Ron

Yes, but given the choice I would say get it from people who are qualified, not from parrots who just say what they are told without understanding the whole picture. Look at I think post 59 of this thread for several examples of where well ment advice did harm, or just complicated the issues. I think thats great...And I am going to continue to call BS when I see advice that is wrong (a lot like Kallend blasts me when I use the wrong Newtons Law) And I am going to contiune to state that a person with 100 jumps does not know enough to give advice. They don't have the experience. And I never understand the need to get advice from a bunch a folks that you don't know, and don't know if they have any skills. Instead of asking your instructors or S&TA's.... Now, why would you take advice from someone with 100 jumps when there are folks that have proven they know the subject matter, and have shown they know how to communicate it? Fact is the most dangerous thing about a person with 100 jumps is that they don't know what they don't know. Giving advice can cause big problems if you don't have the whole picture. And I have yet to meet a person with 100 jumps that knew enough to give advice...The best they can do is say what worked for them...And while that may work.... that may not be right. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

You drive on public roads???? Or do you just walk everywhere? When was the last time you had to defend your house with a weapon from invaders? Sounds to me like you are getting a part of your tax money back. I think we have a duty to help others much less fortunate than us. There are plenty of folks living off of the public tit here in the US...Its a way of life for some. Yes, I would rather my money go to rebuild a country and in that manner possibly end a terrorist supporting goverment, than give it to some lazy person here who refuses to get a job so they can buy a pair of Nikes I would not buy for myself. Thats a healthy policy..... Uh this stupid war won the freedom of all of Iraq....Ended the reign of a ruthless evil man that supported terror against the world. Hey, and it may drop gas proces also...I drive I like cheap gas. Ya mean like: "I didn't inhale" A guy that can't even smoke pot right gets elected? "I did not have sex with a white house intern" I could go on.... Fact is Iraq was told to get rid of WMD's...The UN agreed and said they would face action if they didn't comply...they didn't comply and the UN has no spine. So the US went in. Hell I thought it ver possible that he had WMD's....And since he was supposed to get rid of them...And he was not being nice and showing/proving to us he had...I think we had the right. It was a UN resolution, so a good part of the world agreed with it....But the UN has no spine, and looked like a paper tiger. Words with out deeds are nothing. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Never said it was right...Just fact. I would think that you know me well enough by now to know I am all about saftey. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Again knowledge based, not performanced based. I don't have issues with any of that...What I have issue with is a 100 wonder telling folks how to flat turn...In this case they don't have the skills or the knowledge. Would you teach canopy control to folks when you had 100 jumps? I mean we all know you can explain the pyhsics of flight to us (better than just about anyone here), but does that make you qualified to teach canopy control to students? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Feel free to question everything....Double check everything...Hell tripple check anything I write. It didn't sound that way from your other post, but it was a perfect example (Maybe not with you and this case) of how folks with a little knowledge about a subject can try to teach it...Hell it happens here all the time. Kallends program is correct, the 45 degree thingy is not. But I know folks that will try to teach it, when they have no clue (Again maybe not in your case, but it does happen). It is one of the dangers of people without the knowledge giving advice. I have seen some folks give really crappy advice that does WAY more damage than good. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I have said this before and I'll say it again. What type of suit is most worn on your DZ? I have found it is usually better to jump what the folks at your DZ jump. There is usually a reason. 1. Price. Most times different DZ's get better deals and service from certain companies. 2. People there know the product. From colors to function a person with the knowledge of the quirks of that piece of equipment from that company is a good thing. However since I jump a Michagan suit.....I have to say they are the best. http://www.michigansuits.com/ I have gotten a suit in less than a week with no rush fee. And I have seen most in less than two weeks. I love these suits. Price was much better than Tony Suits. Mike is around 250.00 for a suit thats loaded. 288.00 for a Tony. Without padding ect... Loaded comp suits for both about equally equipt are Michagan 325.00 Tony 338.00 Give him a call and and talk to him (386) 439-1036 He is closed till Jan 2nd, but he is checking his machine. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Again this is knowledge based , not performanced based. I would rather the Instructor with 1,000 jumps teaching than the person with 100 Example.....right above me...Kelly with 33 jumps says Here Kelly with 33 jumps is trying to explain to an instructor a method that she does not understand herself. Now while I agree the 45 degree method does not work....Kelly does not have the knowledge to explain why its wrong. So she probley should not be trying to teach it. Thoughts Doc? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

And how many jumpers? I feel comfertable at around 200 a year. If I did 50 I'd quit. This year only 3 people with more than 1000 jumps died. 20 had less. 14 had less than 600. So 1 - 600. 14 600-1000. 6 Over 1000. 3 Who looks to be in the danger zone? I disagree....Or we would see airspeed bouncing like crazy. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

OK, but very few think they are going to burnout. But many people do. Average time in the sport is 3 years and number of jumps is around 300. Then folks leave. Take a good look at the DZ next time you are there. Write down everyones name for a mth. Then look at that list in 3 years.....You will not be able to put a face with the name. I look through old skydiving photos...And I wonder where all my friends are...I start to ask around...And some are dead, others just "disapeared". "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Its about population base, not each person....Simple fact is more folks die in the US than in Denmark...How many fatalites in Denmark last year? The US had 33 in 2002, 23 so far this year. The USPA claims to have about 35,000 members. Thats one death for every 1060 USPA members. The RATE might be higher, I don't know. And I have seen WAY more CYPRES fires from big ways than 4 ways. Hell I just watched one this weekend. I have never seen one from a 4way team. Define "experienced"...These guys are experienced...But a guy with 200 jumps might consider himself "experienced". But a PRO 8 way team might make close to 10,000 jumps in a year, a PRO 4way team 5,000 jumps. But they don't hit nearly as much as guys with 500 total jumps. Its about being current. I feel the same way about a car....The biggest difference is this...I have 3,000 jumps and about 50 hrs of freefall in 10 years. I drive over 40 hrs a mth, and I have been driving for 15 years. 7200 hrs. I almost drive every mth what it took me 10 years of skydiving to get. Which do you think I am more comfertable with after a 3 mth layoff in both? Which do you think I pick up faster when I come back???? But yes after 3 mths of not driving I was not current either. I am not current flying a plane even though I have over 100 flight hrs...But I have not flown in a year...And yes I sucked bad when I went for a flight. So currency is everything. And the USPA says you should have retraining if you have been off that long.....But training is no sustitute for experience and currency. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

How about based on population? If we have a higher % of jumpers, and they make more jumps....Then yes it is more dangerous to jump here than there. More people do die in the US than anywhere else... I will not....Heres a neat bit for you...More people die in the US due to Bee stings than skydiving. More people die in the US due to slipping stepping out of their bathtubs.... Put there are tons more bee stings and bathtubs than skydivers. So you can spin anything... "Don't go outside you might die!!!!!' "Don't take showers...They could kill you!" who blamed insurance? I didn't I said that insurance money does not replace a father or spouse. And yes the lack of money would hurt as well. A large number of skydivers are not insured...In this case he was unemployed. And it will take him MANY years to ever pay that off. Even without any insurance he still got medical care. Then you really should not talk...This weekend at Zhills we had a guy have a CYPRES fire...It was on a big way...I would bet that there are more CYPRES fires from big ways than from 4 way...It has happend in 4way...In fact I happend I think the Italian team a few years ago... I only know of one US 4way team that it happend to. So I guess the US and europe are tied? Then why is it that Airspeed the Knights Majic and people who jump everyday don't die more than weekenders? Im waiting for a good response for you on this. And it is this attitude that gets folks killed...You lose ALOT in 6 mths. The longest I have ever gone is 3 mths. And I felt uncurrent as hell. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

What BS!!!! I have jumped without an Alti...for about 600 jumps, but I prefer to have one. And as a matter of fact I have one on my rig....And almost all I do is 4way. I guess thats bad? Altimeter #1. My eyeballs. They are not supper accurate, but if they break I have a bigger issue. Altimeter#2. My Alti III. More accurate than my eyes, very reliable..But it can break. But when it breaks it easy to tell its broken. Alimeter #3. My Pro Dytter. More of a break off warning. If it breaks you will not know until you are lower than you wanted to be...A very bad device to become dependant on..But I also use my internal clock, eyes, my altimeter, and my 4 way team members eyes, internal clocks, altimeters and audibles to signal break off. Anything else is stupid. And if my group had issues with me looking at my altimeter....Well I would find a new group...Its hard to win a meet if you are dead. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

The US health care is better than 90% of the rest of the world. I have and I like what I have. Bush is doing a good job. These "issues" you are bithching about have been around a lot longer than just Bush. And we have a system of government that does not lend well to socialist programs. Its not iin the nature of the founding of this country. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

And I don't belittle even one death...as you seem to be doing with us and 9/11. The simple fact is 9/11 we lost 3 times what you did in ONE attack. Find me one terror attack with a higher body count? You can't. Thats why its such a big deal. 9/11 showed that they were very well financed, had very good intel and pulled off an almost perfect operation....The likes of which have never been seen before. 9/11 was not some guy with a home made bomb. It was a military operation on a large scale...A scale that has never been seen before from a terroist. THAT is why it is a big deal. I don't live in a bubble....But you seem to missing the FACT that it was the largest terroist attack ever...And it forcasts a very bad outlook on the future. Its not home made bombs anymore. Its big time operations. Show me one attack that was the size of this...in planning or in body count. So its not just a terror attack (I can't believe you can even say that)....Its the wake up call that these terroists are able to plan big operations with military effectiveness. Last time I checked...The UN voted on it...but then had no spine to back it up. So the UN and the Nations in the UN said he would face action....Its just the US had the balls to back up the words. Words without actions are worthless. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I don't agree with this. There are more motorcycle accidents since there are more people on motorcycles. Skydiving is not less dangerous. Show me facts that support that and I will change my mind. This is something we tell whuffos. A half million in insurance is nothing compared to the loss of a father and spouse...Besides insurance money runs out at some point. I don't knoe a single person who lost a spouse or parent that said "Well hes gone, but I got paid well" It's not all about money...even though a family that loses an income earner will have money issues...Its also about not being there to raise your kids...Its about taking resposability for your children, and putting them ahead of yourself. I have a friend with 107,000 in medical bills from a bad landing. He will not be jumping anytime soon. You answered your own question. Accident rates rise every year when the US's northern DZ's reopen for buissness....Why? Because people who have not jumped in 4-6 mths come out...They are uncurrent and don't act like they are. Fact is...How many top 4 and 8 way folks have you seen bounce? They make 1000 jumps a year. They should have a higher accident rate due to the total number of possible exposures to a possible accident. But the fact that they are supper current makes them safer than a normal jumper. Currency is a big part of saftey. If you make 20 jumps a year you are not very current. If it has been 6 mths since your last jump, you are not current. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I have cutaway at 700 feet before....(Long story do a search if you care). I cutaway and as soon as I felt myself drop I pulled the Reserve as I rolled into the relative wind. Simple fact is that around 500 feet I would most likley cutaway with a damn near Left then Right pull. (Yes, I know its backwards) 700-1000 gunslinger pull. both at same time. Above 1,000 normal chop. But this is MY RESERVE PROCEDURE!!!!!!! It has worked for me, and I have used it 6 times. YOUR RESULTS MAY VARY....AND IN FACT YOU MAY DIE FOLLOWING THIS ADVICE!!!!!! Talk to your friendly local S&TA, Rigger and Instructors for the final word. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

How about me? PhreeZone is right. To many people just spout what they have been told (or heard). They are noting but Parrot Instructors....And they can cause a hell of a lot more problems than they solve.... Reference post 59 of this thread for examples. I would rather have an Instructor answer every stupid question than a 100 jump wonder that took a canopy control course. Why have instructors and S&TA's if you don't use them? Why have ratings if anyone can teach anything? Why get advice from the damn internet? The problem is that to a person with 10 jumps 100 seems to be a lot. And you don't know enough at 10 jumps to detect bullshit. At 100 jumps you still can't detect all the bullshit. If you think you know it all at 1,000....Again BS. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

3 Generals are sitting around talking about how bad their troopers are. The first General is in the 82nd. He yells to his trooper...."Get in that plane with 150 punds of equipment and get out at 500 feet." The trooper yells "YES SIR!!!!" and goes about his task. The General says "That took guts" The second General a Ranger says "Thats nothing....Ranger! Get that 160 pounds of gear, and get in that plane and jump from 500 feet without a reserve!" The Ranger yells "HOOAH!" and goes about hs task. The Ranger General looks at the 82nd General and says "That took guts!" The SF General tells one of his guys "Sergeant, Get 180 pounds of gear and get in that plane WITHOUT a parachute!" The SF soldier looks at him and says "Hell no, Sir!!! are you out of your mind?" The SF General looks at the other two Generals and says..."Now THAT took guts!" "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

That does not explain the other 100 times it has happened. No, no...Thank YOU! And while we are at it thank your Mom and Dad for me. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

UM....I think its about killing 3,000 people that had done nothing. If you attack a military target thats one thing. But they attacked unarmed Men, Women, and Children. And YES, it was on our home turf. But these bomb attacks you talk about.....Have 3,000 people been killed? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

This is not a question you can ask. People stop for many reason...most are unforseen. 1. Get married and start popping out kids. Seen this a lot. If I have kids I have to admit it would be hard for me to do a high risk sport and risk THEIR lives with mine. Being single and 31 I can do what I damn well please, and my parents can party on my life insurance. But if I had a family.....Life insurance does not go a long way to send kids to school, and just pay the bills. 2. Have a close call. Almost get killed once (or Twice!) and see if it does not change your outlook. I have seen people with almost a thousand jumps land from a malfunction....and quit right there, or just slowly fade away as it finaly hits them that they can die doing this. 3. Get hurt. Break a major bone and go through the mounths or years of rehab. Some never come back from an injury...Not because they can't but because they don't want to risk that pain again. 4. Become broke. No money and you can't jump much...If you don't jump much you are dangerous. (How many Airspeed/Knights/Majic guys do you see get hurt a year? I mean they do more jumps than most will ever do in a life in one year.) A very common way for people to quit... Get hurt, spend lots on medical bills (Like 100,000 or more). You hate the pain of recovery, you can't jump for a year or better, and you are flat out scared to jump again. Very easy to quit, and no one expects that they will get hurt. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Then how do you see yourself as better educated? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

He gave money to the families of suicide bombers. Pakistan is atleast pretending to help us some Saudi Arabia did that nice comercial right after 9/11 saying they support us....While I think they are full of shit, they don't burn American flags....So until we have cause we can't do shit.... Saddam, was wide open in his hatred of us. AND he didn't comply with the UN. So not only did he openly hate us, support terror but he also would not follow the UN's rules....These other countries have not done all of that...At least not in the open. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

And you are totally sexy!!! Hell I saw you this weekend and my breath left me. These pics don't help the situation at all! Im not sure if I want you to quit posting them...or post more... Screw it post more!!! "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

You seemed to avoid the whole SUPPORTING terror networks part of my reply. Saddam did, N'Korea does not. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334