feet at Monterey for $28. Talk about cheap thrills, nobody gets it better than skydivers. I'll be 60 in a few weeks. When I made my first jump at 18, 60 was ANCIENT. There are few extreme sports that welcome old timers as graciously as skydiving does. I am not in denial about aging. I don't drive a fast car, my girlfriend is my own age and I am not planning on getting any tatoos or body piercings. I just love to jump, it's that simple. I love it today just as much as I did when I made my first one on Sept 28, 1968. Blue skies, Mark 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

I am surprised the Mafia didn't dump all their bodies in the Columbia. Those ship propellers snag everything and make things disappear permanently. Tom knew what he was talking about. Given a choice between soldier, realtor, engineer or scientist, the best bet is always on the scientist. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.