CooperNWO305

Another scenario is that LeClair went to the library and found the 1962 article. The Readers Guide to Periodical Literature would have had the details of the title. He could have read the article in 1962 and got the details of the title in 1972. The Readers Guide is how I researched in high school and college and is actually how I found a list of Gunther’s old articles. In 1971 every library would have had it.

It could be as simple as LeClair keeping issues of True magazine in his garage. I acknowledge that citing a magazine from 9 years before is unusual, but I’ve seen many a garage with stacks and stacks of old magazines.

If any FOIAs come back on Gunther, we may be able to see what he actually sent to the FBI and cross reference that with his book entries. Putting something in a novel and sending that info to the FBI are two very different things. Getting Gunther's notes from his family seems to be an elusive task. Plenty of families had typewriters, plenty of men knew how to type. Flyjack's comment about someone in the military knowing how to type is accurate. We don't know if a woman typed that letter or if a man did. We also don't know how long it took said person to type the letter, they very well could have written it out and then typed it by pecking at keys. It's a long stretch to get deep analytical info out of it. I'm guessing that the writer definitely used carbon paper so that he had a copy (hence the x out and not the use of whiteout). That might be something to chew on. Is there a copy of this letter sitting somewhere? The other letter "All of you" makes sense to have carbon paper used. Back in 1972 access to copying type machines was low, I'm thinking those mimeograph machines may have been an option. Broken or used up typewriter may not have indicated that it was owned by someone who used it a lot, it could just mean it was old, or cheap, or inexpensive and therefore a blue collar guy might own it. If this happened today, the FBI would probably be able to trace the typewriter, as Georger alluded to.

Math of Insects joined specifically to refute the Gunther book. This could be just a focus on Gunther, or it could be to refute Weber, Smith, Hahneman, or anyone else associated with the book. So anything he says has to be taken with a grain of salt. If he posted about other topics, I might think differently, but from my seat he is out to put down Gunther or suspects associated with the Gunther book, to include the Elsinore Ghost. Bottom line is this. Either Gunther made the whole thing up or he didn't.

These are the letters that Colbert claimed were from Rackstraw?

Some old threads on the Gunther book. Looks like a decent discussion.

1972. 13,000 donors. Over $1M. If you read the NYT you probably knew about the fund. https://www.nytimes.com/1972/03/01/archives/neediest-cases-winds-up-appeal-1020763-in-times-fund-is-below.html

Math of Insects continues to use the "simplest method" approach. I bet "Occam's Razor" is next. Maybe "confirmation bias." All of these are clichés. This case is complex, you can't just pick the simplest answer, and if you could, we would have solved this already. Analysts don't find the simplest answer, they review all possibilities, within reason. Maybe not aliens, maybe not the CIA, but still we need to look at many possibilities. I have the Ladies Home Journal magazine and the True magazine. That's part of researching, which is getting to know the author and what he's written. My theory on the Ladies Home Journal is that Clara, the woman read it. This seems to me that Clara knew all along that her man was involved in this. Clara or no Clara, I suspect if Cooper had a wife then she knew something was amiss. It could have been he was gone over that time, or he was hurt at that time, or he looked like the sketch. I have theorized that Gunther may have talked to Cooper first and coached him on the letter, but I can't seem to get that to work. Gunther would have had to lie to the FBI, make up a quote from Himmelsbach, lie about the other journalists. Regardless, the information points to Clara/LeClair being real, whether they are Cooper remains to be seen. The real Dan Clair had heart disease, died of it.

Smith is definitely an odd character, eccentric may be the word. He had his two daughters later in life, they were born in 1965 and 1967, he was 37 and 39, many years after he got married. Definitely late for the period. I have my theories on that. As for the family. I've heard people try to draw conclusions on suspects based on how their family reacts. Family thinks he's Cooper, therefore he isn't. Family stays quiet, therefore they are hiding something. Etc. Etc. Anyhow, my belief is that if he was Cooper, then his daughters may not have even known. They certainly do know now. I think if a family truly knows their loved one is Cooper, then they will be hesitant to come forward. There is just too much to lose at this point. Maybe in a few years when all the players have passed on, but for now I can see any family involved may want to keep quiet. Not to say that is the only approach, just my opinion. True, Cooper is dead and can't be tried, but in today's society, there could be any number of lawsuits and IRS or other government investigations. A family that was moving along normally for many years could now find themselves in the news, explaining to neighbors that their father or grandfather was DB Cooper, being hassled, asked about the money, being sued by Tina or Flo, etc. Even if the cases are thrown out, a family would still need a lawyer. We have some solid folks who are lawyers and involved with the DB Cooper case, but all it takes is one shyster or ambulance chaser and DB Cooper's family could be in for some serious inconvenience. I suspect we will have more luck with DB Cooper's grandkids, or even great grandkids, than with his children. The offer always stands from me, if anyone ever wants to follow the Smith line further, please do. I'll help all I can. That includes talking to the family. I'm not in contact with them anymore, but someone more persuasive than me might be able to get an in, even if it is someone who wants to prove Smith is not Cooper.

I hadn't seen the second letter in there, I guess I didn't magnify it enough. Looks lowercase, looking at the whole letter, I'd guess an o, possibly a u, but the u's in the letter have a mark at the lower right. It was definitely not a great typewriter, as the letters are jammed sometimes. Georger, I remember looking up Gunther on the DZ way back and seeing your posts. You were the first one I remember who looked at the crossed out letter. I think you had identified it as a D back then too.

Thanks for posting. I’ve got a Word document that has some others, and just general notes on many of the passages in the book. There was an affair in real life for Dan, but I don’t publicize that much.

Maybe you and I have communicated positively on other sites. But here you talk in circles and try to come across above everyone else, with words like zeitgeist and parsimony and philosophical theories. That is typical of the case where people really have no piece of their own and they want to be part of the case, so they find things to disagree with people about. Your username is new which makes me think it’s a throwaway and you probably have others. I’ll stick with communicating with the regulars on here who don’t have an option to post on other boards. That’s my main reason for being here, to interact with Flyjack and Georger. To clarify. The letter to Gunther says to wish a happy birthday to Clara on March 2nd. Dan Clair’s wife at the time was born on March 2nd. First wife. Second. Tenth, it doesn’t matter. His current wife’s birthday was the same as the one in the letter. That is quite a coincidence. A letter wishing happy birthday to someone’s wife on the exact day of her real birthday? You don’t find that unusual? Dan Clair’s wife and Dan LeClair’s wife share a birthday That’s unusual given that he could have chosen 365 other birthdays. Keep talking in circles.

My theory has been that William Smith who worked with Dan and whose fathers had worked together was behind the letters. Smith would have known how to type, or his wife. I can see Smith typing the letter and writing the D on purpose just to cross it out. He strikes me as a guy who wanted to tell people he did it, but couldn’t. A guy who wanted to throw clues out there. I have thought that maybe Clair was the one doing it, and had some tidbits about Smith, but it really sounds like Smith and his wife. Smith could have been typing Happy Birthday and typed the D not thinking. Just seems like an odd mistake in an otherwise perfect letter. You clearly want to discount the book, so I don’t expect you to be interested in the Dan Clair connection and certainly not with Smith.

In terms of the Village Voice ads. There are not a lot of Happy Birthdays actually in the Village Bulletin Boards for that timeframe. It was a hodgepodge of ads. There was one two weeks later than the Max one wishing Todd a happy birthday from Shelley. Similar look and syntax. If you’re a Dan Clair/William Smith follower, then you could suggest that Todd is one of Dan’s kids. His other kid was named Dan. Dan had lived in Boston and had been in a bad accident (wounded in Vietnam). LeClair had a daughter in Boston who had been in a bad accident. Not sure if Todd knew a Shelley. I also suggest that the crossed out D in the letter was intentional and was for Dolores, Smith’s wife. That’s me though. My input. The letters Max got would have had stamps on them with DNA. Maybe someone can break through to Max’s family and get hold of those.

Here’s one for you. How does he type a perfect letter right up until the signature. Happy Birthday Clara. What was under the. X and why? Looks like a D to me.

Himmelsbach was clear right up until he died that he didn’t like Gunther. Doug Perry even told me that. So yea, I’m gonna venture that there was FBI bias about Gunther. And competition too. Gunther’s and Himms book out the same time.

Gunther was a rich playboy. LeClair was not looking to be his buddy. He was relating to what he wrote. Gunther was a man’s man. He wrote manly articles. Targeted men. That’s why LeClair was attracted to him. Have you read the book? It’s all in there. No way Gunther would have socialized with Cooper or LeClair. Have you read his books or articles? These aren’t targeted at weak men. They are targeted at hunters and fishers and adventurers. It is quite the coincidence that Gunther’s LeClair was born in Ontario, Canada. Moves to Newark, NJ. Joins the Army. Had a wife who’s birthday is March 2nd. Dan Clair did all of this. Dan Clair/Dan LeClair. To me it is so in your face that it is over the top. Like Dan Clair made the calls knowing he would not get caught because he’s not Cooper, or someone who knew him made the calls knowing Dan could deny being Cooper. No Internet back then. Very hard to cross reference. Why did the FBI chase down every ridiculous lead and not this one? I think it’s because they didn’t like Gunther.

This is Cooper’s way of talking to someone about it. He gets publicity and attention with minimal risk.

It actually makes sense if you see Cooper as a blue collar working man. He probably didn’t read the New Yorker. Gunther wrote for True Magazine, Playboy, and other magazines. Gunther’s LeClair and Clara seemed to be middle class, not your elites who read the New Yorker or fancy books. Here is the wiki entry on True. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/True_(magazine) I see Cooper as a worker. Gets his hands dirty. Smarter than the average worker, but maybe without the resources or money as a kid who grew up in the suburbs. Not a college grad. Enlisted military.

Gunther was in a no win situation. If he didn’t report it, then he could be criticized. Lying to the FBI is a crime. Big time. He could have lost a lot. He also mentions Ed Kuhn and Mark Penzer in his book. Ed died before the book was published, but Mark was alive. So now you have Gunther lying about someone else. Very unlikely. Like anything in this case, nothing is for certain. However, I’d bank on it that Gunther was contacted by someone. What happened next and in what order is up to interpretation. As for Gunther making things up. He had to add filler. The whole section on the disappearance is taken from his True article. How do you write a 200 page book off just a few phone calls and letters? You don’t. You have to take liberties. Gunther was not writing for the New York Times or going on NBC at the time. He was into entertainment. Now if it was today, he would not need to verify much, he could just print it and let people think what they want. Journalism is a dying breed.

Life isn’t simple. Things happen that are not simple or on a single thread. You say a lot and use words like parsimony as if it is a DNA or blood test or some fine measurement. Cooper living and someone calling an author is fairly simple. It’s not convoluted. Your posts are kind of long winded. Can you just let the group know if you think Gunther made up the whole thing?

The book is prob $25 right now. There is a PDF floating around for free if you want, someone can prob send it. Some more info on the book. https://dbcooperhijack.com/2018/12/23/db-cooper-and-max-gunther/

Gunther’s family may have the notes too, but they have not seemed interested in talking. It’s been a while since his three kids have been contacted, so that might be an angle again.

Not sure what you’re asking. I don’t think Max made it up. He made up parts of the story, but I suspect he did get contacted by someone.

I’d have to find the letter. It claimed that all info had been released I think. I sent it one day and literally a few days later I got the response. No government agency works that fast. So I suspect no one even looked. Keep pressing.