Fast

but but! ~D Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me. Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

Sorry don't have that one, go fish. ~D Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me. Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

Clicky This thread might give you some nice reading. ~D Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me. Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

I have been looking for gear myself, and I will tell you that getting new for $2000 is going to be pretty rough. ~D Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me. Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

I got the email because when I faxed my lic applicatoin in I asked for them to email me my number once it was issued so my DZ could have it. ~D Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me. Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

Its a saftey thing that you should only jump with people that know where to stay relative to somone who is new and learning and who can avoid you if you cork. I flop to my side or back a bit... so being above me would suck, newer jumper would have a harder time avoiding me when I pop up. ~D Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me. Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

damn alana, more good examples of why you are the perfect person to have started this thread ~D Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me. Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

Congrats!

He may not have had much freefall time, but if he got comfortable enough in the tandem harness I bet it was a pretty cool canopy ride (I really enjoy the view under canopy) ~D Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me. Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

Untill the end of september it is 20 skydives, and 10 min of freefall time. All jumps count as a skydive, but you also have to meet the freefall time requirement, as I recall. ~D Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me. Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

When you read about something like this it makes it all the more clear that the mind is an amazing thing. You can tihnk so fsat taht you regarane the lteetrs in yuor haed. ~D Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me. Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

speaking of PWing, i just managed a new title!!

I think that there should be availability for either moderators or the HH to make some threads sticky. Every now and then we happen across a thread that sends a good message, or should be right there up at the top. One example of this is the gear and rigging forum. If we had a sticky thread at the top that outlines what everyones opinion about new gear for new jumpers is, then we would have lots less posts about people asking for advice. They could still ask some advice, but we would have less threads where 10 people have to tell them that they should ask thier instructor and stay near 1:1. I just think generally if the mods could do it, with some disgression that we would save some bandwith, and provide better information to new jumpers and old. ~D Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me. Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

This statement, if you had stuck with just THIS, is precisely the attitude that worries me (greatly) about SOME new jumpers I'm seeing today. If you even remotely agree with the above, as it is, then you need to reconsider skydiving in TOTAL, IMHO!! Yeah, well you don't have to do them things on every skydive if you have a cypress, but I wont jump with you, and I think you would be a pretty stupid person. I guess the problem is that people are taking saftey for granted when they have a cypress, and becomming complacent. "Oh it will save me." /sigh ~D Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me. Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

I don't think that anyone thinks that jumping with a cypress is wrong. I sure don't. I think that people are trying to say that jumping with a cypress for the wrong reasons is bad, it sets up a situation where a person will die because the cypress fails. I think that the non-cypress advocates are trying to make it clear to the people that take them for granted that a cypress is and only should be a last resort, not a device that you should be relying on. I think that a cypress save is one of the greatest things that we can read about happening. I sure as shit will take it over reading about a bounce. The point that I think people are trying to make, to people like me who are new in the sport (and yes i get it) is that you should jump like you have no cypress even if you do. Jump with the awareness and presence of mind, and saftey that you would be if you sudennly realized you had no cypress just before you went out the door, or if there was no such thing. I think the problem that people are seeing is that people are becomming reliant on them as a first line defense, like a reserve handle, rather than a last resort, all hell has broken lose, ground screaming up, i hope to god i walk away from this resort. Thats just how I am seeing the debate. ~D Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me. Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

I think that it does, but I don't think thats what the concern is about. I think we are at the point where the technology is there, but the problem that it instills is a misaligned trust in the device, rather than having the trust in yourself. I think its ok, if people want them for the type of saves that we just saw, but not if its because your not sure if your going to pull, or if you want to be less safe, and take more risk in other parts of a skydive. ~D Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me. Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

Looking from a new jumpers point of view at the way people are trained around my DZ, and from all the things that I have read on here, I can but give my opinion. For starters, I agree with the things that you are saying about instruction today making it possible for some of the people that are more timid (I can include myself in this category some, though I am a very dedicated person to something once I make up my mind to do it.) I think that along the way there is a lot of reasurance given to skydiving students that the thing they enjoy (skydiving) can be safe no matter what the mind tells you. Perfectly safe, uhh hell no, but you can minimize the risks that have to be taken. My student progressoin was on older rigs that have FXCs as aads, and all the time jumping them rigs I honestly didn't really tust the thing to go off. I was more confident in my JMs than the FXC. I think one thing that may not always be clear to students is that when you make the decisoin to go out the door of that plane, you are responsible and no one else. If your doing aff and you lose both your JMs its up to you to pull stable, or pull at all if your low. You have to be the one responsible for your own altitude, no one else... The JMs are there to help you not die, and give instruction, but you can't rely 100% on them, an AAD, RSL or anything else other than yourself. That being said, my first solo jump was #9. I had a tandem and 7 aff jumps before that (my tandem was pre any instruction, just to see if I wanted to become a skydiver.) I looked over my gear, and so did my instructors, but when it came time to go out the door, it was my decision, and my responsibility to do all the things I learned. I was just out there, alone, me, the sky, and the planet rushing up at me, my responsibility. I think that jump and the one following it were two jumps that gave me the confidence and experience to trust in myself. I didn't have to make a lot of jumps with people there with me to make sure I pulled, I went on #9, did it and knew I could form that day forward. Now this all may not be relavent to the cypress debate, but I do agree with ya bill, even if I had some gear related supervision, that getting out there and knowing you can do it is a serious acomplishment and learning tool, there was no one to back my pull up except a AAD that I honestly put very little faith in. In my mind it was pull or die. Fast forward 2 months and I have about 40 jumps, quite a few of which have just been me going out alone to practice everything from the A check dive, to learning to sitfly (hey its a fun thing to do when no one is around to jump with ) The gear I have been using has a cypress in it, its rental gear from the club. It does make me feel more safe, there is some degree of risk that is taken off the stack of ways you can die skydiving when you use one. There are no garuntees, but it does limit risk, we can all agree on that. When I started skydiving there was two things in my mind that I decided I didn't want to do, one was be the person running out to the plane gear half on, and the other is be a person who does not trust themselfs to pull, therefor requireing a cypress. I have already done the first one, because of a rushed load that me and a coach needed to make (don't worry everything was on and secured/tight by the time I made it to the plane.) I in looking for gear have decided that I will get a rig that has one (partially to make my parents happy, whom I live with because I am a broke, skydiving, college student.) The opertunity is there for me to jump without one, the time will come when it needs service and I have to decide on a repack or to wait. The only thing that still goes on in my mind about jumping without one is what if its that jump where something happens. I trust myself to pull, and do it at the right altitude, and deal with a malfunction. I agree with what you have said, there is a valuable experience to be had in jumping without one. If you have no cypress you have to take that extra time to have a good exit, not cork into someone, watch your altitude, there is less margin for error. I think that one point that needs to ring in everyones mind, and from all the things that are said, I don't think does, is that cypress or not you should always be taking them steps to make sure a dive is a safe one. I am in the so called 'cypress generation' and I think that there may not be much to gain by jumping a cypress but that thier is a lot to lose by not jumping one. Does that make me an unsafe skydiver, I sure hope not. To the people that don't jump one regularly does it quell your concerns when a person has my state of mind that, a cypress doesn't mean shit when your deciding what saftey procedures to follow? Cypress or not, I see no reason to not do something to instill more saftey. Being aware in freefall and under canopy, and even in the plane, not getting complacent and not being stupid about your actions should be the commonplace for cypress owners and for non cypress owners. I suppose that its hard for me to convey my opinion on this subject and how I really personally feel in my own mind about this, because it is easy to look at me and say that I'm a cypress kid and am just saying this. I suppose the only way to show otherwise is to take the extra risk, and prove the level of saftey that I wish to achieve by jumping without a cypress. Whats the worst that could happen? Die? Yep... well that can happen on any skydive so where is the difference? I guess that we can debate about this a lot and people will only make up thier own minds. What is the common reason that people say they jump with a cypress, tail strike? Mid air collision? I think them are the two most prominent ones. So what if we take a person that jumps with one for them reason, and put them out on a solo, from a cessna, that has no tail to hit? Ok the reasons for having one that are stated are gone. Now if that same person still has a problem jumping without that cypress then I think people are starting to gain some ground in saying that bowling or gold might be a better sport. You have taken away the things that they say they need the cypress for, so they should be able to jump without one, once, twice, 5 times, 100 times... There is no need by what they said. Am I just being naive, or is that something that would make people who don't trust a person when they say they only want it for being unconscious comfortable. Would that satisfy the growing concern of the pre-cypress generation of jumpers? Or is it a matter of taking all the risk, getting out of the king air on a FF or RW jump, taking the risk of the tailstrike, or collision, and surviving that? I'm sure that some day I will jump without one, if it is only to get on back to back loads, or because mine is in for service. A person has to have the confidence and trust in themselves to know that they can pull, if you need a cypress to make you confident in yourself to pull then I thinkthere is a problem. -------- On the alti note, there is a person at my DZ that jumps with no alti, and I think its pretty damn cool that he can tell almost any altitude just by looking. That is, was, and will stay a long winded post, some is relevant, some might not be, but its my experience and train of thought when it comes to learning, and the cypress debate. I really think that this subject is something that could be discussed for a few hours over a could of cold ones around the bonfire. Blue Skies, and Safe dives! ~D Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me. Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

My DZ hasn't converted to a throw out system as of yet for students. I think one of the concerns is the cost of prucashing new rigs, and eventually it will happen. The thing that I find scary is that converstion from the student ripcord rigs to the sport throw outs often leaves a student streaming along in the wind with a PC in hand because they forget to throw. 5 seconds later you realize its a differnt rig, let go and have a canopy overhead. Learning one muscle memory only to have to unlearn it and relearn on boc 10-20 jumps later is deffiniatly not the best method in my opinion. It works, but why not just start with throw outs. ~D Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me. Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

My guess is your arch wasn't very strong. If you are droping your knees it will cause you some problems. I would practice on the ground with locating your handles, and arching. Probally will help with the next time that you go up. ~D Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me. Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

After you get done with the AFF there will be some progression taken towards getting your A lic. That might be in the form of formal warp or coach jumps, or another method as offered by your DZ. You will get to do a solo dive and hopnpop at some point as well. Once you get your A its pretty much up to you what you want to learn. There are so many things to learn in skydiving that there is always a reason to jump more

haha, never said it wasn't creative was even funny ~D Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me. Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

Ahh the PW at work! ~D Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me. Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

Hmm, I think they are pretty close though ~D Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me. Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

I remember my JM saying something about a boring skydive when it came to the front and back loops. he told me they sucked because I just did them and was stable. He said the fun ones are where the student goes all out of control and has to work to get stable... bah Have fun and good luck on your affs! ~D Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me. Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

I'm pretty sure thats why I never looked when it was pull time durring my aff. It didn't feel natural, and looking was only to see where the ripcord was (which I never needed to look to find) I'm not advocating to not listen to instructors... it just kinda happend that way for me. ~D Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me. Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka