Kennedy

witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

Hey, it does look badly play acted, but anyone who expects things to look like the movies has obviously spent too much time in front of a screen. It could be fake, but I'm not going to say I think it is. If ti was acted, it was done poorly. If it was real, good for the shooter and I hope the law (and lawsuits) come down in his favor. There are a few points to make me think it might not be real: - the muzzle flashes don't look right (I've seen security footage of real events) odd, but hardly proves lack of authenticity - the clerk seems to go from "take that MFer" to "oh shit what just happened" a little too quickly possible, but it just seems wrong - he seems to give a "what now, MoFo" to the shooter before the third shot. Most buglars have enough survival instinct to sit still and shut up after being hit twice when a guy with a gun is standing over them, not reach for it again. (reaching didn't work last time, now did it?) All in all, might be real, might not, and DILLIGAF? witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

OK, enough of that lovey-dovey. Let's get this thread back to it's intended purpose: bashing the ACLU. Jimbo's Article and so on... INVASION USA ACLU smoking dope at border? Minutemen say photos show 'legal observers' getting high and so forth... INVASION USA ACLU aiding illegal entry into U.S.? Minuteman spokesman charges group with criminal activity etc... INVASION USA Minuteman Project expanding to 4 states Civilian monitors will also target employers that hire illegal aliens witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

You forgot about that idiot with the shoe on the plane, ole whats-his-name. Stick em all in the "cell block for forgotten fuckwits who still don't matter." witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

He very much placed them under citizen's arrest. He witnessed them commiting a felony (as far as he could tell) and so the situation would be a citizen's arrest. Everything still hinges on whether the draw was justified or not. If a jury says it was, everything else is righteous. If a jury decides it wasn't, everythign that followed could be found justifiable, but honestly any jury that convicts of assault would covinct him of everything short of satansim and terrorism. If you want to talk about detaining someone in a way that citizens have no legal powers to do so, imagine that he had pointed his gun at the passerby and ordered that man to stay as a witness. THEN you'd see charges stemming from an illegal detention. witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

In the US, LEOs can detain people for quesitoning before putting them under arrest. They can also detain people who are not suspects in a crime (material witness, waiting for ID, a traffic stop, etc). Citizens, as I understand it, can only arrest people. There is no "detention" powers for the public. You either arrest them or let them go. I also doubt your police force can only arrest people or let them go. When you really get into the law, police have the power to hold people without arresting them. witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

How was he wrong? What was irresponsible? Why do you think he "emotionally lost it?" What went way too far? Your post is very vague. Very damning, but where are the specifics? Was he wrong for being there? Was he wrong for drawing his firearm? Was he wrong for pointing it at them? Was he wrong for ordering them out of the car? Was he wrong because he was white? Tell me what's on your mind and we can discuss something. As it is, the only way I can refute your post is to say "No he wasn't." witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

It getting bad, isn't it? I can't remember where, or what the frame of reference was, but I distinctly remember a newspaper article that called seven guns a a few hundred rounds of ammunition an "arsenal." I mean really, the guy had an old german mauser, a cmp garand, some snubbie revolver, an O/U duck gun, an 870 or 500 pump gun, a bolt action (sniper rifle of course) and one other unspecified handgun. Some arsenal. Jiminy Crickets and for shit's sake, that's not a lot of guns. He didn't een have a plastic gun for metal detectors, or an assault wepaon for killing cops, or a saturday night special for murdering neighbors, or a.... Stupid anti's definitions. And a few hundred rounds? Come on!!! I know people with five digits, and read constantly about people with six figures worth of ammo (in numbers and dollars) witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

I agree. So what makes you so sure that the men in the video didn't have information you and I don't, or hadn't already checked? Why assume the worst of people? Gee, thanks dude, i was wondering who would be the first poster in this thread to bring up my spelling in the english language. Note to self: do not forget to write the post in spanish as well so kennedy doesn´t get lost in the spelling and grammar. Hey, sorry if it pushes a touchy button with you, but I was trying to help. When I get up the guts to post or speak in German, I thank people who help me with my grammar, pronounciation, etc. You'll also notice that I put the spelling at the end, and in no way tied it to the value of your post. Well fuck me for trying to help. It is true, after all, that no good deed goes unpunished. witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

Remember people, he's not on trial for getaining the illegals. He is on trial for threatening them. There aren't any kidnapping charges. He's facing seven aggragavted assault charges, nothing else at the moment. That said, Ron, you know as well as I do that he only has to justify the draw when he did it,not before or after. Personally, if I were at a rest stop letting my dog(s) piss, and seven figures came rushing out of the bushes at me (in a concealed cary state), I might draw as well. That said, once you have drawn, you do not immediately have to put it away just because the felon has started to obey or retreat. Let's keep in mnind that he used no force and never harmed them. Yes, detaining them is quesitonable, but not illegal. As much as some want to slander his name, and as much as they oviously want to string him up to get at a group he's not even a menber of, he's not even charged with holding them illegally. Final note - it surprises me to see so many people who dont like, or even hate cops suddenly want them to handle everything and want everyone else to sit there like a bump on a log. Everyone who complains about cops on power trips, about LEO abuses of power, suddently thinks LEOs are the only answer to a problem. (obviously Ron is very pro law enforcement and not included in my "final note") witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

(A) Thank her for me. (B) If she has a solid grasp of departmental policies (and I have no reason to believe otherwise), then I really am surprised and need to dive into this one. I'm not sure I see the distinction in this case. For cops there is a difference between detaining a persona ndn arresting them, though it can abe a fuzzy, winding line. For citizens though, the only detention powers are basiclly a citizne's arrest. Anything that falls outside the scope of a legal citizen's arrest would not justify detention. For a US citizen, if it doesn't justify a citizen's arrest, you can't detain them for any other reason. (hope that came across more clearly) witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

Mr. Haab was never a volunteer for the MinuteMen. He was a guy on a roadtrip who stopped to let his dog piss. Do you happen to have any proof of that, or have we given up completely on the idea of "innocent until proven guilty." (save the smart-assed Patriot Act comments, bill) witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

there anyway to save the file for those poor souls on dial-up? There isn't a chance in hell I could watch it streaming. witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

So, being the great expert in the room, are you saying that anyone not currently holding a weapon is an innocent and shouldn't be touched? ps - fyi - it is"says" in English, not "sais" and "massacring" not masacrating witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

Intolerance for anyone who doesn't believe as he does? A slight fascist bent? ....nope, can't post that personal attack as mucha s I'd like to.... He's one of those "I'm enlightened so if you don't think exactly like I do you're a sheep/slave/idiot/etc" guys witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

UPDATE: Well, I don't know about anyone else, but I'd say the man's been vindicated. HE's got a long term restraining order against their whole family while they couldn't get one against him. He's not under threat of indictment anymore. His homeowner's insurance isn't paying out a dime. (of course, I think they're all insane to keep living there, but hey, since when does anyone want to listen to a 20something cracker from the burbs?) http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2005/04/16/BAG0PC9SOK1.DTL witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

(A) I see nothing wrong with citizens detaining criminals for police. It happens all the time with break-ins and other contact crime. http://www.fox11az.com/news/state/stories/041605ccjrktvkhaab.1e5e11f93.html As much sa I repect Arpaio's tough stances on criminals, he's showing that disturbings "I'm a cop so I know everything" trait. He didn't point out any contradictions; instead all he did was lay down some bullshit "always use me" rule (a sure sign it shouldnt be followed), and called the man a liar. He never dragged anyone out - he ordered them out. distinction: he never used violence or force, only threatened it. He didn't detain them because they looked Mexican, he detained them because he believes they assaulted him. distinction: one is vigilantism and racist, the other is continuing self defense and a bit of doing the cops' job for them. Good cops appreciate it when a criminal is handed to them on a silver platter with no harm done. Bad cops (the ones with serious no-one-is-as-good-as-me syndrome) only see it as a threat and denounce it without looking at the facts. Arpaio is placing himself squarely in the "I'm the only one that can handle this, sit back you mere civilians," and "I'm from the government, I'm here to help" category. See my comment on "always do this" rules. There are only four things that should always be done in an armed self defense scenario. Everything else is a maybe. witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

Big arms, blue uniform, a nifty helmet, and automatic weapons do not a safe (or competant) shooter make... http://www.headsbunker.com/html/2005/04/from-only-cops-should-have-guns.html "scuse me, Mr. Policeman..." On another note, has anyone else noticed that the definition of "arsenal" is still shrinking? witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

How many significant figures? witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

If you really want to make a difference, that wall is going to have to cover a bit more a DC and a whole chunk of PG County as well. witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

Think moonshine... and then add cars You left out inbreeding. witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

Rule #1 of newsreel footage: "What it looks like" and "what it is" are often two very different things. Start with realtv and work your way up and out of the "news" cesspool from there. witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

If I remember correctly, the Netherlands has around 50,000 officers split between a national branch and regional branches. It would surprise me a great deal if you could confirm that they teach that many officers to use "wounding shots" rather than "shooting to stop." (obviously no one teaches street officers to "shoot to kill") Where'd you hear about the dutch policy? Do you know an officer from the Netherlands, or have some other direct source? I don't mean to doubt you, but it just really surprises me that any agency would do that. (the general consensus being that if you are calm enough and have enough time for a wounding shot, then you really don't need to shoot) witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

So so called atackers will be judge based on the level of paranoia of the so called victim. Does that constitute a reasonable fear to you? witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

If that is true, that puts the whole case to bed. The rest of the arguments really don't matter anymore. Until shown a statute staing otherwise, I don't believe Arizona prohibits firearms ownership based on a citizen's taking anti-depressant medication. That didn't come out the way I wanted it to. If the prosecutor was crusading against illegals instead of for them, the seven could easily have been charged with assault. It wouldn't be hard to argue that seven men coming out of the bushes, rushing at a man, and attempting to flee afterwards was assault. Honestly, that's the worst possible interpretation on the intentions of the illegals, but what is the prosecutor arguing other than the worst possible interpretation of Mr. Haab's intentions? The legal snafu is that if his fear of GBH was reasonable, then the illegals did something to make him have that reasonable fear, That is simple assault. Theoretically, yes. In reality, I can't imagine getting twelve people that dumb, even on a jury. The simple explanation of assault is that you don't have to intend to cause someone reasonable fear, you just have to do something to cause it. Where? What agency? If you mean snipers, that's a whole other story - we're talking guys with handguns at street level. (also, popular reality tv clip aside, most agencies have moved away from even snipers using wounding or disarming shots, as there have been horrible consequences) witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*