Kennedy

witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

Well, the welfare system would seriously slow the replacement of the labor. Now, if we implemented a "workfare" system a la the TVA, there would be very little if any drop in work --> production --> GNP. Absolutely. Due to the monetary cost, the political and block vote opposition, and manpower requirement it's not feasible without serious changes. However, it could be done without causing any doomsday repercussions. witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

I noticed the same idiocy/lack of logic/inability to read my first time through, but I thought I'd let someone else point it out. I wonder if he thinks people don't want freedom of the press because the number of newspapers sold is a small fraction of the population. witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

Nebraska Article http://www.omaha.com/index.php?u_pg=1638&u_sid=1374511 That's right, Nebraska, one of only four states left that doesn't have a concealed carry system, now has a serious concealed carry bill in its legislature. witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

Ohio Article http://news.cincypost.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050409/NEWS01/504090342 witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

If you understand the meaning of a militia, then you understand that it is meant to provide more infantry men. It is not meant to include an entire second army navy and air force. It is meant to provide more meat for the grinder when all else fails. Where I draw the line is where the founding fathers did, in their writing and their later explanations. You cannot change the meaning of the written word simply because you choose to chnge the definition to suit your needs. This is incorrect, and fostered by some a number of misunderstandings. The constitution recognizes the rights of free men. When convicted or indicted some rights are put on hold or revoked while others come into play to protect the accused/convicted. No one is giving it much attention? Haven't you heard the furor over Gitmo? the masses of people opposed to confiscation wihtout due process? and all the other infractions of civil liberties? Gun rights is just the topic of this thread. None of the others are being ignored, and none are more or less important than this. Maybe I didn't make myself clear that I don't use the second amendment to further tha cause of concealed carry, even though that argument can be easily made. Would you call "keep and bear arms" not related to the idea of owning and carrying firearms? Once again, the militia clause of the second amendment is a subordinate clause. It is one reason for the right. It is not the only reason. I use the militia clause to explain to people the types of firearms clearly covered by the second amendment. However, militia service is not the only reason for the right, and not the only protected use of arms under the constitution. witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

No, I'm talking "missiles in Cuba" level of evidence, not "see that fuzzy blip, that's a chemical plant, and that splotch, that's a stockpile" level. But yes, I'd launch in retaliation. Afterall, if I'm in a command-decision position, I've got a well stocked bunker somewhere. witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

You're both right. I wouldn't push the button first, or even mention using nukes to other countries, but if anyone started launching, you're damn right you'd see some "rocket's red glare." witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

Do I strike you as someone who will ever go quietly into that good night? Seriously, if I were in a "give the order" position, yes, I'd launch if someone else launched at the USA. (you kinda have to say that - deterence only works if you both fear each other. you know, that whole mutually assured destruction thing) witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

Apparently he doesn't believe me that US Code Title 10, Subtitle A, Chapter 13, § 311 exists. Or maybe I should say he doesn't believe Cornell Law. witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

Real time warning that they've pushed the button and are in the process of launching, yes, I'd support a strike. Other than that, leave the armageddon button alone. witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

Should illegals be allowed to enter the country, yes or no? Has there been/ is there continuing work to prevent visas for terrorists, yes or no? witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

As to how well funcitoning the militia is/could be right now, well, write your congressman. They're in charge of steering that ship. Personally I wouldn't mind if a few things were required of the populace right now. Most of them could use a good swift kick in the pants. -------- Unorganized merely refers to the fact that they aren't the National Guard and aren't being called up at the moment. It doesn't mean disorganized. What does the fact that they haven't been called up have to do with how well they'd function? We should all be thankful that the militia hasn't been called since the 1860s. Also, though I don't know the details, most (all?) states do have standards and practices to either name or maintain militia officers. It's just not the same everywhere as it was in 1780s Virginia, as skydekker apparently wants it to be. witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

I didn't pick and choose what to apply. I didn't apply any of it to today. I quoted that to clearly show original intent. The requirement for a man to provide himself and his arms if called is still part of the federal law today. http://www.saf.org/LawReviews/Fafarman1.html Congress still controls the militia, and congress still supports a self armed militia, as seen by the Civilian Marksmanship Program and support of the National Matches. The law no longer clearly requires every man to own firearms, but if called a man is still expected to provide himself and his arms. Remember, Jefferson was commenting on Virginia law and militia, not federal law. Here in the US, there is a distinct difference. Again, your conclusion is completely wrong. A basic understand of the english language shows the militia clause of the second amendment is the subordinate clause. It is one reason, not the only reason. As explained above, the characteristics of the state militia in the 1780s do not have to be the same characteristics for a militia today. A simple search or browse through the US Code would tell you that. You would find Title 10, Subtitle A, Chapter 13, § 311. witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

No. That's where she keeps the hamster pants. The crossbow is on the shelf with her shrine to Ernest Borgnine and her parsley collection. No, no, no[/]b, messican, that's not it. It's over in the corner near the spontoon. witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

No way! Clay got laid by someone who uses money rather than barters in wool... WAY TO GO, SHAGGER!!! (I'm allowed to give Clay extra shit, he still never video'd my jump like he promised) / witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

I think they already passed that when they made assault, battery, murder, etc illegal. Also, the SCUS is currently deciding just how far the government has to go to enforce its laws, and what liabilities it might have. Really Bill, I rephrased quartering of soldiers to say the same thing, and you removed anything respecting gun rights and made up some nanny-state amendment. Not exactly the same meaning, now is it? You're right, and gun rights can also find constitutional support at the state level when one combines the militia clauses and the supremacy clause. However, the second amendment does say a few thigns very clearly, and I wanted to see if anyone could reasonably differ from my interpretation. No one has done so for the gun control side. witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

There, is the indirect fashion more to your liking? ps - your use of proscribe comes across ackwardly. Wouldn't something along the lines of "proscribes the government from..." be more correct? http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=proscribe witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

Not only is your overall statement illogical, none of the single connections are true. Not true. Not only does that one attribute of a militia not have to still be true today, it was not true in every state (colony) in the 1780s. Wrong. The militia is composed of every able-bodied free man aged 18-45, I believe. The US code refers to these men as the unorganized militia. Just because they haven't been called up and don't have standing officers, that doesn't mean the millitia doesn't exist. Riiiiiiiiiiight, the founding fathers created an amendment which doesn't recognize a right. Sure. You go ahead and stick with that one. Finally, I'm still waiting for an answer to a simple question. witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

"Cappn 'n Coke" is my most common non-beer order at the bar. Man, it's addictive. Also, for those of us whose significant others (or one night stands, or whatever) don't like liquor, every girl like rum and coke second hand. witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

who are the county lieutenants? I can give you a full history and commentary concerning the miltia circa 1790 and how things have changed since then (you were reading Jefferson's "state of the state" in Virginia). First, I'd like an answer to my question, if that's not too difficult. witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

Don't bother taking him seriously. He likes throwing out his snide little comments, but everyone knows he's smart enough to realize that sociology and criminoloy are not as neat and tidy as collegfe level physics, and that there are too many variable to list that can affect crime rate. To this I expect him to ask how then I can support the conclusion that CCW laws have reduced crime. I'll not go into the strengths and superior quality of John Lotts work again, or its relation to Kleck and Gertz, but I will simply say it has been shown that CCW reduces crime. It's not the only thing that can reduce crime, but it does reduce crime. (other things that reduce crime are strict enforcement, harsh sentences, cooperation at local state and federal levels, the number of young males in the area, and so on) witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

Can I take that to mean you have no sinificant objection to my interpretation of the second amendment? (I don't think I mentioned rebellion in this thread, but either way I'd like an answer before we hop back on that merry-go-round as well) witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

Why is asking for responsible gun ownership "intrusive"? Can I take that to mean you have no sinificant objection to my interpretation of the second amendment? (we've had the "intrusive argument before, but I'd like an answer before we get on the merry-go-round again) witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

Let's argree to both be right. http://dictionary.reference.com/search?db=mwlaw&q=force one of wikipedia's more lacking articles: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deadly_force Maybe I'll write up an addition. witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*