CooperNWO305

The Native American angle is interesting. It is interesting when you think about Cooper and the swarthy description. It is one thing to look dark in the summer, but a whole other scenario when someone looks dark at the end of November in Oregon.

I was looking at it from the perspective of the other cases, all of which everyone wanted solved sooner. Had those cases had more information about suspects, I think those would have been solved or solved sooner. Zodiac and Delphi for instance have very little to go on in term of witness descriptions. All the case were extremely violent too. I would hope that if Delphi or Zodiac had 13 witnesses then there might have been a better break in those cases. DB Cooper would be fun to solve, but to solve those cases would make a huge impact on a lot of families. The lived/died is a whole other conversation. As far as I'm concerned, the people who argue that he died are typically ones who just like to argue.

There are so many cases that might have been solved or solved sooner had those cases had as many witnesses as the DB Cooper case, or witnesses like Tina who saw him for hours. Zodiac, Unabomber, Golden State Killer, Delphi Murders, BTK. The list goes on.

Witnesses, right. So 13 or so. Pretty good number of people.

In Edwards' book he says 14 passengers witnessed Cooper. I'm picturing being at airplane gates and on airplanes over the years. Even if I did not interact with someone or get a great look, if you asked me fairly soon after the flight what I remembered, I could probably tell you bits and pieces. I'm guessing people at the gate may have gotten a quick glance at him, but not enough to really offer assistance on a sketch.

Trying to refresh some of my notes here. How many witnesses saw Cooper and could help with a description? I count 10. Tina, Flo, Alice Mitchell Dennis Lysne (ticket agent) Hal Williams (gate agent) Gregory Spreckel House Labissioniere There is an old comment from the Cooper Forum that states this: "The passengers' freedom of movement, as described by Jack Almstad, is corroborated by Michael Cooper, who said he also used the rear lavatory during the flight. However, Michael said he also had a minor altercation with DB Cooper at that time because Tina stood and asked him to re-take his seat and not use the lav. Michael was miffed and refused. Tina looked at DB Cooper, who nodded his approval, and Tina allowed Michael to proceed to the restroom." This would mean at least two more people saw him, but I don't see that in the 302s. I would suppose the "cowboy" would have seen him too. OleMiss: This would be a good spreadsheet for a DB Cooper Wiki.

Georger and Math. The comments about grammar are pathetic. You two are both full of s**t and are virtue signaling. The poster who said me instead of I has done ten times more for this community than either of you and is well respected and well liked. This is the Internet and not a high school English class. We type fast and have a stream of thought. Mistakes happen. Georger you’re an old guy, so I can see how maybe you’re offended by the new tech. But there is no need to call out minor grammar issues here. Get a life both of you.

I've seen a lot of people make statements like "eyewitness testimony is not reliable" or that composite sketches are not accurate, or they will cite examples of times that witnesses could not identify someone. I realize that there are situations like that, but rarely if any time have I seen of a situation where people got a good look at the person and then came up with some off the wall description. So if we took a situation similar to Cooper, what would the sketches have come out like? Do we have instances of that? No one got a great look at Zodiac, or the Unabomber. What leads me to that is this: If you gave me a test on the eye color of my family, or friends, or public figures, and I had to answer quickly, I might get some of them wrong. But if you put brown eyes on my dad or blue eyes on my mom, I would know right away that something did not look right. So not being able to determine eye color, is not the same as looking at a photo and knowing something is wrong. Ask me to draw Babe Ruth or Lou Gehrig and I can't do it. But show me a picture of both of them and I'll tell who is who. Sometimes I really want the case solved just so we can see how close Composite B came.

Oh yea, and three pilots (one a WW2 vet) who were trusted with the lives of thousands of people over the years did not really know where they were. Also, people who saw him multiple times over the course of a couple of hours could not describe him. What else? He was 28. He was an expert with the 727 (even though he could not operate the stairs). He knew the area because he figured Tacoma was on the flight path and that McChord was 20 miles/minutes from the airport. Blue eyes is another one. What I can't figure out is if people just want to throw a wrench in things, or they want to be heard, or whatever. I don't know. As much as we don't know about the case, we do know a lot.

Don't forget 300 of the 10,000 bills were found at Tina Bar, so that means he jumped over the river and landed at Tina Bar, which means Western Flight path too. Actually, he would have had to jump south of the river given the winds.

Maybe it's just me, but to me Composite B shows a good looking man, almost too good looking. No one said Cooper was handsome, but then again no one really said he was ugly.

They mention fingerprints, and having run those through a system in 1978. I'm assuming there is no chance that any member of the public would ever get to see those prints?

https://vault.fbi.gov/D-B-Cooper%20/d.b-cooper-part-76/view

It would be interesting to know who the FOIA rep is who is getting the files. I've sensed that they follow the boards to an extent, because things we talk about have shown up in the file dumps right around the time we have talked about them. We do know for sure that Himmelsbach knew or talked to Gunther. Now that could have been after Himmelsbach retired, so that may have not made it to the files.

Yea, it came back as Max David Gunther. I think I just put in Max Gunther. What did you do to get a more extensive search? I offered to pay more $, but it ended up being free. I've since appealed, but I don't know if that means just a more extensive search. Gunther wrote the book in 1985. The FBI had to have talked about it, but there is no guarantee that those conversations are cataloged in their files. We just don't know what the FBI talked about. The 302s are always just summaries. I talked to Jo a few times, and I am not convinced she even talked to Gunther. Someone might have been fooling her. She got real vague when I asked her for her notes. Gunther may have talked to her just for fun, but things just did not add up. I asked her for the Christmas cards he sent and she got quiet. She claims Gunther tracked Clara to California, but there is no other reference to that anywhere. A lot does not add up with her story, and the Gunther family is not talking. As for FOIA's. I've been on the receiving end of a few requests from the public through the years. I'm not FBI, but in my organization there would be a liaison for FOIAs and congressional requests, etc. Here is the issue. That person would not be knowledgeable about the content (just like I doubt the FBI FOIA person knows much about DB Cooper). So if I got a request for information, it would be on me to provide the information I had. I would also have to do this quickly. If I had spent many years in the job, I'd know where all the files were, and where the information was. But if I was new, I might only know a little bit. So, in summary, we are asking for details on the DB Cooper case, but it is not Larry Carr who is going searching in the files, it is probably someone who does not know where everything is or does not have background knowledge, or does not have the time or motivation to get everything. That is what we are dealing with on these FBI Vault releases. I'm going to speculate here, but I imagine there is some lower level government employee who has been told to find 500 pages a month, and then is told to redact those files, and then publish. I'm also going to say that I think they are abiding by the letter of the law and not the spirit of the law. They are releasing 300-500 pages of files a month like they've been told, but are under no obligation to release the good files, hence us getting month after month of duplicates or pages upon pages of them investigating some suspect from Kansas City who we know is not related to the case. I trust most of the people in the government, I don't trust all the politicians, and I certainly don't trust the system.

I got one too, days after I submitted my request, and I can tell you the US government does not move that fast, even for FOIAs. They are not looking hard for anything we request. Maybe there is Gunther info, maybe there isn't. It could be there and not indexed, or they could have gotten it and just not put it in the file. Maybe he didn't send anything (which I doubt). My guess is that the FBI still does not have all the files indexed and easily available, just like many of us in this case, to include myself. Organization takes a lot of time. It took a lawsuit from Mark Zaid to get any movement. Very little in terms of FOIA has come back to people on this case.

There seems to be disagreement as to if these redactions even exist. If they do exist, I'm curious as to what they might be hiding. I enjoy R99's posts. He's done great research. Although, I am not a big believer in the 3 letter agencies being involved, or the Western Flight Path, or that he burned in. It would be cool to find out that there is some small nugget of info that we as citizen sleuths don't have yet.

Robert. I saw your post on the redacted transmissions. Any idea what might have been said? Something important or just typical redactions?

Does anyone know the source of Mitchell’s comment about Cooper wearing long underwear? https://www.historynet.com/legend-of-d-b-cooper-what-happened-to-historys-most-famous-hijacker/

Its been a while since I've looked at the details, but there was mention of Batelle and Sprauge Electric as well, also Timet (Titanium Metals Corporation).

Based of the Facebook Live broadcast, it sounds like Nicky is looking into another suspect, totally unrelated to Klansnic. I do not know if this means he has dropped Klansnic. I assume that if something comes out about the new suspect that makes Nicky not interested in pursuing, then he might go back to Klansnic.

There was a Facebook post about the new Walter Reca book. Amazon shows it published in January 2022, but all the reviews are from August to now. Interesting that every single review is 5 stars and highly praises the book. That is not suspicious at all. https://www.amazon.com/Search-DB-Cooper-Cracked-People/dp/1614853290/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8

Going off Sluggo's timeline, the plane takes off at 7:33 PM, and Cooper jumps at 8:12. Sometime around 7:45 he is messing with the stairs, so there is potentially a 30 minute window where those stairs could have been flapping or moving, etc. That also could be the time that he threw the briefcase out or other items. What I'm wondering is how much of that area under the flight path has been searched, and if any of it is off limits.

Fly. Did you make the sketch just from the KK and pieces of the kit? In other words, it looks like you got to sketch B without using any drawing or pencils. Didn’t Roy Rose draw?

True. But the DZ is not likely Tena Bar and not likely near the river. Heck, that $ may have left the plane at a different time than Cooper or left with someone else. Tena Bar does help us at least say that this incident occurred and I guess it does show that he likely jumped then and not near Reno.