freethefly

Making martyrs will not stop them as they seem to enjoy dying for god. You sitting here in the US all safe and snug stroking your ego does nothing, also. Why not join up? Step into the arena of the insanity and try your luck. Maybe you'll return all safe and entact. Maybe just lose an arm or two. Or maybe you'll return in a box and someday in the future have your name engraved on a wall. I am pushing 50 years old and missed Vietnam but did join when we all were sure that we were going to have a go with Iran. If I knew then what I know now, I would had not been so gung-ho. Truth is those who are riled into doing the "patriotic duty" have little if no idea what all the fighting is about. A few insurgents dead? A few Americans dead? They will keep coming and Uncle Sammy will keep sending. Tit for tat. in the end it will all be for nothing. Much the same as the Vietnam war was for nothing but a memorial. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

***P.S. The site itself is stupid, illogical and inflammatory to no purpose. Enlighten me. How is it that the truth and reality of warfare stupid, illogical and inflammatory to no purpose. Pro-war propaganda will have you believe that everyone who goes to war will be a hero like in a John Wayne movie. How many will be willing to go if they are given a book that shows such pictures at the time they walk into a recuiters office? Are you in the military? Have you gone over there to fight? Do not ask me the same I was over there in the early eighties as we gave air support to Saddam during the Iraqi-Iran war. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

BULLSHIT!!!! Everyone knows helicopters can't fly!!!! "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

***you've gottta be shitting me right? Not at all. You did not pick up on the double standard that I was alluding to. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

***I suspect he didn't think his own post through very much either... same penalties for alcohol as for drugs? Sure, ok... get caught with a beer go to jail, get caught with a 6-pack you get a felony trial for posession with intent to distribute. The more you follow the logic the funnier it gets. Or unfunnier since all it does is point out the psychosis of most drug laws, but nuff said I suspect that you too did not pick up on the implication of the double standards that are applied in this country involving alcohol use vs drug use. Since alcohol is a drug and does far more damage than marijuana the same penalty should apply. College students lose federal funding if caught with a joint while but a slap on the hand for alcohol abuse. Each and every year students die from over indulgence of alcohol in frat houses and spring break parties. Not a single person has ever died from smoking pot. All the while drinking is viewed as a rite of passage. Personally, I have used marijuana since 1972. Like many other responsible users it has never affected my life in a negative manner unlike alcohol has. It is near impossiable to tell if a person has recently smoked as they go about doing their regular routine on a daily basis. The same cannot be said for alcohol. My own father smoked pot for well over 50 years and was extremely successful in the military and in business after retiring from the Navy in 1972. There are those in our society who veiw marijuana use as the epicenter of evil. Weed from satans garden, They are far from reality and believe the propaganda put forth by the government. More to the truth the government has used negative propaganda to justify their over bloated budget to "combat" drugs. They have done zero to stem the use of any drugs and have only increased crime rate and filled prisons to the point that a cottage industry of corporate ran prisons grew from their inability to face the facts. The safest and most useful drug, marijuana, has been the focus point since Harry Anslinger villified it in the 1930's. The mentality that prevailed then, prevails today. Nixon, in 1972, commisioned a panel to get to the truth. The panel found that marijuana was, for the most part, a harmless drug and that it had many positive uses. He was so enraged that he threw it in a trash can and then declared a war on drugs, namely marijuana. The number of good citizens that have done time since is mind warping. All the while alcohol enjoys the limelight of being fun and hip. Smoke marijuana and you are a dirty, no good, anti-establishment hippy. You want truth? Go to the National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws website. NORML will give you the straight dope. No pun intended. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

Actually I have no problem with people who drink. That is their business and this is a "free society". What everyone missed is the double standard that I was implying to. Prohibition was a bad idea and from it came a blackmarket that was highly profitable to the crime families of the time. The same is with drugs. Particular to marijuana prohibition and the same with all drugs. I am not suggesting that people use drugs only that people will use regardless as was with alcohol during prohibition. To enact legislation to solve a problem only encourges a blackmarket. Legalizing or decriminalizing certain substances will not encourage more drug use. Marijuana surely should not be in the same schedule as heroin. Treating cannibis on the same level as alcohol and nicotine would not have a negative but a positive effect on society at levels from reduced crime, economic and medical. Being arrested for cannabis is the greatest harm for using. The harm comes from removing an productive person from society. Most everyone knows someone who enjoys a joint at the end of the day much as everyone knows someone who has a beer or a glass of wine at the end of the day. Any reasonable person can see no harm done. Yet some substances remain illegal while others are not. I did not forget the lessons of prohibition, yet it seems that the government did and their forgetfulness caused more harm than good. The drug cartels are proof much like the Capones and Malones of the prohibition era are proof of what comes from the prohibition of a substance that people will use regardless. Demand and supply. Laws need to be equal and common sense should dictate such laws. You cannot legislate your way out of a problem. Locking people up for simple possession is not the answer. Treat one like the other and do away with an ever growing black market. Prohibition did not work and the "war on drugs" is not working. Billions are spent each year and each year that budget grows while not a dent is put on the black market. Some drugs are very bad for some people same as alcohol is very bad for some people. That is a given. Society will always have those who cannot maintain. Yet to apply a double standard is not the answer. Education will do more to curb a problem than laws prohibiting will. Millions are spent on anti drug ads and have had no effect yet at the same time millions are spent by the alcohol industry and has had a devestating effect. There should be no ads to promote either. Only to educate without prejudice or misinformation. We all have seen the anti marijuana ads. Any semi intelligent person would find these laughable. Untill the truth is told and common sense prevails the problem will never go away. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

people who use alcohol should not be allowed a drivers lisence. Any college student found to be using alcohol should lose financial aid (they lose it if caught smoking pot, same should be for alcohol). Any alcohol in a house that has children in it should be considered abuse and parental rights should be taken away from those parents. anyone caught with alcohol within 1000' of a school should be given a lengthy prison term. Anyone drinking and driving should be given a life sentence, no parol. Anyone who kills someone in a drunk driving accident should be given a death sentence. Any law that applies to drugs should apply to alcohol. Alcohol is one the most dangerous drugs known yet it is advertised as the hip and fun thing to do. It kills more people than all the illegal drugs combined, excluding marijuana which has never killed anyone. All advertising for alcohol should be banned. There should be an extremely high tax on alcohol to pay for all the damage that has been done due to its use. Alcohol has destroyed more families than all the illegal drugs combined. Drunk people are a danger. Alcohol should be banned at dz's. How ofton have you seen a tandem master drink all night and then do tandems seveeral hours later. An airline pilot would do time for trying to fly if they drinked untill the wee hours and then got in the cockpit. Same should apply in skydiving. Skydivers are notorious for drinking all night and then gearing up several hours later. I have heard people bitch about jumpers who smoke pot and then jump later but no one complains about hungover jumpers and tandem masters. Alcohol should be banned from all dz's and boogies. Any jumper known to have drinked within 24 hours of arriving to a dz or boogie should be banned for 24 hours. Breath test should be given to jumpers when arriving to the dz. I would feel much safer. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

*** So, in short, it's not the President's fault you don't have health insurance, it's your lack of proactiveness. I own a small business that I operate from my house and I do business with a fair number of people. Since the last factory job I had went to Mexico I had to go on Medicaid and Medicare. I invested into those by way of tax dollars as do everyone else who has ever paid taxes. It is shocking how some people do not wonder what becomes of the money they invest into the government. If you were to invest into any corporation would you not expect a return or would you just be happy to know that someone is driving a fancy car and living high on the hog while nothing trickles down to the investors? I much rather see my investment in this government work for me and everyone else in this country and not spent overseas in places like Iraq. You do not know me yet you think that I sit on my ass expecting a handout. Also I am thinking that you have no idea what healthcare cost and what is required to secure it. There is no insurance that will handle me due to a pre-existing health problem. Insurance companies want healthy people who will live a great long while and hope that they never have to pay out. I fully expect MY GOVERNMENT to help me as I helped the government. I fully expect the government to help every american and do not believe that is an unreasonable expectation. When a government by the people, for the people do not produce then it is a government that is unacceptable and drastic change needs to occur to assure that all americans can expect help to get them back on their feet. If someday you find yourself in a bad way then you will know what I mean. Untill then you are clueless. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

First on healthcare. Medicaid and medicare cuts. The lowering of the poverty level have knocked a huge number off of the list of those in need. When I was on the list I did pay a large amount out of pocket for care and medication. I had to choose between healthcare and food. It is one or the other, can't have both. Now that I have no source of healthcare, the choice is simplified. Treatment for HIV/AIDS is extremely high and the government flatout refuse to help those in need. Part of funding for a lot of people infected came through organizations such as the Ryan White Fund. Being that it is not a faith based group the Bush administration took them off of the list of groups that they will fund. Not many groups on their short list. If you are not christian you are basically out of luck when in need. I can no longer afford to seek treatment and more or less resign myself to just letting the illness run its course. Untill then I will just jump and enjoy life. You are right about the local gov't in NO also I would add that a small number of local "citizens" are also to blame for what has happened down there. It seems that catastrophes bring out the worst in some people. But I would also add that the people at the top should had seen this coming, the civil unrest. The disorderly conduct of the few has made it a quagmire for the rest who are doing their best with what little they have. Yet much more could had been done beforehand in the way of prepareness. I realize that that sounds like hindsight. But fact is we all know that lightening can strike anywhere at any time and that we all need to be prepared and never let the guard sleep. Lots of blame to be passed around on this one and it should start at the top. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

He is in charge of this country and under him it is in a handbasket on its way to hell. During his administration the good things that were being done before him have gone downhill. Loss of good paying jobs, health care (lost my health care and I have a terminal illness, I have zero care now thanks to this administration), rising energy cost, a country at war with a country that did not attack us. There is a long and growing list of blunders. All the while him and his cronies have done nothing but pat themselves on the back and have turned this country towards civil unrest. This current crisis with the aftermath of Katrina is just one example of how little they have done to prepare this nation at any level to handle a catastrophe. If they were as quick to help Americans as they were to get into Iraq I would say differantly. Their arrogance is appalling and they should be ashamed of their wastefulness of time and resources. Bush calls for zero tolerance towards looters no matter if it is food or TV sets. Well if they were prepared and quick like they were to wage war in Iraq much of the looting would had been TV sets and not food. The government had dropped the ball terribly on this one and should be held accountable much like the CEO's of failed corporations. Heads should roll and no one at the top should be allowed to pat their own back. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

***I will be enjoying God's fellowship forever, along with people from the Bible, martyrs, and lost loved ones. Quote Oh, don't forget that you will also be there with murderers, child molesters, rapist, politicians, lawyers, thieves, and all the other dregs who accepted your jesus. You yourself say god is pure love. The bible says that god accapts all who accepts him. Besides according to the bible no sin is greater or less than the other. Killing someone is no worst than screwing your neighbors wife in gods eyes. Those are the only two of the ten commandments that I remember hearing. Starting skipping church after discovering tits. Never killed anyone but did bang my neighbors wife. According to the bible I am no better than a serial killer. I can go and sin, sin, and sin some more and in the end accept jesus and all is honky dorey. Fucking A diddybag (Navy term for "alright!!!!). This sounds like a great deal to me. Besides it is much more fun to cuss, drink,smoke and chase loose babes than it is to sit and pray for something that will never materialize. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

But he LOVES tits. Hey, if you see him, tell him that I want my collection of girls gone wild back. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

If you make a righthand turn on the otherside you find redhot women and ice cold beer. If you screw up and go left it's redhot beer and ice cold women. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

***Just a theory If parents and advocates for change like Dittie get their way, physics teachers may be required to read a statement to their classes as early as next fall, acknowledging that Newton's explanation of gravity is a theory, not a law as it has often been described in the past. "If it's a law, that means that there are penalties for breaking it," explains Dittie. "Newton obviously came up with one theory of how gravity works, but there are others as well." If someone were to throw her stupid ass out of a plane without a rig I am sure she would quickly come to an conclusion that it is a law and the penalty for breaking it is very severe But then I maybe wrong and maybe we all have magnets in our feet that hold us to the planets molted iron core "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

Saw this morning that some are stealing food, water and other items and selling them at the shelters. I liken these people to be much like the oil companies. When an item is most needed someone will profit. Sad world. As far as shooting these people as some suggest, that is also a sad response. Besides what will they do with all the bodies? Seems we live in a world reversed. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

***What if Bush is an extraterrestrial? Nope, he's not one of us. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

This is a waste of resource and time and does nothing at all. To say that an hemp flavor sucker will turn kids into drug addicts shows the level of intelligence that permeates the political self right. All the while alcohol is expressed on TV and ads geared towards the youngest legal drinkers as the fun and hip thing to do. Underaged drinking is by far more harmful than some teenager with a potsucker or a joint. To think a piece of candy needs to be legislated to save the children is absurd and a waste of tax revenue. RASTA CITIES NOT HIGH ON 'POT SUCKERS' by Mary Ann Fergus, Staff Reporter, (Source:Chicago Tribune) 30 Aug 2005 Illinois ------- Celebrities May Like Herb-Flavored Candies, But Some Towns Want Nothing To Do With Them The likes of Snoop Dogg, Nelly and Paris Hilton aren't mentioned in many city ordinances, but two new laws banning the sale of marijuana-flavored candies--one in Chicago, the other in the northwest suburbs--take a swipe at the celebrities for endorsing the bitter-tasting products. Schaumburg last week became the latest to say no to the hemp-flavored candies, which are popular with young people even though they don't contain the main ingredient in marijuana that causes a high. With names like "Pot Suckers," the candies were sold for about a year at Woodfield Mall's Spencer Gifts amid the lava lamps, gag gifts and "High Street" signs. Lawmakers say the candies send the wrong message to children, but young people and the candymakers argue that they're nothing but sugar-filled novelty items and contend that such laws will have little impact on actual drug use. "The only people who buy that candy are young kids who already smoke marijuana," said Brian Bos, 20, of Elk Grove Village after leaving the Spencer store in Schaumburg. "If anything, it's not a gateway [to drugs] because they've already been gated." Cities and states across the country are passing or considering similar laws, but Illinois, where Atty. Gen. Lisa Madigan is leading the effort, seems to be one of the most aggressive. Chicago was the first major city to outlaw the sale of the candies when its law passed June 29. Madigan launched an investigation into the candy companies this summer and sent letters to cities alerting them to the products and their potential dangers. Soon after, local politicians, from Chicago Ald. Edward Burke to officials in Orland Park, Niles and Schaumburg, passed ordinances with penalties of up to $750 a day and possible revocation of business licenses for anyone caught selling the candy. The Pot Suckers brand is produced by ICUP Inc. and was sold for about a year in stores nationwide. Another company, California-based Chronic Candy, sells its version of hemp-flavored lollipops and gumdrops at concerts and on the Internet in druglike quantities such as "Nickel Bag" with the slogan, "Every lick is like taking a hit." After Madigan subpoenaed ICUP Inc., the New Jersey company voluntarily discontinued the sale and distribution of Pot Suckers. Madigan's investigation was among many factors that led to the late June decision, said company President Steven Trachtenberg. "It was a very controversial product, and we felt that our other products would potentially suffer," Trachtenberg said. A few of the green lollipops are still available in a handful of Illinois Spencer stores where they haven't been banned and cost $1.99 each with a wrapper that claims "tastes like the real 'deal.'" Those fighting to legalize marijuana, while against banning the sweets, say the candies taste awful. "Foul, and the word 'nasty' is what is usually evoked," when describing hemp-flavored candies, said Allen St. Pierre, director of NORML, or the National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws. Tom Durkin, a Chicago lawyer who represents Chronic Candy, described the taste as grassy and oily and said the product contains hemp oil. St. Pierre said marijuana candy has been around forever but the celebrity endorsements are what created the buzz in council chambers. Their role is reflected in the Chicago and Schaumburg laws, which both contain this passage among others that describe marijuana's harmful effects: "Whereas popular, influential and notorious celebrities, such as Snoop Dogg, Warren G, Nelly and Paris Hilton, have endorsed such hemp-based candies ..." A clip of Snoop Dogg saying on the Conan O'Brien show that he uses Chronic Candy is featured on the company's Web site, along with a TV report that mentions that Paris Hilton likes the candy. In the past, the site featured a photo of rapper and producer Warren G wearing a Chronic Candy T-shirt. New York City Councilwoman Margarita Lopez has offered a less aggressive approach, introducing a resolution to condemn the candies. In Michigan, Democratic state Rep. Dudley Spade has proposed a state ban on their sale. "It sends the wrong message to our young people," Spade said. "It tells them that smoking marijuana is a cool thing." Madigan's office said it is still waiting for more documents and information from Chronic Candy about the company's marketing practices. Madigan is investigating whether the company has broken deceptive-advertising laws. "Our goal is to keep them away from children because the message should not be sent that candy is like drugs," said Madigan spokeswoman Melissa Merz. Chronic Candy, based in Corona, Calif., has a pending contract to sell the product in Illinois, Durkin said. "My client doesn't market to children and has no desire to market to children," Durkin said. "The candy is made with ingredients that are common in every hard candy sold in the United States. All the legislative reaction to this is nothing but sheer political grandstanding." Orland Park Police Chief Tim McCarthy disagrees. "There's enough pressure on these kids at a very early age, from their peers and such, that they don't need any more pressure or influence on them, particularly when they are using all the drug phraseology and all the terms," McCarthy said. Pot Suckers have been popular among Spencer Gifts' target shoppers, age 18 to 24, said spokeswoman Heather Golin. "This is definitely an item that our guests like," she said. "It's a flavor of candy, just like there are pina colada-flavored jelly and candy." "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

Thats good. If we would go ahead and send enough troops over to get this over, all the better. BTW the additional 1500 are there due to the anticipated violence during the elections.*** It is obvious that this strategy of continuing to send more troops is not working and most likely will never work as the violence in Iraq will continue while the U.S. tries to instill an American style government. The insurgents and most likely a high number of Iraqis will settle for nothing less than an Islamic Rule. The violence will continue. The U.S. will continue to send troops. Americans will continue to die there. Haliburton will continue to profit building schools (all the while schools in the U.S. continue to close due to lack of funding). Insurgents will continue to occupy said buildings. The U.S. will continue to bomb said buildings and haliburton will continue to rebuild. All the while the U.S. will continue to send more troops, more money. I see nothing noble in this. Sending more troops will never get the U.S. out of this. The insurgents and Iragis who are deadset against the U.S. have an endless supply of people willing to fight. They come from all points and are willing to drive car bombs. Their kind are the most dangerous and are impossiable to defeat. I have no solution to this quagmire anymore than the government does or anybody who post at this site does. What alarms me though is the number of people who are willing to be lemmings and follow without questioning the reason. It seems the U.S. is in for a long hard ride and it most likely will get harder as it gets longer. I liken this war to what the Palenstinians and the Israelies have been doing for years. No one is ever pleased, no matter the outcome. If Islamic Rule does gain control, what then? Another shock and awe? If the U.S. does not get what it wants and the whole shithouse goes up in flames will those who follow Bush blindly continue on with his "noble cause" and jump into the meatgrinder. More good would had been served if the attention given to Iraq would have been given to finding Bin Laden. Bringing him down would had been a noble cause that many would gladly stood for. Sadly Bin Laden still fights today and most likely will fight for many years to come. Saddam wasn't the threat. He was contained and going nowhere while Bin Laden is free to continue on. The administration has no grasp of the word priority. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

It's not smart to mess with mother nature. Whether it is with animals or plant life the negative effect ofton rules over positive. Once in motion adverse effect is hard to overcome. A good example is Kudzu, a creeping vine, introduced into the southern states to remedy erosion. That stuff is now everywhere and a big problem that cannot be reversed. Or maybe one should look at killer bees that are migrating north. Not to say that putting elephants on the plains would be as devestating but why mess with an ecosystem that has already been comprimised. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

Why are these children allowed to play in a war zone?(yeah, I know, the whole damn country is a war zone since the invasion/occupation) Why do their parents let them out of their sight? It is a known fact that soilders are a target, why let children get near them? For a piece of candy? This shit of little kids getting their bodies shredded by bombs has been going on since the laughable "Shock and Awe". But of course, those deaths were "collateral damage" and were expected. What a waste. I do not support AQ and surely do not gree with what they do, also I do not support GWB and do not agree with what he is doing. In my eyes they are both equally shameful. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

US President George W Bush says the London bombings demonstrate the importance of fighting terrorists in Iraq. Had they(the Coalition) not invaded Irag, under false pretense or any other pretense, the bombing most likely would not had happened and US military personnel would still be visiting London. I suppose that the same can be said here in the US of future attacks that are sure to come. Martial Law is, most likely, somewhere in our future as sleeper cells are activated around the globe. To believe that these people cannot shut us down is foolish. They constantly demonstrate their ability to blend in and adapt to the enviroment in which they operate. Much like openning Pandora's Box there is now a much heavier price to pay and we will be paying long after Bush and Blair are gone. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

Jesus, I'm going to have put on my waist high boots to wade though this bullshit. Apparently you bought into the post Lincoln reconstruction view of the South. It was United States citizens that disagreed with what could happen to them, then the Union government basically told them all to fuck off. Look at the election results in which Lincoln won, how many ballots below the mason-dixion line was old Abe in? How many southern states voted for him? What about the changes that was trying to be made without the southern influence? I keep getting surprised at how you percieve history and leave out important details. I'm also fairly offended at your comparison between the Civil War and the terrorists the US is currently fighting. Its a stereotype liberal arguement, all emotion, no facts. I agree, anyone who place the Confederacy in the same boat with terrorist need to do some simple research on the true reasons why they did what they did. In my view, the men and women who fought against the over reaching arm of the Federal Government were some of bravest men and women. They fought to protect the Articles of Confederation. If you are unaware of what it is, here it is: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Articles of Confederation -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Articles of Confederation and Perpetual Union -- 1777 To all to whom these Presents shall come, we the undersigned Delegates of the States affixed to our Names, send greeting. Whereas the Delegates of the United States of America, in Congress assembled, did, on the 15th day of November, in the Year of Our Lord One thousand Seven Hundred and Seventy seven, and in the Second Year of the Independence of America, agree to certain articles of Confederation and perpetual Union between the States of New-hampshire, Massachusetts-bay, Rhodeisland and Providence Plantations, Connecticut, New York, New Jersey Pennsylvania, Delaware, Maryland, Virginia, North-Carolina, South-Carolina, and Georgia in the words following, viz. "Articles of Confederation and perpetual Union between the states of New-hampshire, Massachusetts-bay, Rhodeisland and Providence Plantations, Connecticut, New-York, New-Jersey, Pennsylvania, Delaware, Maryland, Virginia, North-Carolina, South-Carolina and Georgia". -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Article I. The Stile of this confederacy shall be "The United States of America." -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Article II. Each state retains its sovereignty, freedom, and independence, and every Power, Jurisdiction and right, which is not by this confederation expressly delegated to the United States, in Congress assembled. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Article III. The said states hereby severally enter into a firm league of friendship with each other, for their common defence, the security of their Liberties, and their mutual and general welfare, binding themselves to assist each other, against all force offered to, or attacks made upon them, or any of them, on account of religion, sovereignty, trade, or any other pretence whatever. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Article IV. The better to secure and perpetuate mutual friendship and intercourse among the people of the different states in this union, the free inhabitants of each of these states, paupers, vagabonds and fugitives from justice excepted, shall be entitled to all privileges and immunities of free citizens in the several states; and the people of each state shall have free ingress and regress to and from any other state, and shall enjoy therein all the privileges of trade and commerce, subject to the same duties impositions and restrictions as the inhabitants thereof respectively, provided that such restriction shall not extend so far as to prevent the removal of property imported into any state, to any other state, of which the Owner is an inhabitant; provided also that no imposition, duties or restriction shall be laid by any state, on the property of the united states, or either of them. If any Person guilty of, or charged with treason, felony, - or other high misdemeanor in any state, shall flee from Justice, and be found in any of the united states, he shall, upon demand of the Governor or executive power, of the state from which he fled, be delivered up and removed to the state having jurisdiction of his offence. Full faith and credit shall be given in each of these states to the records, acts and judicial proceedings of the courts and magistrates of every other state. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Article V. For the more convenient management of the general interests of the united states, delegates shall be annually appointed in such manner as the legislature of each state shall direct, to meet in Congress on the first Monday in November, in every year, with a power reserved to each state, to recal its delegates, or any of them, at any time within the year, and to send others in their stead, for the remainder of the Year. No state shall be represented in Congress by less than two, nor by more than seven Members; and no person shall be capable of being a delegate for more than three years in any term of six years; nor shall any person, being a delegate, be capable of holding any office under the united states, for which he, or another for his benefit receives any salary, fees or emolument of any kind. Each state shall maintain its own delegates in a meeting of the states, and while they act as members of the committee of the states. In determining questions in the united states in Congress assembled, each state shall have one vote. Freedom of speech and debate in Congress shall not be impeached or questioned in any Court, or place out of Congress, and the members of congress shall be protected in their persons from arrests and imprisonments, during the time of their going to and from, and attendance on congress, except for treason, felony, or breach of the peace. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Article VI. No state, without the Consent of the united states in congress assembled, shall send any embassy to, or receive any embassy from, or enter into any conference agreement, alliance or treaty with any King prince or state; nor shall any person holding any office of profit or trust under the united states, or any of them, accept of any present, emolument, office or title of any kind whatever from any king, prince or foreign state; nor shall the united states in congress assembled, or any of them, grant any title of nobility. No two or more states shall enter into any treaty, confederation or alliance whatever between them, without the consent of the united states in congress assembled, specifying accurately the purposes for which the same is to be entered into, and how long it shall continue. No state shall lay any imposts or duties, which may interfere with any stipulations in treaties, entered into by the united states in congress assembled, with any king, prince or state, in pursuance of any treaties already proposed by congress, to the courts of France and Spain. No vessels of war shall be kept up in time of peace by any state, except such number only, as shall be deemed necessary by the united states in congress assembled, for the defence of such state, or its trade; nor shall any body of forces be kept up by any state, in time of peace, except such number only, as in the judgment of the united states, in congress assembled, shall be deemed requisite to garrison the forts necessary for the defence of such state; but every state shall always keep up a well regulated and disciplined militia, sufficiently armed and accoutered, and shall provide and constantly have ready for use, in public stores, a due number of field pieces and tents, and a proper quantity of arms, ammunition and camp equipage. No state shall engage in any war without the consent of the united states in congress assembled, unless such state be actually invaded by enemies, or shall have received certain advice of a resolution being formed by some nation of Indians to invade such state, and the danger is so imminent as not to admit of a delay till the united states in congress assembled can be consulted: nor shall any state grant commissions to any ships or vessels of war, nor letters of marque or reprisal, except it be after a declaration of war by the united states in congress assembled, and then only against the kingdom or state and the subjects thereof, against which war has been so declared, and under such regulations as shall be established by the united states in congress assembled, unless such state be infested by pirates, in which case vessels of war may be fitted out for that occasion, and kept so long as the danger shall continue, or until the united states in congress assembled, shall determine otherwise. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Article VII. When land-forces are raised by any state for the common defence, all officers of or under the rank of colonel, shall be appointed by the legislature of each state respectively, by whom such forces shall be raised, or in such manner as such state shall direct, and all vacancies shall be filled up by the State which first made the appointment. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Article VIII. All charges of war, and all other expences that shall be incurred for the common defence or general welfare, and allowed by the united states in congress assembled, shall be def rayed out of a common treasury, which shall be supplied by the several states in proportion to the value of all land within each state, granted to or surveyed for any Person, as such land and the buildings and improvements thereon shall be estimated according to such mode as the united states in congress assembled, shall from time to time direct and appoint. The taxes for paying that proportion shall be laid and levied by the authority and direction of the legislatures of the several states within the time agreed upon by the united states in congress assembled. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Article IX. The united states in congress assembled, shall have the sole and exclusive right and power of determining on peace and war, except in the cases mentioned in the sixth article -- of sending and receiving ambassadors -- entering into treaties and alliances, provided that no treaty of commerce shall be made whereby the legislative power of the respective states shall be restrained from imposing such imposts and duties on foreigners as their own people are subjected to, or from prohibiting the exportation or importation of any species of goods or commodities, whatsoever -- of establishing rules for deciding in all cases, what captures on land or water shall be legal, and in what manner prizes taken by land or naval forces in the service of the united states shall be divided or appropriated -- of granting letters of marque and reprisal in times of peace -- appointing courts for the trial of piracies and felonies committed on the high seas and establishing courts for receiving and determining finally appeals in all cases of captures, provided that no member of congress shall be appointed a judge of any of the said courts. The united states in congress assembled shall also be the last resort on appeal in all disputes and differences now subsisting or that hereafter may arise between two or more states concerning boundary, jurisdiction or any other cause whatever; which authority shall always be exercised in the manner following. Whenever the legislative or executive authority or lawful agent of any state in controversy with another shall present a petition to congress stating the matter in question and praying for a hearing, notice thereof shall be given by order of congress to the legislative or executive authority of the other state in controversy, and a day assigned for the appearance of the parties by their lawful agents, who shall then be directed to appoint by joint consent, commissioners or judges to constitute a court for hearing and determining the matter in question: but if they cannot agree, congress shall name three persons out of each of the united states, and from the list of such persons each party shall alternately strike out one, the petitioners beginning, until the number shall be reduced to thirteen; and from that number not less than seven, nor more than nine names as congress shall direct, shall in the presence of congress be drawn out by lot, and the persons whose names shall be so drawn or any five of them, shall be commissioners or judges, to hear and finally determine the controversy, so always as a major part of the judges who shall hear the cause shall agree in the determination: and if either party shall neglect to attend at the day appointed, without showing reasons, which congress shall judge sufficient, or being present shall refuse to strike, the congress shall proceed to nominate three persons out of each state, and the secretary of congress shall strike in behalf of such party absent or refusing; and the judgment and sentence of the court to be appointed, in the manner before prescribed, shall be final and conclusive; and if any of the parties shall refuse to submit to the authority of such court, or to appear or defend their claim or cause, the court shall nevertheless proceed to pronounce sentence, or judgment, which shall in like manner be final and decisive, the judgment or sentence and other proceedings being in either case transmitted to congress, and lodged among the acts of congress for the security of the parties concerned: provided that every commissioner, before he sits in judgment, shall take an oath to be administered by one of the judges of the supreme or superior court of the state, where the cause shall be tried, "well and truly to hear and determine the matter in question, according to the best of his judgment, without favour, affection or hope of reward:" provided also, that no state shall be deprived of territory for the benefit of the united states. All controversies concerning the private right of soil claimed under different grants of two or more states, whose jurisdictions as they may respect such lands, and the states which passed such grants are adjusted, the said grants or either of them being at the same time claimed to have originated antecedent to such settlement of jurisdiction, shall on the petition of either party to the congress of the united states, be finally determined as near as may be in the same manner as is before prescribed for deciding disputes respecting territorial jurisdiction between different states. The united states in congress assembled shall also have the sole and exclusive right and power of regulating the alloy and value of coin struck by their own authority, or by that of the respective states -- fixing the standard of weights and measures throughout the united states -- regulating the trade and managing all affairs with the Indians, not members of any of the states, provided that the legislative right of any state within its own limits be not infringed or violated -- establishing or regulating post offices from one state to another, throughout all the united states, and exacting such postage on the papers passing thro' the same as may be requisite to defray the expences of the said office -- appointing all officers of the land forces, in the service of the united states, excepting regimental officers -- appointing all the officers of the naval forces, and commissioning all officers whatever in the service of the united states -- making rules for the government and regulation of the said land and naval forces, and directing their operations. The united states in congress assembled shall have authority to appoint a committee, to sit in the recess of congress, to be denominated "A Committee of the States," and to consist of one delegate from each state; and to appoint such other committees and civil officers as may be necessary for managing the general affairs of the united states under their direction -- to appoint one of their number to preside, provided that no person be allowed to serve in the office of president more than one year in any term of three years; to ascertain the necessary sums of money to be raised for the service of the united states, and to appropriate and apply the same for defraying the public expences to borrow money, or emit bills on the credit of the united states, transmitting every half year to the respective states an account of the sums of money so borrowed or emitted, -- to build and equip a navy -- to agree upon the number of land forces, and to make requisitions from each state for its quota, in proportion to the number of white inhabitants in such state; which requisition shall be binding, and thereupon the legislature of each state shall appoint the regimental officers, raise the men and cloth, arm and equip them in a soldier like manner, at the expence of the united states; and the officers and men so cloathed, armed and quipped shall march to the place appointed, and within the time agreed on by the united states in congress assembled: But if the united states in congress assembled shall, on consideration of circumstances judge proper that any state should not raise men, or should raise a smaller number than its quota, and that any other state should raise a greater number of men than the quota thereof, such extra number shall be raised, officered, cloathed, armed and equipped in the same manner as the quota of such state, unless the legislature of such sta te shall judge that such extra number cannot be safely spared out of the same, in which case they shall raise officer, cloath, arm and equip as many of such extra number as they judge can be safely spared. And the officers and men so cloathed, armed and equipped, shall march to the place appointed, and within the time agreed on by the united states in congress assembled. The united states in congress assembled shall never engage in a war, nor grant letters of marque and reprisal in time of peace, nor enter into any treaties or alliances, nor coin money, nor regulate the value thereof, nor ascertain the sums and expences necessary for the defence and welfare of the united states, or any of them, nor emit bills, nor borrow money on the credit of the united states, nor appropriate money, nor agree upon the number of vessels of war, to be built or purchased, or the number of land or sea forces to be raised, nor appoint a commander in chief of the army or navy, unless nine states assent to the same: nor shall a question on any other point, except for adjourning from day to day be determined, unless by the votes of a majority of the united states in congress assembled. The congress of the united states shall have power to adjourn to any time within the year, and to any place within the united states, so that no period of adjournment be for a longer duration than the space of six Months, and shall publish the Journal of their proceedings monthly, except such parts thereof relating to treaties, alliances or military operations, as in their judgment require secrecy; and the yeas and nays of the delegates of each state on any question shall be entered on the Journal, when it is desired by any delegate; and the delegates of a state, or any of them, at his or their request shall be furnished with a transcript of the said Journal, except such parts as are above excepted, to lay before the legislatures of the several states. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Article X. The committee of the states, or any nine of them, shall be authorized to execute, in the recess of congress, such of the powers of congress as the united states in congress assembled, by the consent of nine states, shall from time to time think expedient to vest them with; provided that no power be delegated to the said committee, for the exercise of which, by the articles of confederation, the voice of nine states in the congress of the united states assembled is requisite. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Article XI. Canada acceding to this confederation, and joining in the measures of the united states, shall be admitted into, and entitled to all the advantages of this union: but no other colony shall be admitted into the same, unless such admission be agreed to by nine states. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Article XII. All bills of credit emitted, monies borrowed and debts contracted by, or under the authority of congress, before the assembling of the united states, in pursuance of the present confederation, shall be deemed and considered as a charge against the united states, for payment and satisfaction whereof the said united states, and the public faith are hereby solemnly pledged. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Article XIII. Every state shall abide by the determinations of the united states in congress assembled, on all questions which by this confederation are submitted to them. And the Articles of this confederation shall be inviolably observed by every state, and the union shall be perpetual; nor shall any alteration at any time hereafter be made in any of them; unless such alteration be agreed to in a congress of the united states, and be afterwards confirmed by the legislatures of every state. And Whereas it hath pleased the Great Governor of the World to incline the hearts of the legislatures we respectively represent in congress, to approve of, and to authorize us to ratify the said articles of confederation and perpetual union. Know Ye that we the undersigned delegates, by virtue of the power and authority to us given for that pur pose, do by these presents, in the name and in behalf of our respective constituents, fully and entirely ratify and confirm each and every of the said articles of confederation and perpetual union, and all and singular the matters and things therein contained: And we do further solemnly plight and engage the faith of our respective constituents, that they shall abide by the determinations of the united states in congress assembled, on all questions, which by the said confederation are submitted to them. And that the articles thereof shall be inviolably observed by the states we respectively represent, and that the union shall be perpetual. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In Witness whereof we have hereunto set our hands in Congress. Done at Philadelphia in the state of Pennsylvania the ninth day of July in the Year of our Lord one Thousand seven Hundred and Seventy-eight, and in the third year of the independence of America. On the part of & behalf of the State of New Hampshire: Josiah Bartlett John Wentworth. Junr; August 8th, 1778 On the part and behalf of the State of Rhode-Island and Providence Plantations: William Ellery Henry Marchant John Collins On the part and behalf of the State of New York: Jas Duane Fra: Lewis Wm Duer Gouvr Morris On the part and behalf of the State of Pennsylvania: Robert Morris Daniel Roberdeau Jon. Bayard Smith William Clingar Joseph Reed; 22d July, 1778 On the part and behalf of the State of Maryland: John Hanson; March 1, 1781 Daniel Carroll, do. On the part and behalf of the State of North Carolina: John Penn; July 21st, 1778 Corns Harnett Jno Williams On the part and behalf of the State of Georgia: Jno Walton; 24th July, 1778 Edwd Telfair Edwd Langworthy On the part of & behalf of the State of Massachusetts Bay: John Hancock Samuel Adams Elbridge Gerry Francis Dana James Lovell Samuel Holten On the part and behalf of the State of Connecticut: Roger Sherman Samuel Huntington Oliver Wolcott Titus Hosmer Andrew Adams On the Part and in Behalf of the State of New Jersey, November 26th, 1778: Jno Witherspoon Nathl Scudder On the part and behalf of the State of Delaware: Thos McKean; Febr 22d, 1779 John Dickinson; May 5th, 1779 Nicholas Van Dyke On the part and behalf of the State of Virginia: Richard Henry Lee John Banister Thomas Adams Jno Harvie Francis Lightfoot Lee On the part and behalf of the State of South Carolina: Henry Laurens William Henry Drayton Jno Mathews Richd Hutson Thos Heyward, junr. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thank you to Tom Kindig for the electronic text of this document -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- DOCUMENTS OF FREEDOM The Letter of Columbus to Luis De Sant Angel Announcing His Discovery The Mayflower Compact The Declaration of Independence Articles of Confederation Constitution of the United States Bill of Rights and Later Amendments Washington's Farewell Address The Monroe Doctrine The Star Spangled Banner The Gettysburg Address The American's Creed The Pledge of Allegiance -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ushistory.org home Copyright © 1995-2005 by the Independence Hall Association "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

The Navajo Indian viewed it as a sun symbol. It was also used in ancient Troy and Myaceane culture as a good luck symbol. It first reached Germany in the 1870's or so when a German archeoligist brought it back after a dig somewhere in the middle east. What is shameful is how some ( Nazi's, KKK) take a symbol and twist it into something that represents evil intent. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

I have the Stars and Bars tattooed on my arm and I am not a racist. My ancestors fought for the Confederacy. The intent to leave thw Union was all about restoring power back to the States and taking that power from the Federal Government. So many people only hear about slavery when anything of the South is discussed. Little known fact is that slave holding companies were mostly in the North whom sold to the South (a great number of Northerners also held slaves). Little known fact is that Jefferson Davis wished to abolish slavery in the South. His intent was to intergrate them into society through educating them first. The emancipation did more harm than good. After the slaves were "freed" they faced more problems as very few in the North actually gave a damn about them. True, he also held slaves whom he considered employees. His own slaves were payed the same has anyone else. He also educated his employees and gave them land. They were also free to leave anytime they wished. Little known fact is that the KKK ( ya want to outlaw something, outlaw these fuckheads) did not start waving the Stars and Bars untill the 1960's. Up untill then they waved (and still do) the American flag. I am not at all ashamed that my forefathers fought for the South. There are some folks here in Missouri (the 13th star on the Stars and Bars, St. Andrews Cross) whom wish to outlaw my flag and keep me from flying it. Drive around here and you will find the Stars and Bars flying proudly in a great number of yards. Along side it you will also find my other flag, the Stars and Stripes. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

Lisa, if you still do not understand then I strongly recommend that you re-read Mr. Keatings essay again and take the time to reflect on what he is saying. It is the meaning behind the flag that needs protection. Not the flag itself. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young