freethefly

Some good responses to my original post. It appears that those who replied are more in favor of education over more legislation. I very seldom have a beer anymore as my past behavoir when drinking is a good indicator that alcohol is not for me. For the record, I am not in favor of strick policy, if the offense did not harm anyone. Drink, drive and kill or harm someone is another matter and one that needs more attention too. It is very true that kids can obtain alcohol fairly easy. But i would not go for lowering the legal age limit. Nor am I for raising it. Raising the limit would only create a new class of criminals such as the "marijuana tax stamp act" did. Regardless of the law most people would persue something if they like it enough. Outlaw skydiving and you would create a whole new class of outlaws. Hell, I would risk prison for one more jump. But I wonder why society as a whole is willing to turn their head when it comes to drinking in general? Is it because of an onslaught of advertising that only shows the "beautiful people" having the kind of "good times" that can only be achieved through alcohol. What if they had a commercial that depict a person who is drunk and belligerant? Or, one that depicts the morning after? Never have I seen any commercial by the alcohol industry that depicts the true nature of alcohol consumption. I have, however, seen commercials that depicts marijuana as the greatest evil of all time solely because the government says it is and to legalize it for medical or recreational purpose would send the wrong message to the children.(I fully expect Drunk Monkey to hop all over that). Of course shoving ritalin down their throats to keep them in line sends the right message. All in all, I fully believe that even greater education would not solve the problem of alcohol abuse. Some people are destine to be alcoholic. I myself is one of those. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

Then they should raise the legal drinking age to 25 as alcohol is the number one cause of car related death amongst 16-24. Sure, the 21 age limit did not keep the 16-20yo from drinking but maybe the thought of a very long prison sentence would keep them inline. As far as responible drinking? Very few drink in that manner once they have 3 or 4 drinks. Some even less. Why should my tax dollars support alcohol use? It is the most widely abused drug in the world and by far the most dangerous. It should be criminalized and added to the DEA's list of drugs with no medical value. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

***We tried as a country to outlaw alcohol. It did not work. That was 70 years ago. With greater police presence it should be no problem. Besides what kind of message is being sent to the children when alcohol is betrayed as "fun". A number of these "children" will die as the result of alcohol being legal. A stiff prison sentencing law would be a deterrent for people not to drink and would send the right message to the children that alcohol kills. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

I already have all these super powers, plus I can fly "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

Considering the devestation that alcohol cause, maybe it is time to raise the drinking age to 25. Also, enact a zero tolerance law and minimum sentencing regarding alcohol and driving. Any level of alcohol should revoke driving privilage and do at least 30 days in jail for a first offense and a second should get a year. A third offence should get life. Better yet alcohol should be taken out of society all together. Alcohol Impaired Driving Statistics Total Fatalities / Fatality Rates 250,000 people have died in alcohol related accidents in the past 10 years. Presently 25,000 people are killed each year in alcohol related accidents. 500 people are killed each week in alcohol related accidents. 71 people are killed each day in alcohol related accidents. One American life is lost every 20 minutes in alcohol related auto crashes. It is estimated that one out of every two Americans will be involved in an alcohol related accident in his or her lifetime. In 1994, New Hampshire had 119 total highway fatalities, 42 were alcohol related (or 35.3% of the total). New Hampshire leads the nation with one of the lowest percentages of alcohol related fatalities. Cause of Death Alcohol related crashes are the leading cause of death for young Americans, between the ages of 16 and 24 years old. For all Americans between 5 and 35 years of age, motor vehicle accidents are the number one cause of death. Over 50% of these accidents are caused by alcohol impaired drivers. Recent Alcohol-Involvement Over 50% of all fatal highway crashes involving two or more cars are alcohol related. Over 65% of all fatal single car crashes are alcohol related. Over 36% percent of all adult pedestrian accidents are alcohol related. 80% of all fatal alcohol related auto crashes occur between 8 pm and 8 am. 36% of all adult pedestrian accidents involve an intoxicated pedestrian. Injury Crashes / Collisions Every year, 708,000 persons are injured in alcohol related crashes; 74, 000 of those people suffer serious injuries. About 2,000 people are hurt each day in alcohol related accidents. Two million alcohol impaired driving collisions occur each year. Arrest / Characteristics of Alcohol Impaired Drivers Of every 200 to 2,000 alcohol impaired drivers on the road, only one is arrested. Therefore, the probability of getting caught is slim. Of those who are caught, very few receive a serious penalty. The average alcohol impaired driver arrested on the highway has a blood alcohol concentration (BAC) of .20%, double the level for presumed intoxication in most states; that is 14 drinks of 86% proof liquor (or 14 beers) in 4 hours for a 180 lb. man. Between 7 pm and 3 am on weekends, 10% of all drivers are legally impaired, in some parts of the country.Most Americans drink alcohol. Over 80% admit to driving after drinking. Relatively few problem drinkers, about 7% of the driving population, account for over 66% of all alcohol related fatal accidents. When drinkers are at the presumed level of intoxication, the risk of causing an accident is six times greater than for non-drinking drivers. Youth Although persons between 16 and 24 years old comprise only 20% of the total licensed population, and 20% of the total vehicle miles traveled in this country by all licensed drivers, they cause 42 percent of all fatal atcohol related crashes. Economic / Societal Cost According to a recent Allstate Insurance Company study, alcohol impaired drivers are estimated to cost American taxpayers $21 - $24 billion dollars per year. National Geographic recently stated that alcohol abuse costs American society $136 billion and 65,000 lives annually. Miscellaneous Admittedly, the United States has one of the safest highway systems in the world, due in part to design characteristics, guard rails, highway markings and signs. We have relatively few fatalities per 100-million miles driven. But the portion of our accidents involving alcohol is among the highest in the world. An accident by an alcohol impaired driver is the most frequently committed violent crime in the United States today. Other alcohol-related statistics show the involvement of alcohol in many non-driving aspects: 40% of all suicide attempts are alcohol-related 54% of all violent crimes are alcohol-related 60% of all emergency room admissions are alcohol-related 80% of all domestic disputes are alcohol-related From statistics complied by the U. S. Dept. of Transportation and the N. H. Department of Safety. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

They knew fully what they were going to be used for and stood back while Saddam deployed them "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

If totaled and you buy it back I suggest putting that engine on a quadrunner "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

May I suggest a smaller canopy next time "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

It was funny and sad all at the same time, although the plot was weak and the character even weaker. His message was the same rhetoric he has been spewing from day one. Reality TV. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

I have actually read quite alot on the 80-88 war as I spent more than 50 days off the coast of Iran and Iraq in 81 (we flew night ops every night. The IO is awsome from the flight deck at night. It shimmers like glass). Considering that Iraq had US backing and their use of mustard gas with US approval (a violation of the Geneva Convention) amongst other agents, Iran was able to stave off an all out onslaught. OK, kicked ass is kinda strong. I'll say they held a bully back. I wonder what the shift might have been if Saddam was able to make his way to Tehran. Kinda makes you shudder to think it. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

***I think he was intimating that the US would be likely to sell F16's to Korea because there was a new enemy we liked less... ie just like we sold WMD to Iraq even though we knew they were bastards simply because we thought Iran were a bigger bunch of bastards. This can be seen in the Arming of Iraq timeline. It is surprising that the US did not do more to equip S. Korea over the last 50 years. Given that the Korean war is not officially over and that we are but in a ceasefire situation one should wonder how it got to the point that it is now. As the US helped to arm other nations it seems that the status qou was in effect for S. Korea. Given S. Koreas dependence on the US it is unlikely they could hold back the North for very long without pulling the US back into a full scale war. Our current situation in Iraq and the all but forgotten Afghanastan would not allow us to be in another theater anytime soon. If N. Korea were to push south they most likely would be counting on this. A shift of force from a desert operation to the jungles of Korea would place major hardship on the the US to be able to adapt as focus of recent has been desert warfare. The cost would be astronomical and could throw the economy into a major downward spiral as the price of crude would likely go through the cieling. Another thing, the N. Koreans most likely will put up a fierce fight and casualties high. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

It is the new "Cold War". Somehow, I do not remember any peace during the last one. The sixties were anything but peaceful and from what I have read the fifties were not any better. The seventies and eighties were overbremming with tension. How convenient we had weapons to keep the peace. Just imagine what a terror filled world it would be if the atom bomb (the baby of the Cold War)was never concieved. The problem is obvious. Nations are much like small children. You have one, I want one too! If my neighbor has a gun and there is reason to fear that neighbor then I too should be able to have a gun that is equal if not greater than his. That is the reason and problem of an arms race. Does the world need another standoff like the one between the US and the former USSR? The answer is obvious. No it does not. Sad, not many are willing to stand up against what is on its way. Those who do stand up are labled unpatriotic. Could tension be relieved if all countries disarmed their nuclear arsenals and those that considered arming back down from such? Most likely it would relieve tension but with the current fervor for war it is not likely to happen at anytime. Like a child and a security blanket, once you have it, it is hard to give it up. The only way to peace is disarment of weapons aimed at other nations unilaterally and shift the focus toward terrorist who have no nation. Not very lucrative for the arms industry but very lucrative for those who wish not to live in the shadow of another cold war. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

A tree, I am growing a godamn tree. Well, it was here when I moved in but I am taking credit for it anyways. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

I said nothing of letting the Muslims "throw those damn Jews into the sea" (your words). My point is that by continuing to build up arms in the mideast does very little for hope of peace. The US and Russia have long been the main supplier of weapons to what is widely known as a hostile and unstable region. With Iraq now wide open the arms race will only escalate causing more tension. Who do you suppose will be the main supplier in Iraq? Not Russia. They have their corner in Iran and Syria. We have Israel and now, once again, we have Iraq. It is a you throw a rock, I'll throw a bigger rock back kind of thing. As long as people continue to not get along the arms industry will always be on hand to supply what we need the least of, more weapons. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

He may have been in fear of this- Woman Bites off Husband's Genitals from Reuters News Service KAMPALA - A Ugandan woman bit off her husband's penis and testicles during an argument, police said on Wednesday. The woman, Annet Minduru, 30, was in police custody in the capital Kampala and might be charged with causing grievous bodily harm, said the officer in charge of the station, Vigilius Okuni. The independent Monitor newspaper said Minduru had bitten off John Ndekeezi's penis and testicles Sunday night after her 45-year-old husband slapped her. "Because I was so drunk she overpowered me and by the time my neighbor came to my rescue, she had bitten off both my testicles and the penis," Ndekeezi told the paper. Minduru's account of events was not immediately available. The attack came only days after a man died in central Uganda after his wife, angered by his inability to provide for her and his two children, cut off his testicles. The cases come on the heels of a survey showing high levels of domestic violence against women in some parts of Uganda. Last week Vice President Specioza Kazibwe told women legislators she had been forced to end her 23-year marriage because her husband had beaten her even after she was appointed to office. Her husband said he had beaten her only twice. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

Arming Iraq: A Chronology of U.S. Involvement By: John King, March 2003 What follows is an accurate chronology of United States involvement in the arming of Iraq during the Iraq-Iran war 1980-88. It is a powerful indictment of the president Bush administration attempt to sell war as a component of his war on terrorism. It reveals US ambitions in Iraq to be just another chapter in the attempt to regain a foothold in the Mideast following the fall of the Shah of Iran. rming Iraq and the Path to War A crisis always has a history, and the current crisis with Iraq is no exception. Below are some relevant dates. September, 1980. Iraq invades Iran. The beginning of the Iraq-Iran war. [8] February, 1982. Despite objections from congress, President Reagan removes Iraq from its list of known terrorist countries. [1] December, 1982. Hughes Aircraft ships 60 Defender helicopters to Iraq. [9] 1982-1988. Defense Intelligence Agency provides detailed information for Iraq on Iranian deployments, tactical planning for battles, plans for air strikes and bomb damage assessments. [4] November, 1983. A National Security Directive states that the U.S would do "whatever was necessary and legal" to prevent Iraq from losing its war with Iran. [1] & [15] November, 1983. Banca Nazionale del Lavoro of Italy and its Branch in Atlanta begin to funnel $5 billion in unreported loans to Iraq. Iraq, with the blessing and official approval of the US government, purchased computer controlled machine tools, computers, scientific instruments, special alloy steel and aluminum, chemicals, and other industrial goods for Iraq's missile, chemical, biological and nuclear weapons programs. [14] October, 1983. The Reagan Administration begins secretly allowing Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, and Egypt to transfer United States weapons, including Howitzers, Huey helicopters, and bombs to Iraq. These shipments violated the Arms Export Control Act. [16] November 1983. George Schultz, the Secretary of State, is given intelligence reports showing that Iraqi troops are daily using chemical weapons against the Iranians. [1] Donald Rumsfeld -Reagan's Envoy- provided Iraq with chemical & biological weapons December 20, 1983. Donald Rumsfeld , then a civilian and now Defense Secretary, meets with Saddam Hussein to assure him of US friendship and materials support. [1] & [15] July, 1984. CIA begins giving Iraq intelligence necessary to calibrate its mustard gas attacks on Iranian troops. [19] January 14, 1984. State Department memo acknowledges United States shipment of "dual-use" export hardware and technology. Dual use items are civilian items such as heavy trucks, armored ambulances and communications gear as well as industrial technology that can have a military application. [2] March, 1986. The United States with Great Britain block all Security Council resolutions condemning Iraq's use of chemical weapons, and on March 21 the US becomes the only country refusing to sign a Security Council statement condemning Iraq's use of these weapons. [10] May, 1986. The US Department of Commerce licenses 70 biological exports to Iraq between May of 1985 and 1989, including at least 21 batches of lethal strains of anthrax. [3] May, 1986. US Department of Commerce approves shipment of weapons grade botulin poison to Iraq. [7] March, 1987. President Reagan bows to the findings of the Tower Commission admitting the sale of arms to Iran in exchange for hostages. Oliver North uses the profits from the sale to fund an illegal war in Nicaragua. [17] Late 1987. The Iraqi Air Force begins using chemical agents against Kurdish resistance forces in northern Iraq. [1] February, 1988. Saddam Hussein begins the "Anfal" campaign against the Kurds of northern Iraq. The Iraq regime used chemical weapons against the Kurds killing over 100,000 civilians and destroying over 1,200 Kurdish villages. [8] April, 1988. US Department of Commerce approves shipment of chemicals used in manufacture of mustard gas. [7] August, 1988. Four major battles were fought from April to August 1988, in which the Iraqis massively and effectively used chemical weapons to defeat the Iranians. Nerve gas and blister agents such as mustard gas are used. By this time the US Defense Intelligence Agency is heavily involved with Saddam Hussein in battle plan assistance, intelligence gathering and post battle debriefing. In the last major battle with of the war, 65,000 Iranians are killed, many with poison gas. Use of chemical weapons in war is in violation of the Geneva accords of 1925. [6] & [13] August, 1988. Iraq and Iran declare a cease fire. [8] August, 1988. Five days after the cease fire Saddam Hussein sends his planes and helicopters to northern Iraq to begin massive chemical attacks against the Kurds. [8] September, 1988. US Department of Commerce approves shipment of weapons grade anthrax and botulinum to Iraq. [7] September, 1988. Richard Murphy, Assistant Secretary of State: "The US-Iraqi relationship is... important to our long-term political and economic objectives." [15] December, 1988. Dow chemical sells $1.5 million in pesticides to Iraq despite knowledge that these would be used in chemical weapons. [1] July 25, 1990. US Ambassador to Baghdad meets with Hussein to assure him that President Bush "wanted better and deeper relations". Many believe this visit was a trap set for Hussein. A month later Hussein invaded Kuwait thinking the US would not respond. [12] August, 1990 Iraq invades Kuwait. The precursor to the Gulf War. [8] July, 1991 The Financial Times of London reveals that a Florida chemical company had produced and shipped cyanide to Iraq during the 80's using a special CIA courier. Cyanide was used extensively against the Iranians. [11] August, 1991. Christopher Droguol of Atlanta's branch of Banca Nazionale del Lavoro is arrested for his role in supplying loans to Iraq for the purchase of military supplies. He is charged with 347 counts of felony. Droguol is found guilty, but US officials plead innocent of any knowledge of his crime. [14] June, 1992. Ted Kopple of ABC Nightline reports: "It is becoming increasingly clear that George Bush Sr., operating largely behind the scenes throughout the 1980's, initiated and supported much of the financing, intelligence, and military help that built Saddam's Iraq into [an aggressive power]." [5] July, 1992. "The Bush administration deliberately, not inadvertently, helped to arm Iraq by allowing U.S. technology to be shipped to Iraqi military and to Iraqi defense factories... Throughout the course of the Bush administration, U.S. and foreign firms were granted export licenses to ship U.S. technology directly to Iraqi weapons facilities despite ample evidence showing that these factories were producing weapons." Representative Henry Gonzalez, Texas, testimony before the House. [18] February, 1994. Senator Riegle from Michigan, chairman of the Senate Banking Committee, testifies before the senate revealing large US shipments of dual-use biological and chemical agents to Iraq that may have been used against US troops in the Gulf War and probably was the cause of the illness known as Gulf War Syndrome. [7] August, 2002. "The use of gas [during the Iran-Iraq war] on the battle field by the Iraqis was not a matter of deep strategic concern... We were desperate to make sure that Iraq did not lose". Colonel Walter Lang, former senior US Defense Intelligence officer tells the New York Times. [4] This chronology of the United States' sordid involvement in the arming of Iraq can be summarized in this way: The United States used methods both legal and illegal to help build Saddam's army into the most powerful army in the Mideast outside of Israel. The US supplied chemical and biological agents and technology to Iraq when it knew Iraq was using chemical weapons against the Iranians. The US supplied the materials and technology for these weapons of mass destruction to Iraq at a time when it was know that Saddam was using this technology to kill his Kurdish citizens. The United States supplied intelligence and battle planning information to Iraq when those battle plans included the use of cyanide, mustard gas and nerve agents. The United States blocked UN censure of Iraq's use of chemical weapons. The United States did not act alone in this effort. The Soviet Union was the largest weapons supplier, but England, France and Germany were also involved in the shipment of arms and technology. References: Washingtonpost.com. December 30, 2002 Jonathan Broder. Nuclear times, Winter 1990-91 Kurt Nimno. AlterNet. September 23, 2002 Newyorktimes.com. August 29, 2002 ABC Nightline. June9, 1992 Counter Punch, October 10, 2002 Riegle Report: Dual Use Exports. Senate Committee on Banking. May 25, 1994 Timeline: A walk Through Iraq's History. U.S. Department of State Doing Business: The Arming of Iraq. Daniel Robichear Glen Rangwala. Labor Left Briefing, 16 September, 2002 Financial Times of London. July 3, 1991 Elson E. Boles. Counter Punch. October 10, 2002 Iran-Iraq War, 1980-1988. Iranchamber.com Columbia Journalism Review. March/April 1993. Iraqgate Times Online. December 31, 2002. How U.S. Helped Iraq Build Deadly Arsenal Bush's Secret Mission. The New Yorker Magazine. November 2, 1992 Grolier Multimedia Encyclopedia: Iran-Contra Affair Congressional Record. July 27, 1992. Representative Henry B. Gonzalez Bob Woodward. CIA Aiding Iraq in Gulf War. Washington Post. 15 December, 1986 Case Study: The Anfal Campaign. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

Iran will kick the crap out of Isreal much like they did to Iraq (80-88), even though Iraq was heavily backed by the Reagan Admin.(the ship I was on spent more than 50 days off the coast of Iran/Iraq providing support to Saddam) The US continuation of supplying arms to facilitate an arms race in the mid-east does nothing but jepordize relationships with the Muslim people. It is obvious that the US does not care who it jumps in bed with as long as it serves its purpose. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

Please go to www.childsuicide.homestead.com for a wealth of support. My heart goes out to you and yours. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

***"Beautiful" - nope. Just another biological function that I, as a Westerner, do not care to observe in public; along with urination, defecation, procreation, vomiting, and a host of other biological functions. Ever been to a Boogie? ***we're civilized here. Speak for yourself. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

QuoteCardinal Joseph Ratzinger of Germany elected Pope Becomes Benedict the XVI All Hail, The New Pope Dic. Hey, dude, is that a condom on your head. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

Well, that did it. So much for breakfast. You sick fuck. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

There is alot of information on this camera at camcorderinfo.com. Some pro and con views on CMOS technology over CCD. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

looks fake and set up. Where is the proof that this is real? Looks like to store clerks who were bored. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

***Conclusion: We should immediately pull out of Washington, D.C. I fully agree. We need to insert an interim government that is by the people, for the people. Being that D.C. is such a violent place and that it is basically a terrorist state, we need a coalition of the willing to secure the peace before we can even consider change. Much like Iraq.(since the coalition arrived in Iraq it has become the summer vacation mecca for terrorist the world over) "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

***US policy is to only use nukes if they, or other NBC weapons are used against us, and if NBC weapons are used against us, we will use nukes in response... I support that policy... Not so. The US threatened to use Nukes at the Chosin Resevoir in Korea in 1953. The US also threatened to use Nukes to enforce acceptance of the US terms of peace at Panmunjon, Korea in 1953. Again in 1961 during the Berlin crisis and in 1962 during the Cuban missle crisis. In 1968 to force an end to the Chinese blockade of the offshore islands of Quemoy and Matsu. The US also offered nuclear wepons to the French in 1954 to use in defence of Dienbienphu. The US also planned to use nukes in Laos at the Mu Gia pass in 1967 in order to destroy the Ho Chi Minh Trail. And again in 1968 at Khe Sanh. Nixon threatened the Hanoi regime in 1969 if they did not accept his terms. He planned to use nukes to escalate the war. Hanoi of course did not accept because they knew that Nixon faced opposition to the war in the US and that if it was known of his plan he would have had a full blown civil war on US soil. It does not stop there up untill the present the US has threatened the use of nukes as a deterrent, ofton unknown to the population. It is only a matter of time untill someone goes through with such threats. Peace through superior firepower "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young