Lindsey

WOW! That's cool. We're not so progressive here...lol. Who'da thunk? My father was once charged (but just with a misdemeanor) for letting my then-15-y/o step sister have a sip of his drink at the horse races. They didn't take her away from him, though I bet he was hoping they would.... -- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

Let our children and grandchildren figure it out. That's why we send 'em to school. Fuck 'em if they can't take a joke.... -- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

SchWEET! :) linz -- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

I would double check that if I were you. I'm not saying it makes sense, but my understanding of US law makes it's illegal, even at home, in private. Yep...you can be arrested, and your children can be taken from you if you give them alcohol in the privacy of your own home. -- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

OK, at what rate do poor girls with no health insurance get PAPs done? You might be surprised. Poor children, at least in Arkansas, are usually insured either with Medicaid or with AR Kids First (a private insurance subsidized by the state for poor children who aren't quite poor enough for Medicaid). I do a whole heckuva lot of pap smears on these kids. There are a lot of people who end up getting paps because they come in with other STDs and we do a pap as part of that exam. I think the people who would be most at risk of not getting regular paps are the kids who are sexually active but whose sexual activity doesn't leave them with a new std a few times a year, and I don't think that group can be so easily defined by socioeconomic status. linz -- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

Obviously that 1% doesn't matter, they're probably poor and minority anyway. Wealthy Caucasian girls would never have unprotected sex or miss their annual GYN exam. One consideration that I've heard batted around is the concern that this particular vaccination could in the long run lead to MORE deaths from cervical cancer rather than fewer. You can see right here in this thread that lots of people consider this vaccine to be more protective than it is. It's only protective against 4 strains of HPV that cause 80% of cervical cancers. Dysplasia of the cervix is very, very, very common. These are very often caught on pap smears, and these women are followed. Monitoring and treating dysplasia is what keeps women from dying of cervical cancer. If a teen or young adult feels a false sense of security because she's had her vaccine I wonder what the likelihood is that she'll come in for a pap? (And I wonder if that will in turn cause even more ovarian cancers to be missed). Also, what about when the strains that cause the other 20% of cervical cancer become more commonplace? It's likely to not take long. Are people still gonna feel protected? If they do, it will be a very false sense of security. Once folks get out of the habit of getting their paps and the strains that cause 20% are causing 80%, we're gonna be in the same situation we're in now, only with people probably not being as diligent with their yearly exams.... I think we're on the right track here, but it's not time, imho, to breathe that sigh of relief and put your 12 y/o in line for the shot. linz -- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

It's great that we have vaccines against the things we need to have vaccines against....without a doubt. I think it's good that a vaccine has been developed against some of the forms of HPV that cause cervical cancer. Believing that we're jumping the gun on mandating this vaccine for school-aged girls at this time is a far cry from being against vaccinations. linz -- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

Vaccines, like medications, are not 100% safe. Most vaccines go through years of testing before they're put on the market. Testing for Gardasil was, what, 6 months??? There have been concerns about adverse effects of several vaccines. There's MMR and autism, Yellow Fever Vaccine and several viscerotropic diseases, Meningococcal Vaccine and Guillain Barre to name a few. While this vaccine has the potential to do some good, I think we're being a little too quick to not just advocate, but mandate its use. Then what about the cost? This vaccine costs about $300 per person for the series of shots. Is this a vaccine that you think is important enough, with such a short history of use that we really haven't seen what its effects are going to be, that we should mandate it for all girls between 12 or 13 and 18? I think the original poster was right in that this sounds like a politician in bed with a drug company. I don't much like that when it's our children's health that's being played with in order to score a deal for Merck. linz -- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

I whole-heartedly agree with you that abstinence is the better way but, sometimes you need a plan-'B'. psst....I was being a little facetious with my comment about abstinence. While I don't want kids having sex, I think it's best to educate them about being safe. My comment was just a little dig at those who preach only teaching abstinence....but now are hell-bent on vaccinating all female children against an STD.... I guess my point was lost I think, the drug shoud be available. I just don't care for the idea of the governor accepting money from a drug company then, forcing their product down our throats. Me too. -- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

When (if?) an AIDS vaccine is created, will you feel the same way? If you read my first response a few posts up, I think you'll understand my thoughts. If an AIDS vaccine were only effective 80% of the time, but left people feeling that they were protected from HIV then I'd be concerned about the increased likelihood of contracting HIV due to being more relaxed about safe sex. An important difference between HIV and HPV, is that with yearly pap smears, women can avoid significant morbidity from HPV-related cervical dysplasia (that becomes cervical cancer). Unfortunately, there's no medical intervention that can cure HIV once a person has it. I'd have to consider how effective a vaccine against HIV would likely be before I gave it to a child, but since it would be (hopefully) preventing something as serious as HIV, I'd probably tend more towards giving it were it efficacious enough. -- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

Isn't abstinence what they preach when the issue of sexuality in the schools is brought up? Condom use? STDs? Teen pregnancy? Texas tends to be a conservative state.... It tends to be conservatives who preach abstinence whenever these issues come up. It just surprises me that these same folks would be ready to vaccinate all of these children who they normally say should just abstain from sex. I'd personally rather teach my daughter (if I had one) to keep herself safe rather than vaccinate her against an STD. linz -- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

I think the school probably can do decide mid-year to institute drug tests. Workplaces can. If ya' don't like it, you can find a new job. Why wouldn't a private school be able to? While I hope my child will be smart enough not to start down that path, I'd have no problem with his school having such a policy if the results were left between the school, my son, and me. Were it to become a legal issue, then I'd have a big problem with it. -- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

I'm afraid that this won't be one of those "out of sight, out of mind" situations. She's still gonna want to know what it means. Sometimes being candid is the best thing. I have a real funny story....but that'd hijack the thread. -- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

The randomness of the testing....think they'll test kids with 4.0 gpas along with the 2.0'ers? ha! ...Hey, if you can carry straight A's while constantly stoned, more power to ya! Lots of people do. Five years ago, I'd have been dead set against it. Now I'm not sure. I don't like drug tests for adults, but not a bad idea for minors, imho. We didn't have random drug tests as kids, but we did get periodic visits by the drug dog. I'll never forget Tommy Hillman's face that one day when they showed up in French class...lol. linz -- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

I wish the Republicans did this when they were in the majority. Had he done this when the Republicans were in the majority, people might have thought he was sincere.... -- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

You'd think that preaching abstinence would be enough, since it is an STD we're talking about. linz -- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

Unfortunately, this vaccine covers 4 strains of HPV (there are many others) that are the culprits in 80% of cervical cancer. It's not a vaccine that, imho, should be mandated for anyone for a few reasons. 1) people will likely feel protected from cervical cancer and not be as careful in protecting themselves--i.e. yearly pap smears. 2) As these strains of the virus become less common in causing cervical cancer, others will likely become more common. 3) Vaccines sometimes come with a cost. This one is pretty new...new enough that I'd want to see some results before I pushed it on too many people. One of the docs whom I worked under in medical school said something that I've always kept close to me: "You don't want to be the first person to start prescribing a new medication, but you also don't want to be the last." I think those are wise words. Don't jump on the bandwagon too quickly.... Cervical cancer that is caused by HPV once had a very high mortality rate. Nowadays very few people die of HPV-related cervical cancer. I think we should welcome this new vaccine, but since it's treating something that's a problem (and potentially life-threatening problem), but one that doesn't have a tremendous number of terribly-bad outcomes, I think we should proceed with at least some caution. -- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

I'm just searching for answers to very difficult questions. And they are difficult problems.... I think we're starting to make some headway, and I do believe the problems are solvable without becoming like Canada. I think that it is possible for people to become more healthy, but sometimes it takes hitting a wall to shift the tide. We're the unhealthiest we've been in a long time. I recently read in some journal or other than our children will be the first generation whose life expectancy will be shorter than their parents. Trying to keep up with that is expensive. I hope that we will be turning the corner soon.... linz -- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

Nevermind the millions of senior Americans who can, using their own money, buy their prescription drugs cheaper in Canada than they can get through Medicare here in the states. Or they can buy them cheaper ($4 per prescription) at wal-mart -- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

*1. You have to be against capital punishment, but support abortion on demand. Or that there's a place for both 2. You have to believe that businesses create oppression and governments create prosperity. Businesses create prosperity primarily for business owners. Some folks are just thankful for a job. Others wait for a handout. Even the people waiting for a handout should be given some basic necessities....no matter how distasteful we find these people. But giving away too much cripples a lot of people we really intended to help. 3. You have to believe that guns in the hands of law-abiding Americans are more of a threat than U.S. Nuclear weapons technology in the hands of Chinese and North Korean communists. 4. You have to believe that there was no art before Federal funding. There are probably a few good American artists before then, but there's nothing wrong with a little encouragement of the Arts. 5. You have to believe that global temperatures are less affected by cyclical documented changes in the earth's climate and more affected by soccer moms driving SUV's. I'm just not smart enough to know, but it's pretty foolish to be driving gas guzzlers when our oil supplies ARE limited. 6. You have to believe that gender roles are artificial but being homosexual is natural. The rigidity of gender roles is artificial. Homosexuality is a natural occurrence in the world. 7. You have to believe that the AIDS virus is spread by a lack of federal funding. HIV is spread by sex and other "swapping" of bodily fluids. Federal funding helps to educate people about how to protect themselves from HIV. It's worthwhile, imho. 8. You have to believe that the same teacher who can't teach 4th-graders how to read is somehow qualified to teach those same kids about sex. I think that a 4th-grade teacher who can't teach 4th graders how to read doesn't have any business teaching reading. BUT a teacher who knows how to teach basic human biology is qualified to teach kids about human sexual functioning. A teacher who knows how to teach Health can teach kids about health issues involved with sex. 9. You have to believe that outdoors men don't care about nature, but loony activists who have never been outside of San Francisco do. silly gay San Franciscans 10. You have to believe that self-esteem is more important than actually doing something to earn it. It's sad that you think a young child should earn self esteem. I think a lot of the things we do to protect children's self-esteem actually harms it, though. 11. You have to believe that Mel Gibson spent $25 million of his own money to make The Passion of the Christ for financial gain only. Never thought about it. I'd like to see the movie though. 12. You have to believe the NRA is bad because it supports certain parts of the Constitution, while the ACLU is good because it supports certain parts of the Constitution. I think both have their place, and both get on my nerves. 13. You have to believe that taxes are too low, but ATM fees are too high. Hah....oh my. I'd like to keep more of my money, but I'm also not too bothered by doing my part.... 14. You have to believe that Margaret Sanger and Gloria Steinem are more important to American history than Thomas Jefferson, Gen. Robert E. Lee, and Thomas Edison. You left out Martin Luther King Jr, Eleanor Roosevelt, Harriet Tubman, and Pocahontas. 15. You have to believe that standardized tests are racist, but racial quotas and set-asides are not. Standardized tests are racially skewed. But it's okay for the playing field not to always be level. It's okay to have to pull yourself up by your bootstraps....to some extent. At some point a referee has to step in an make sure everybody plays at least kinda fair. 16. You have to believe that Hillary Clinton is normal and is a very nice person. She's definitely not normal. She wouldn't have excelled as she has were she normal. Back when she and Bill used to party at our farm she was nice. 17. You have to believe that the only reason socialism hasn't worked anywhere it's been tried is because the right people haven't been in charge. Nope. And Capitalism is fun if you're good at playing that game. 18. You have to believe conservatives telling the truth belong in jail, but a liar and a sex offender belonged in the White House. Neither. And that doesn't fit any real-life scenario that I'm aware with. There is that liar in the White House who told his lies in order to get us into Iraq....and has lead to all that blood-shed. Is that the one you're talking about? And the other one who got a blow job? 19. You have to believe that homosexual parades displaying drag, transvestites, and bestiality should be constitutionally protected, and manger scenes at Christmas should be illegal. Both should be allowed. 20. You have to believe that illegal Democratic Party funding by the Chinese Government is somehow in the best interest to the United States. Nope. 21. You have to believe that this message is a part of a vast, right wing conspiracy.* Nope. Guess I'm not a lib then.... -- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

I don't think I've missed your points at all. There was Make malpractice a criminal issue, and eliminate any possibility of monetary payouts. and The doc thinks it won't hurt them, and when the drug rep sees the doc writing his drug, he brings an extra special lunch to the entire office or hires the doc to speak to other doctors about the drug. and (again) There would be no malpractice insurance. Malpractice would not be a civil issue any more, but criminal. and Maybe that's why medicine is no linger curing diseases, only treating them. It's more profitable, and tackling the easy maladies for a quick buck make good financial sense. and (yet another time....) Do you think that when things go wrong in medicine that physicians REALLY should go to jail???? That really boggles my mind. It prevents him from harming other people and punishes his negligence. This is why we have jails. and Healing the sick is the incentive. Did the unpaid village medicine man in centuries past do it for the money? No. The world can change, we just have to be willing to change it. I'm not seeing the parts where you talk about how physicians really are your friends.... Maybe it was between the lines somewhere though. Idealism can be a good thing. Progress is made by people who have strong ideals and who drive their points home....especially when those ideals are grounded in reality. I think you'd find that many, if not most, physicians want to see the healthcare become more affordable. I think you'd also find that many of the "mistakes" (or would-be criminal events) that physicians make are trade-offs....trying to do the right thing. Let me give you this example....one that you might think I should be held criminally liable for had the outcome not been good: Same small-town ER that I was talking about before. One night I needed a chest tube. The nurse couldn't find one. So I rigged one (a chest tube's a pretty simple device), placed it in the man's chest, we stabilized him and shipped him to a better-equipped hospital. Had he died with my chest tube in, I'm well-aware that I could've been sued. Without a chest tube at all, his chances were worse I believe. There's likely an attorney who could argue a good case against my belief in this case had the guy died. But I didn't have time to research the odds. I had time to make a decision....right then. That, under your plan, could easily put me in jail. I'd gladly gamble with the hopes of not losing money in a malpractice case. I wouldn't so easily gamble with my freedom. But then maybe that makes me selfish for not placing a patient's life above my freedom.... -- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

And my comparison of doctors and medicine men, in the context I framed it, and for the reasons stated, is a perfectly fair analogy. Sure it's fair, and I think it's a reasonable place for people to go for healthcare if they don't want to pay a real doctor. Well, they are not bullshit, simply because you disagree. They are simply opinions. And it is bullshit. You're stating something that supports your agenda without any real knowledge about the people you're insulting. I realize you're not directing anything at an individual, but your generalizations do that anyway. I think it's funny that you and a few others jump all over generalizations made about people whom you feel a need to protect, but you can't see that your generalizations are just as ignorant. It's as erroneous as me saying that black people can't speak plain English. -- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

You were illustrating their lack of financial gain as the sole motivation of medicine men (as opposed as physicians) to help the sick. I am pretty chilled out already. Any more chilled and I wouldn't get off my ass. I do take those bullshit comments personally, because it's me that you're insulting, though. I LOVE my work. I usually read the crap that folks on here go on about without saying anything. But today I just felt more like responding. AND, fwiw, there is no good comparison between the Medicine Men of the past (or of today....they do still exist) and physicians of today. We're far more knowledgable and capable. If folks prefer being treated by the Medicine Man though, it's no skin off my nose. linz -- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

My comparison is fair, and yours is not. The medicine man of the past is the doctor of today. He used the best practices of the day, just as doctors now do. In 100 years the medicine of today will likely be looked at as extremely primitive. And I never advocated a return to medicine man. I was simply illustrating their lack of financial gain as the sole motivation to help the sick. You're full of shit or wearing blinders if you truly believe that financial gain is the sole motivation of physicians to help the sick. Or maybe you're just spouting some line. I don't know. Maybe you'll change your mind when it's you or your child who someone's busting their ass to save....whether or not you can pay. I'm making some pretty damn good money right now helping the sick. But I'm working over 100 hours every week. Break it down that way, and it doesn't seem like so much. Add to it the bullets you sweat a few times a week when things get real hairy, and it REALLY doesn't seem like much. The pucker factor can be intense sometimes. Add to that the bullshit that people like you like to spout off about my motivation, and it really, really, REALLY doesn't seem like much. Armchair quarterbacks....gotta love 'em. linz -- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

Healing the sick is the incentive. Did the unpaid village medicine man in centuries past do it for the money? No. The world can change, we just have to be willing to change it. I think that's what we should go back to....lol. Quality healthcare by the village medicine man. Ya' know, you may be onto something. Those who can pay can still go see a real doctor if they want....lol. -- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail