CooperNWO305

An interesting tidbit I picked up at CC was that In Search Of with Leonard Nimoy aired in December of 1979, and the money is found just a few months later. Might be a coincidence, might not. If you were holding onto that money and saw that show, you might be thinking hard about getting rid of it. I would have burned it personally. So many out of the ordinary things have to happen for the money to have landed at Tina Bar or be buried there. Regardless, it is only 3% of the actual money, and Tina Bar is right on a major river, and Cooper likely landed 10-15 miles away. It's fun to speculate, but there is still $197k out there. There are many options on how the $ got into the Columbia. I'm still not ruling out that it washed down from another section of river, or that it fell out of the plane after Cooper jumped (if he lost it on the stairs). It does seem odd to me that he took money out and handed it to the stews, then supposedly took it back. I'd suspect the money became separated from the original $200k as a packet of $6k and then somewhere along the line got thrown in the river. Could have been by Cooper, Tina, someone else. I don't need the diatoms to tell me that the money did not land in the river that night.

Could Tina have walked off the plane with any money? A young woman in a stressful moment may have said things, done things, etc. that she wishes she hadn't. The FBI would not have had much sympathy for any mistakes, no matter how much of a hero she was. Lying to the FBI is a huge deal, so it could be as simple as her older sister and brother in law telling her that something small was really not that small. Certainly if the money bag was found along with a body and it was tied shut, but was missing $6000, then there might be an issue. It could be nothing. However, if you told me that Flo or Alice were hiding something, I'd be surprised. If you told me it was Tina, then I might pause for a second.

Comments on a couple of the posts. Tina may have known Cooper before the hijacking (unlikely, but I guess possible. He did get the back seat). I'd say that if she is hiding something, it is more likely that she was manipulated by Cooper, or just thought he was a nice guy, maybe she made a bad spur of the moment decision and did something, maybe small, but still something she had to lie about). Fly you mentioned her family doing a search, I'd be curious to hear what that was about. Flo did say in Skyjack that Tina seemed to be hiding something. My opinion is that Tina was put on a pedestal and that in my mind she knows more than she said. Flo and Unsolved Mysteries: Those TV show producers are pros at editing and showing you what they want. I always got the sense that they wanted to push that new sketch, which looks like a drawing from a 2nd grader. I'd like to see the entire conversation. What I did get out of it is that Flo was adamant about remembering his eyes and eyebrows. She has dark brown eyes and I have to imagine someone who sees brown eyes everyday in the mirror knows what brown eyes look like. Are we for 100% certain that no one else saw him with his glasses off on the plane? Dennis Lysne and Hal Williams must have seen him with glasses off, and people walking to the plane. If the cabin was dark (supposedly) then how does he put the chute on and tie the money bag? He must have been real good at it to do it with his sunglasses on. I think he took them off at times. The Lyle thing. Fly how does this CIA thing fit into Lyle's report about a guy visiting Elsinore? Also, those pics from Nicky are interesting in that they seem to show guys with full parachute rigs doing parachute training, but not actually jumping out of a plane. That has been one of my theories, that Cooper could have been trained in the basics, but never actually jumped, or only jumped once or twice.

Hopefully it comes back. Having multiple forums to discuss the case helps keep the discussion equitable.

Interesting angle. I agree with the placement of the tack in the lower third, at least that’s where I wore one. Also, a tack seems to have more options for customization as in a logo, etc. Mine would not point directly to me, but would be pretty specific to a certain function. So yea, a pilot’s tie could be possible. Cooper may very well have removed the tie tack if it could identify the owner or at least narrow down the field. Pilots and plane crew are constantly on the road and staying at hotels. Any of us who have traveled a lot know how common it is to leave things behind. There is nothing that says Cooper didn’t find that tie. I still think he may have left the tie on the plane on purpose, as a symbol or because he didn’t care. Edit. Looking on eBay for old tie tacks, I see a lot of military, railroad, and airline. I think a lot of corporations probably had their own.

From what EU wrote, Tom did not mention a burn. Tom says it may have been from the pin moving around. I tend to agree with you on the bar vs the pin. I don’t know why you would wear a bar and a pin at the same time. Looks like maybe a pin was removed and replaced with a bar. Lots of possibilities with the tie, so many roads to go down. I think the tie on the plane was the one Cooper wore, but other than that there is room for debate on all of it. I do think a clip on fits Cooper more than say a fancy regular tie from a high end store.

Ok, it looks visible now. Seems to me that a cigarette could have come in contact with it. EU mentioned it would be under the overcoat (not sure I see that).

It sounds like Eric talked to Tom. It does look like an impression from a pin but it also does look bigger than a pin hole around it, to me it could be a burn. Where is that in relation to the whole tie? I’ve only seen closeups.

For those who don’t follow the Facebook group, EU posted an interesting thought about the tie. It looks as if one of the tie tack holes may actually be bigger than a normal pin and could possibly be a burn vs a hole. Far right on pic.

Dudeman. How dangerous is it if he tied the front to the harness of the back chute? Basically substituting para cord for the D rings. Seems very dangerous and I’d think if he had to use it, it would have broke. I’m wondering why he takes the front with him or throws it out. He did make a good amount of cuts on the risers.

Most things are made with righties in mind. Parachutes too I’m guessing. Would a left handed person want to modify a rig? Or would rig modifications just be made to make things easier and not consider if the person was left or right handed. As I remember, Cossey claimed he modified a rig. Or someone said it.

Were there left and right side pulls? At first thought you’d think a lefty would want a left pull, but thinking that made me think of packing gear in the Army, on yourself and on a vehicle (tank). Everyone had to be the same should someone else need to get to the gear quickly, specifically the first aid kit. I remember skydiving instructors having to pull jumper’s ripcords, and my guess is those always had to be in the same place for safety. One of the more experienced skydivers might be able to comment on whether the handle location was often changed.

My research is in line with Fly’s. I talked to some Navy guys of the era about a plane named the Twin Beech. Beechcraft. Recon plane and had other uses. They sent me pics and this info. This would indicate that air crews would know harnesses and chutes but may never have jumped. Makes me think of a life preserver drill you’d do on a ship, but may not have gone overboard. “The aircrew would wear parachute harnesses but the QAC chest packs were stowed in the cabin. In the SNB-5P/RC-45J they stowed quick attach chest pack parachutes on the back of each of the forward cabin seats on bungees and hooks and the aft seat ‘chute was stowed under the seat on the floor with similar bungees and hooks as can be seen in the photo. The pilots stowed their QAC chest packs on a shelf right across from the entry door. The door could be jettisoned to bail out.”

Have you ever dealt with the US Government? This does not surprise me at all.

Was Reynolds Metals in Portland looked at? I seem to remember some chatter about an Alcoa plant and was wondering if that is the same place?

Working completely independently from each other, both groups zero in on the exact 3 particles and then independently both decide on RemCru? How is that possible? Eric was talking about this well before anyone else.

I don’t think anyone is saying that box was filled with all the particles. My observation is in line with many others, and that is we don’t know where the tie was before or after. When there are stories of FBI agents wearing it at parties as well as 14 DNA profiles and Tom’s DNA, then one has to wonder. My stance as been the same for years. The tie probably came from some industrial setting. Tracing that to one location is impossible, regardless of how much we’d like to do that. For a large group of people who disagree with Eric on things, it’s unusual to now see them agreeing with his research on the particles. One final note. There is this push to go upstream on the particles, as in where were they manufactured? Why not go further upstream and find where they were mined or refined? But better yet, why not go downstream to where these elements were used? You guys say “metals”. Do you realize how many metals related companies were in the US in 1971? We helped win WWII. The US went to the Moon in 1969. This discussion is fun, but the lectures are getting tiring. None of the elements on the tie are uncommon. None. Some are just more common than others. Find some uranium or plutonium and then we have a lead. When will we have scientists with documented degrees in science at the Masters or PhD levels giving us credible information? Has McCrone weighed in? I’ll say this to both teams about both suspects. If the tie theory fell apart, is your guy still a good suspect? Age? Description? Background? If you found someone at RemCru who fit the profile better, would you consider him? How do you know you found everyone that worked at those companies in 1965? I can’t even find out who worked at an office a year ago.

I don't see Cooper as a skydiver, but the narrative for a while was that there was no way he was a skydiver because he chose the military chute and a skydiver would have chosen the civilian one. That term "luxury" has been burned in my brain for years, but lately I'm sensing that it simply was not luxury. So one of the reasons we discounted skydivers may not be a valid reason anymore. I still think there are other reasons though that indicate he was not a skydiver to the level of a Sheridan Peterson.

So is the general feeling now that both back chutes were both actually more military vs one being military and one being civilian (military modified chute) and that they were essentially the same?

I must have missed this one, or have forgotten. Aspersions on Tina or on LD or on DB Cooper?

What's interesting is in the pic I have from the book, this middle paragraph is removed, so it reads as "as soon as this lowering of the door and stairs were accomplished in flight.." So from the book, it seems contradictory, but from the actual 302 it is not.

I argued this one with Eric back in June. 3 times in that communication they mention stairs lowered in flight. It is also in a 302 from Tina (it is in Martin's book), I don't have it handy, that says lowered in flight, but then a few lines down she contradicts that. My argument to Eric was not necessarily that one was right or wrong, but that there is ambiguity, and therefore I can't buy into this absolute statement that he wanted to jump near Seattle. My issue with Seattle is that it is urban, and there is a lot of water there. Cooper is taking a huge risk jumping near there versus something more suburban like outside of Portland. He also does not know when that plane will hit 10,000 feet, so if he planned to have some time to freefall or to get that chute open. He did jump near Portland, so I give that some weight.

Yea we aren’t likely to get Cooper’s DNA readout. I remember years ago hearing that they had 9 loci, but it was told to me with the caveat that I could not chat about it. So some of you guys had some good inside info, which is a good thing. The DNA thing has always fascinated me, both from a Cooper standpoint and from personal family research. I’ve had my DNA uploaded for a while, and that gives one a whole new insight into how people are related. The Golden State Killer case went back to 4th cousins (I’ve read 3rd too). They had 1,000 people to look at. Even if those 1,000 were still alive, that’s 1,000 out of 350 million in the US. The chances of DNA matching or two people being related is very very low. So when there is a DNA match, it is pretty foolproof.

The most recent release Part 77. Page 263-264 on the PDF, lower right corner says DB Cooper-33623

Yea, that's my concern, that the DNA is not really Cooper's. However, if it is his, then the odds of someone's partial profile matching this partial profile are astronomically low, so if someone was ruled in, there's a good shot he could be Cooper. I checked my notes and I was tracking 13 STR locations for CODIS. I also read that they can go up to 22 locations. But even with the 9 locations they have for "Cooper" that would narrow the field down a lot. But at this point I think you'd need to exhume a body or find something of theirs still in storage. The FBI won't be doing this.