Kennedy

OK, that's one (terrible) incident. What about the other nine hundred or so? Anecdotes, no matter how emotional, don't beat statistics. witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

Well, she is my girlfriend, and I do like guns, but I don't see how that has any bearing on the situation. witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

What makes you think the people dying in firearms accidents aren't the firearms owners? If the people getting planted are not the people using the guns, then your objection stands and we really have something to look at. However, my understanding is that the people geting hurt are the participants (which makes John's analogy worth considering). witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

You eat fried strawberry ice cream? witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

Group A: Jefferson, Madison, Franklin (HM to Washington and Adams) Group B: Joe Foss, Pat Tillman (HM to Audie Murphy) Group C: Samuel Langhorne Clemens, Einstein, Group D: MLK Jr, Charlton Heston Absolutely positively have no chance whatsoever of ever being on my list? FDR W. Wilson Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, Kwasi Mfume witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

I find it funny how often you'll hear people talk about how carsshould be handled with care yet how frequent they are handled carelessly. I find it funny how often you'll hear people talk about how electric power should be handled with care yet how frequent it is handled carelessly. I find it funny how often you'll hear people talk about how anything powered by oil or natural gas should be handled with care yet how frequent it is handled carelessly. I find it funny how often you'll hear people talk about how anything powered by oil or natural gas should be handled with care yet how frequent it is handled carelessly. etc, etc, etc. Your point? Most people use things safely and say so. Some people can't or won't sue things safely. Does one person's misuse condemn tens of thousands to be automaticall inept and unsafe? witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

OK, one more time. "Guns are dangerous when not used properly." Just like cars. Just like pools. Just like buckets. Just like hammers. Just like everything else. Just like information. (do you want government regulation for possessing information, too?) witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

I generally find it to be good practice to at least meet a person before throwing out absurd psychological diagnoses. witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

OK, so when you fail to provide useful input and are called on it, you say you just want to kill a stupid thread. You then repeatedly attack gun owners while claiming not to have anything against gun ownership. You post the same tripe from slightly different angles and get shot down over and over. You fail to disprove or effective argue a single logical point, so you decide you are now king of the thread and will reframe to debate, to completely remove all clarity and chance of progress. Boy, you're lots of fun to debate, kallend. (like Dave, I hope you read papers a lot more closely than you read posts) and yet for some reason it's so much fun to prove you wrong You've posted links to shrill little websites bent on ad hominem attacks because they couldn't attack his work. Maybe you've forgotten, but Lott's work included every county of every state in the country for several years. All prior work included a few counties, or only one, and for different blocks on time, not concurrent time frames. Somehow a man who includes all the data from all the source is cherry picking, while "researchers" who choose one or two sources from particular times, but come to anti-gun conclusions, are to be considered reliable? You've also come out against Kleck and Gertz (their joint studies and solo work), but you haven't provided anything to discredit them personally or scientifically. I don't know about everyone else here, but I take the word of a professor who won the Hindelang Award over a physicist who won an excellence-in-teaching award when we're discussing firearms and crime. edit: if the firearms debate ever goes from gun control to which powder will affect which bullet differently, then I'll take your word over Kleck's. Until then, well, I'm having fun. witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

http://www.dcnewspress.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=14199119&BRD=1585&PAG=461&dept_id=213470&rfi=6 http://biz.yahoo.com/law/050322/973e600c002a4ee46b7484e3f26aa24a_1.html This one really toasted my ass. I suppose it'd be too much trouble for a supreme court justice to know more about precedent than me? On the lighter side, I guess this guy has never watched '60 Minutes' before. http://www.dcnewspress.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=14199035&BRD=1585&PAG=461&dept_id=213470&rfi=6 edit: I left out that the High Court is only deciding whether or not she can sue, not whether or not she will win. witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

...not to mention the idea that hiding information is better than education or the entire concept of her unilateraly deciding for every user of the library present and future what books they'll be allowed to read. Boy I just love that open-minded liberalism, don't you? Truly sad. witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

OK, as I recall, this thread is about accidents involving firearms, not crimes. In that view, using your happy little relativity, swimming pools are a great deal more dangerous than firearms. I could also opint out that firearms accidents are declining, while other types of accidents are not. Your views have changed so many times that I really see no reason to argue with you any further, since even if I did somehow manage to change your mind, you'd change it again in a few mintes anyway. Why bother? (yeah, I could've mentioned bridges for suicides and sewers for ditching evidence, and the value of the god done with firearms as compared to the bad, but like I said, why bother?) ps - until you actually answer some of the difficult questions I ask you, I'm going to leave your silly repetative questions to be fielded by others. witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

http://www.dailyrecord.com/news/articles/news3-Gunbook.htm More "it takes a village" drivel. More "I know what's best for you whether you like it or not." More willingness to break the law to impose their ridiculous ideas on others. More and more disgusting. witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

Rage, Linkin park, anything really angry for a work. To get me up or get me good for driving I like country, old rock, or something upbeat. witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

Anything in food service. I'm never doing anything in food service ever again. witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

Weren't we talking about accidents before you began actively trying to kill this thread? What's the matter? Can't handle a logical discussion, so you get quiet for a few days and then try similarly useless posts from another tack? (go ahead, tell me again how you don't oppose gun ownership) Generally speaking, they do it far more often than gun owners when you consider injuries per participant. Same with drivers. And pool owners. And bath tub users. (nice touch mixing intentional crimes with accidents; good way to muddle the debate further) witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

Geez, rub it in why don't you... witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

Mr. Brann, Mr. Barnett, well put, and thanks for saving me the trouble of typing it myself. witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

Many departments require a four year. They tend to be small cities and very large towns. They are the places with enough budget to be selective, and a small enough body requirement to be selective. Other departments require only a HS diploma or GED. Also, while you may look on two year degrees as low education, there's a reason the majority of the population calls it "higher education" when you go to college. Yes, there are higher degrees, and yes there are programs that some people find more difficult. "People in academia" tend to live in another world. You should know that, you're still going for your degree. Remember, in the real world, low education is highschool or less. Besides, since when does having a piece of paper on the wall mean you'll be aable to handle difficult, fluid situations in teh best way? I'll have the links in a little while. witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

If you listened to anti-gun people, then yes, you'd think all those things are the case here in the US. However, thank God, they are not true here, either. Crimes are decreasing, even our terribly high murder rate is dropping (faster in many pro-gun states than anti-gun states), there aren't any wild west shoot-outs, and things are generally improving. (except for government interfering in more aspects of life) Unfortunately, you do hear shrill voices every now and then with the "think of the children" line of BS. witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

If you think that was anything other than a sarcastic bit of humor, you obviously don't understand me!! to sum up why I think it's a bunch of BS... Guns can only make the situation worse! If that's true, why do police and bodyguards carry guns? (other possible answer: Did Joel Myrick make the situation worse?) There'll be blood in the streets! I love these wild west worries, and how the fortune tellers never admit they were wrong when the prediction never come true, time after time. Oh, won't someone please think of the children Ah, the ultimate "I have no argument but won't conceed defeat" line. (other possible answer: Joel Myrick was thinking of the children) witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

A check plus and a gold star for John. That's right folks, the police have no legal duty to protect you. Their responsibility is to "the community at large." In many jurisdictions, even if they witness a felony in progress, they have no requirements to stop and help (a la the King riots in LA). Yes, this is why I laugh every time the anti-gun forces tell us how the police are there to protect us, and we don't need our own guns. witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

but... but... that can't be right! Guns can only mke the situation worse! There'll be blood in the streets! Oh, won't someone please think of the children... witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

Well, since even professionals can't be trusted, we should ban all guns because no one can be trusted, right? You go ahead and suggest the military and cops should give up all their guns. I'll be right behind you. Let's see, professor, weren't you the one talking about relative dangers? Let's say there are a thousand accidental guns deaths every year in the USA. There are over 80,000,000 gun owners in the USA. That translates into 0.0000125 deaths per gun owner. I'd say that's pretty damned safe. Am I wrong? Is that a very high number compared to other groups? Care to campare numbers with skydiviers, or car drivers? I guess we're not that dangerous afterall, eh prof? eidt: I noticed you didn't reply to my post in the DEA thread, where this argument started. (reference post #128) witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

Anyone with the IQ of a vegetable and no training can get a car. Anyone with the IQ of a vegetable and no training can get a pool. Anyone with the IQ of a vegetable and no training can get a ladder. Apparently, you don't have a problem with guns, you have a problem with personal freedom. I suppose you would like people to have to ask the government for permission to do anything. Well, here in the USA we disagree. I know your English is superior to my spanish, as I never even studied the language and remembe very little from growing up with a spanish-speaking grandmother. Your english is better than my German as well, even though I have studied that. (call it the curse of being american, I don't know, languages were never stressed and are very hard to learn after adolensence). However, what truly annoys me is your logic, or lack thereof, when you disagree about guns and or freedom. I make smartassed comments because I know you can understand but apparently choose not to. That infuriates me when I come to a discussion and I'm the only one listening but two people are talking. That's nice. I suppose dying by some manner ther than guns is preferably. Would you rather be stabbed, as in Japan, or bludgeoned, as in the UK? Yes, we have a lot of gun murders. So what? A: guns save more lives than they take. B: murders with weapons other than guns are still murders. C: Japan has a huge number of murders by sword compared to the US; does that mean swords must be banned and then doled out by the Japanese government? Italy has a huge number of stranglings compared to the US; does that mean ropes, belts, and wires should be banned and licensed? I think it largely comes down to the fact that I have faith in the human race while you do not. I also realize that there will always be a small number of people who cannot abide by laws or live social lives, where you seem to think everyone will behave if the government tells them to. I suppose it comes down to our complete worldviews being entirely different, so we will never agree. I do have one suggestion, however. You don't suggest change to US domestic policies and I won't bother Spanish home policies. Why can't you understand that criminals and people intent on crimes don't follow the laws, and don't go through licensing programs? Anytime you suggest a law to make it harder to own guns, you have to get it through your head that it will only affect people who aren't criminals. Criminals will always have a black market to turn to. If you ever figure out a plan to shut down a black market, please, let me know. Countries across the globe could use it. That distubed child stole the gun from a police officer. What's your solution, don't let cops have guns? Also, that boy showed dozens of warning signs that were never recognized. He was a perfect case for social intervention. Read the thread about it (skip the gun arguments, and focus on posts that show how whacked out he was). The boy didn't go though legal channels to get teh gun. He didn't buy it at a gun store. He stole it from a cop. How would licensing regular citizens, or making ownership more difficult, have stopped that? On the other hand, I can describe to you in great detail how one school employee with a gun could have stopped the carnage. Look up the story of Joel Myrick. witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*