Lindsey

I'll find out about that... -- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

I agree, as long as you remember that if you DO happen to ovulate, and there's no guarantee at all that you won't (especially if you make a mistake and miss one dose), you're likely to abort the blastocyst and any child you may have created. Peace~ Lindsey -- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

Right....I think I'm remembering the number correctly when I say that about 60% of conceptions result in spontaneous abortion (i.e. miscarriage) before the mother even knows the conception has occurred. Lindsey -- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

I believe in Chiropractic care for those kinds of things. If you don't like chiropractors, you might try to find a D.O. who does manipulations--their training is more along the lines of an MD's with an emphasis on musculo-skeletal problems. MD's don't measure up in this area, IMHO. Peace~ Lindsey -- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

I agree (I don't think we're supposed to do that on here....lol) Lindsey -- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

I don't know where you are coming up with the "this is rare" statement. What makes you think that? Especially if one considers that often people do not take medications as prescribed, then it would only be reasonable to assume that ovulation occurs despite being on the pill. I don't know of any studies that quantify the number of pregnancies that are stopped due to the suppression of ovulation vs. the avoidance of implantation. If you want to study the pathophysiology involved, I think it would become clear to you that it is EXTREMELY likely that many pregnancies are inadvertantly aborted due to atrophy of the endometrium caused by oral contraceptives. Yes...but the cases are rare. You're comment stating that "many" are aborted unknowingly leads me to think that there is a significant amount. It's not intended, however, it does happen. IUD (copper): Intended to produce white blood cells and elliminate the sperm. OC: Intended to inhibit ovulation. -- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

Yes, but it really is inconsequential since the result is the same whether it's an intended effect or a side effect. I edited my last post to reflect that. -- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

I'm sorry I only have 3 years of medical school, but my OB-Gyn textbook (rotation that I'm on right now) disagrees with your wife. Edited to add: For the sake of argument I'll say that I agree with you, though. It doesn't matter. Would you readily accept a medication whose "side effect" for your already-born child was death? If you are so vehement in your argument against abortion, I just wonder how you accept this effect of oral contraception. -- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

Yes it IS a targeted mode of action. And a lot of pregnancies abort without anyone knowing it because of this mode of action. -- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

You asked what the definition of fetus was. I decided to add those medical definitions to the discussion. There is a lot more than size that defines those parameters. Lindsey -- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

My point is that it is not very rare even though it is not the main mode of action of the contraceptive. It is A MODE of action of the contraceptive. I didn't say it didn't happen. I said this: However, as with IUD’s, prevention of implantation is very rare and is not the main mode of action of the contraceptive. -- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

The fetal period is from the beginning of the 3rd month until birth. It is termed an embryo from the 3rd through the 8th weeks. Before that you have the blastocyst following the morula stage (16 cells). It is the blastocyst that enters the uterine cavity and actually implants. Implantation is complete at about day 11 or 12 after fertilization. As long as people have varying opinions I don't believe a proper definition exists. -- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

So....even if a woman didn't take her pills exactly as she was supposed to and she ovulated and subsequently became pregnant, the implantation of the embryo is inhibited by the ATROPHY (not thickening) of the endometrium. The result is the same--due to the effects of the pill the embryo did not implant and thus did not live. That 98-99% effectiveness of the pill can be mostly attributed to user error, not taking it when you’re supposed to. I wouldn’t consider that a great frequency of ineffectiveness. The main mode of action for OC’s is to prevent ovulation. Two other scenarios could possibly occur. OC’s can thicken the cervical mucus which can obstruct or reduce sperm mobility. Also, in rare instances, the endometrial lining of the uterus can also thicken and this might prevent an implantation. However, as with IUD’s, prevention of implantation is very rare and is not the main mode of action of the contraceptive. -- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

Sorry to go back to this so far after the fact, but I went to sleep and missed the rest. If you consider that OCPs are about 98-99% effective, it's obvious that they pretty frequently do not suppress ovulation. It's in these cases (and I would imagine that that's quite a few pregnancies) that the pill works by blocking implantation of the embryo. The purpose is not really to prevent implantation but to supress ovulation. Rarely, the result is preventing implantation. -- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

One of the actions of oral contraceptives is to create atrophic changes in the endometrium that are not conducive to implantation by the embryo. Do you support women using oral contraceptives? Lindsey -- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

There would be a huge surge of people needing new clothes hangers. Lindsey -- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

Hell....I don't know....I just got sucked in by all this right to choose/right to life talk.... Peas~ Lindsey -- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

No WAY! I'm a South Arkansas girl. We eat our OWN cows and pigs and chickens. We grow our own (ahem veggies). Peace~ Lindsey -- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

HAHAHA!!! I've never been married to anyone without a foreskin...lol. -- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

Dogs feel pain and comfort. Lindsey -- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

You're right. She's a huge pro-life activist. Peace~ Lindsey -- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

I think the point is that after the sperm fuses with the egg, you have one cell with 2 haploid strands of DNA that contains the instructions for the developing zygote. Is that a person? At what point does it become a person? When it has fingers? When it has a cerebral cortex? When it's born? (That's not a question that can be answered except through your own ethics. We have a pretty good understanding of embryology and fetal development. That's beside the point except to answer at what point in develop does such or such happen? When does it get fingers? When does it have a brain or sensory neural pathways....? Now if it's the case that an embry or fetus can only live in the environment of my body, shouldn't I have a say? My personal opinion on abortion is like many others' here. I wouldn't have one myself and I feel that it is wrong, but I don't want our lawmakers to make that decision for people who disagree with me. It's a personal decision, IMHO, that should not be legislated. Peace~ Lindsey -- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

heh heh heh....this reminds me of some old Star Trek episode somehow....lol. Peace~ Lindsey -- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

I really believe, Val, that life does keep getting better. Whenever I've felt in a rut, I've imagined what I'd really like to be doing....then I've found a way to do it. I read in one of your posts about going to grad school in Women's studies of some sort. Seems like you have a real passion there--and in grad school you surely do meet people with similar interests. I'm guessing that you just haven't gotten into your groove yet, but I have NO DOUBT that you will. Hang in there chica! Peace~ Lindsey -- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

HA!!! Of course the woman that I couldn't get along with was another female (a-hem) medical student while we were on surgery rotation....sorry to hear that women doctors haven't always been kind. I'll keep that filed away for future reference.... Peace~ Lindsey -- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail