CooperNWO305

I put this together for myself for conversations like this. https://dbcooperhijack.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/11/Various-Witness-Descriptions-2.pdf

The question was not directed at me, but I’ll chime in. I don’t find it bothersome. There is nothing to indicate he was left handed. If it comes out that he is, ok. But for now the information actually points more to right handed. A much higher percentage of men are right handed. He had his dominant hand in the briefcase. I’ve read about tobacco stains on his right hand (might have been left). I would not rule out a lefty, but I would not automatically rule one in. This isn’t science, but as a righty I lean towards the right side of planes and boats etc. Fly can comment, but he had some thoughts on how Cooper carried the briefcase into the lavatory.

I enjoy Tom’s presentations. They always make me think. He showed a pic of massive flooding at the Fazio’s place near Tena Bar. He also showed a pic of where the money had moved south from where he put it in a creek. I’m not totally convinced that the money didn’t wash down to the Columbia or that the flooding didn’t have anything to do with it. Another sort of related point came from a chat with two locals who told me that the rivers there can sometimes act like tidal rivers, and that the back flow at high tide can be significant, possibly moving the Tena Bar $ upstream or moving it around the upstream tributaries. He made a point of something to do with the parachute shroud lines as well, during an offline chat. I did not totally grasp what he meant, but he seemed to think the way Cooper cut the para cord one line at a time was interesting.

There was a question about the guitar I mentioned. This is the article. It mentions DB Cooper. There are some pretty solid researchers on the case. Here is one. https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/10/16/entertainment/bachman-guitar-found-trnd/index.html

Darren: We all love your podcast and can appreciate your neutrality. But I don't have the same obligations you have. The difference between the Reca group and the rest of us is that they get the facts of the case completely wrong. We all argue about suspects, but that is around the interpretation of information, not making up information. Complete fantasy. I have serious issue with people like this, especially if they vote in our elections. I'm a few miles from the January 6th incident. I've served in the military and come from a decent family line of service. These guys invoking Walt's embellished military career is a disgrace. No I haven't read the book or seen the movies or whatever else they have. I didn't finish Mein Kampf either, but I read enough know what is in there. If someone reads one paragraph on Wiki and comments, then ok, I get that they should probably get more information. But how many in the Vortex have only read one paragraph on Reca? Did I hear that one of their editors came to them about their uncle? No bias there. Walt assassinated someone in The Netherlands? Lisa was a nice woman, but she really wants to believe this. Vern says a gust carried Walt to Cle Elum. A wind gust carried him 100 miles? He discounts the side door of the plane as an issue. I've skydived many times, and not tandem. You don't go out the side door of a 727 going that fast. This group comes across as better than the rest of us. Like we are stupid, like we should believe things they believe. If I lie to you and you take a lie detector test, you will pass. You are being honest.

It would be good if we can stick to discussing the suspect and the information. This is not the first time someone has questioned Flyjack’s information. So I’ll step in and say that I am one of the people who has seen it and heard about other information. I find it compelling and even possibly useful to parts of my case, but it is his info and he can decide what he wants to share. I won’t discuss things told to me in confidence. I find he is rarely wrong, and I have not known him to lie. He is pretty well known in certain circles for the guitar find. I like music, but not as much as some people in the industry. I’ve had people very well versed tell me how cool that guitar story is. Once someone gets on the radar outside of the Vortex, they have to play by new rules, especially with the media. So if he is waiting to reveal info about Hahneman then that’s his choice. Hahneman has a story of his own outside of DB Cooper. I’ve seen more than one Cooperite have to play their cards close once they get a little famous. I’m happy for them. The spotlight is not where I want to be a lot. When it comes to information sharing, I find it much better when we all generally get along. I understand there is some bad blood between some of you. I’d like to see all of you stay on the case. I come to DZ almost exclusively to interact with Fly and Georger because they are not on the other boards much. Not using them as a resource is a loss for anyone who wants to learn more. Flyjack was the first one I interacted with who had the bills cataloged and searchable and all the 302s searchable. Long before I met many of you, I said he was the best researcher on the case. That bothers some of my other friends. Oh well. He could probably cool down here and there, but so could some of you. I’ve learned that once you have a suspect, you’re going to get called out. It happens to all of us. It happened to Eric with Sheridan, and to me, and to Reca and others. Fighting every battle will wear you out.

Are we still on the commercially pure Titanium? Or are we tracking some of it commercially pure, and some is alloy? Or are we all on the alloys?

A good amount of it was taped via Facebook Live. This has nothing to do with $$? No one is going to pay for a video of a panel of Cooperites talking. You'd be a lot more informed if you were on Facebook, but I think there will be some people posting clips on YouTube. I did not see any cameras filming the whole event, but I may have missed it. On another note. You must have contacts at McCrone or other SEM testing sites that could provide data from previous tests. Some universities must have data too. I've read excerpts of different types of tests. One was about testing food at cafeterias for metals that may have come from mixing equipment. There was data output on that. Somewhere in the world some group has tested clothing, or books, or paintings, or soil, etc. ResearchGate.net has a bunch of files, but I can't seem to get the email approval link to come through my server at work (you need a legit job in STEM or something close to get an account). I have the background, but my company is blocking the email for some reason. I'll keep working that angle. This McCrone data seems somewhat standardized across different companies, therefore these companies will have the data. If not, then we will have to wait on Tom Kaye. But the data Eric used was from McCrone, not Tom. I don't know if Tom can get us this output. I believe he will be looking at the particles themselves to see what he can find.

Any mention of D rings in the 302s? Tosaw says Cooper mentioned those. He also says Cooper handled two bourbon bottles. I can picture the bourbon coming in mini bottles.

Thanks Fly and Coopericane. I did not see it in my Gray files. I have the True Ink ones. I’ll have to look again. But these are good.

Looking at Edwards’ book. He mentions the ticket agent a few times. Dennis Lysne. I don’t have any of the 302s handy that have Lysne’s testimony. Anyone able to point me to those? Thanks.

The Native American angle is interesting. It is interesting when you think about Cooper and the swarthy description. It is one thing to look dark in the summer, but a whole other scenario when someone looks dark at the end of November in Oregon.

I was looking at it from the perspective of the other cases, all of which everyone wanted solved sooner. Had those cases had more information about suspects, I think those would have been solved or solved sooner. Zodiac and Delphi for instance have very little to go on in term of witness descriptions. All the case were extremely violent too. I would hope that if Delphi or Zodiac had 13 witnesses then there might have been a better break in those cases. DB Cooper would be fun to solve, but to solve those cases would make a huge impact on a lot of families. The lived/died is a whole other conversation. As far as I'm concerned, the people who argue that he died are typically ones who just like to argue.

There are so many cases that might have been solved or solved sooner had those cases had as many witnesses as the DB Cooper case, or witnesses like Tina who saw him for hours. Zodiac, Unabomber, Golden State Killer, Delphi Murders, BTK. The list goes on.

Witnesses, right. So 13 or so. Pretty good number of people.

In Edwards' book he says 14 passengers witnessed Cooper. I'm picturing being at airplane gates and on airplanes over the years. Even if I did not interact with someone or get a great look, if you asked me fairly soon after the flight what I remembered, I could probably tell you bits and pieces. I'm guessing people at the gate may have gotten a quick glance at him, but not enough to really offer assistance on a sketch.

Trying to refresh some of my notes here. How many witnesses saw Cooper and could help with a description? I count 10. Tina, Flo, Alice Mitchell Dennis Lysne (ticket agent) Hal Williams (gate agent) Gregory Spreckel House Labissioniere There is an old comment from the Cooper Forum that states this: "The passengers' freedom of movement, as described by Jack Almstad, is corroborated by Michael Cooper, who said he also used the rear lavatory during the flight. However, Michael said he also had a minor altercation with DB Cooper at that time because Tina stood and asked him to re-take his seat and not use the lav. Michael was miffed and refused. Tina looked at DB Cooper, who nodded his approval, and Tina allowed Michael to proceed to the restroom." This would mean at least two more people saw him, but I don't see that in the 302s. I would suppose the "cowboy" would have seen him too. OleMiss: This would be a good spreadsheet for a DB Cooper Wiki.

Georger and Math. The comments about grammar are pathetic. You two are both full of s**t and are virtue signaling. The poster who said me instead of I has done ten times more for this community than either of you and is well respected and well liked. This is the Internet and not a high school English class. We type fast and have a stream of thought. Mistakes happen. Georger you’re an old guy, so I can see how maybe you’re offended by the new tech. But there is no need to call out minor grammar issues here. Get a life both of you.

I've seen a lot of people make statements like "eyewitness testimony is not reliable" or that composite sketches are not accurate, or they will cite examples of times that witnesses could not identify someone. I realize that there are situations like that, but rarely if any time have I seen of a situation where people got a good look at the person and then came up with some off the wall description. So if we took a situation similar to Cooper, what would the sketches have come out like? Do we have instances of that? No one got a great look at Zodiac, or the Unabomber. What leads me to that is this: If you gave me a test on the eye color of my family, or friends, or public figures, and I had to answer quickly, I might get some of them wrong. But if you put brown eyes on my dad or blue eyes on my mom, I would know right away that something did not look right. So not being able to determine eye color, is not the same as looking at a photo and knowing something is wrong. Ask me to draw Babe Ruth or Lou Gehrig and I can't do it. But show me a picture of both of them and I'll tell who is who. Sometimes I really want the case solved just so we can see how close Composite B came.

Oh yea, and three pilots (one a WW2 vet) who were trusted with the lives of thousands of people over the years did not really know where they were. Also, people who saw him multiple times over the course of a couple of hours could not describe him. What else? He was 28. He was an expert with the 727 (even though he could not operate the stairs). He knew the area because he figured Tacoma was on the flight path and that McChord was 20 miles/minutes from the airport. Blue eyes is another one. What I can't figure out is if people just want to throw a wrench in things, or they want to be heard, or whatever. I don't know. As much as we don't know about the case, we do know a lot.

Don't forget 300 of the 10,000 bills were found at Tina Bar, so that means he jumped over the river and landed at Tina Bar, which means Western Flight path too. Actually, he would have had to jump south of the river given the winds.

Maybe it's just me, but to me Composite B shows a good looking man, almost too good looking. No one said Cooper was handsome, but then again no one really said he was ugly.

They mention fingerprints, and having run those through a system in 1978. I'm assuming there is no chance that any member of the public would ever get to see those prints?

https://vault.fbi.gov/D-B-Cooper%20/d.b-cooper-part-76/view

It would be interesting to know who the FOIA rep is who is getting the files. I've sensed that they follow the boards to an extent, because things we talk about have shown up in the file dumps right around the time we have talked about them. We do know for sure that Himmelsbach knew or talked to Gunther. Now that could have been after Himmelsbach retired, so that may have not made it to the files.