Ron

True, but it still is or could be an issue. And at least one of the fatalities was not on mini risers...more like Tandem risers. Anyway it is an example of how an RSL can cause an issue that makes things worse. And the answer to bad training is not to add a cool tool. And the answer to a bad tool is not another cool tool. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I am VERY interested on your take on this Bill. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

How about a broken riser? Its happened. But there are other issue with RSL's...And if folks want to read about them....Then do a search. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

You don't know that...As far as we know the person, the story, the jump #'s could be made up.....Anyone know of this person? Aggie dave doesn't know her, and hell he spends enough time on here ya know.... "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

http://www.bankrate.com/cweb/news/cc/20020625a.asp Mentioned this place... "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

OK RSL's have both saved and killed people. They have saved more than they killed..But for me a saftey device that when properly used can kill you...Is not such a great saftey device. There are folks that swear by them...And swear against them....I'm kinda on both sides. Do your homework. Find out how they can help, and how they can hurt you. My personal feelings on it is this...It will only help you if you do something really stupid. Like forget to pull the reserve after cutting away. I don't know why people do this, but they do. I think better and more frequent training is a better way to deal with this than a device. I don't like how an RSL takes out the choice of when to deploy the reserve, and in doing so can cause problems including killing you. That being said sometimes people just freakout....Now I take the stance that if you are the type of person that feels they need all these neat things to be "safe" Then you are not safe at all. The one place and time I can see an RSL is for new jumpers...Jumpers who have not had a reserve ride. So my standard line is "Get one and use it. While you are using it learn as much as you can about it...And make your own opinion. It will either scare the shit out of you, or give you a warm fuzzy feeling...After your first reserve ride...I see no need for it however" I have not had one since jump #12...And I will not wear one. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Helicopter a canopy????? Whats that? And to answer the first question.... A braked turn using the toggles is the safest way to turn when low. You will lose less altitude, and not gain as much speed as any other way...Several people would be alive today if they knew about (And practiced till it becomes a normal reaction in high stress situation) braked turns. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Nice sig line....From The Little Prince. Did you know that Antoine de Saint Exupery was shot down in WWII by a German fan? The irony of it. Other good quotes: If you want to build a ship, don't drum up the men to gather wood, divide the work and give orders. Instead, teach them to yearn for the vast and endless sea. A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral. Love does not consist in gazing at each other but in looking outward together in the same direction. An amazing man. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I know that they have worn rigs in the Ft.Bragg tunnel. I have heard storys about someone trying to deply one....It was much less of an issue than you would think. They have a grateing that it stuck to...(Or so I am told.) Now an outdoor tunnel might be ugly. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

My group has a V90, a ST107 a V79, and and Veng 107. These are much smaller than most FF peoples canopies. The only time that they are right is when there is a Muff load. And you can land a 100 way there safe, and we land formation loads safe there all the time.....So the FF have smaller canopies argument is not a very good one. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

You can't rely on that. Most folks I know turn right to the DZ and head there. Assuming that the FF would do that its is a really bad way to be safe. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Maybe I didn't say that right.... The question read "Which is MORE dangerous, Vertical or Horizontal?" Read: If you are going to collide, which will cause more damage? A vertical collision (Like from one guy comming down through your group...) Or Horizontal (Like a guy docking hard, but on level)? The answer is that a Vertical collision is much more dangerous....It is very easy to understand how a guy corking can kill you. I have heard of very few accidents where two people have collided that had a high Horizontal speed that produced injuries. GK diamond track being the only one I can think off. Well you can't control the next group...which is why the safest plan should be the one you use....The one that INCREASES seperation. But the high opening FF does matter...If he is opening high he is not if freefall as long . And that reduces his horizontal seperation (Now if he is after the flat group this just ADDS seperation.) And he is open earlier than normal. So if the FF guy is opening high then you would need to add even more exit time to be safe. And if the guy is not good and flies all over the place. (Like I do when I do FF)...Then he should not be before the flat group. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Vertical kills....Horizontal only if you really try...This used to be an "A" license question. "What is most dangerous Vertical seperation or Horizontal?" Now the simple fact is if you look at a post Here I asked the same question....I got attacked by several folks for it also. I have seen a 4way drift right over a FF jump..And the S&TA was watching it with me...He said "Well, I guess we should do croswind jump runs today." I agree that Flat should be first...It is safer. However, FF can be first it just risks extra passes...And as I was told more than once..."It's not your fuel." Yes sometimes the pilots bitch, but Im not going to do something unsafe to make them happy. Then there is the simple question of where do you put a new FF? A FF can move across the sky much faster than a backsliding Flat guy....And I doubt that the newbie FF can tell what he is doing, or what way the jumprun is. And what do you do with FF who open high? As a rule Flat first makes sense....But since I don't own the world I just have to make the current rules work....And that means taking extra passes if I feel the need. Oh well.... "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I didn't remember this. I had heard about it. But I didn't remember it. Whenever I think of Tuskeegee...I think of the Airmen. They never lost a bomber under their watch. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

OK Bill... And trust me I understand how they could feel. And I think we should have never been over there in the first place. We should have built a big wall and let them figure out how to eat using sand and oil. But the simple fact is that they never forgot the crusaides. Now I had about as much to do with the crusaides as you did with slavery. I have never killed anyone for not praying to my God. In fact I can't think of the last war that the US was in that was basied on religion...In fact I can't think of one. (Im sure someone will gladly point one out to me however). As long as we are there...They are going to hate us....But I think they are going to hate us even if we are not there. Hate brings people together, makes groups stronger. So the radicals are going to use hate for us to bond and secure power. There is no correct answer. There is no peaceful way to stop this. This is a combination of hundreds of years of distrust and hatred. I have spent time with many Arabs....Over here they are nice people...Hell my Sister married a man from Turkey. But I have also been treated like an infidel before, a lower class not even human. Now I did nothing to these people, and tried to treat them with honesty....And they just treated me like crap. This was my first taste of the hatred, and to be honest being a white male my first taste of being on the recieving side of hatred for nothing I have done, but hatred for who I am. And they were the most back stabbing of people I have met. Some were very friendly to my face, but ripped me apart when I was not around. So I know first hand the hatred that SOME of them have....It seems that ALL f the Arabs I have met that lived here didn't seem that way, but MOST of the ones that were visiting, or never lived here did treat me like an infidel. The problem is that there is no way to reverse hatred...It has to dissapear with time. Until that time I will stand on the wall with my gun. And anyone that tries to hurt my family or friends will die. Im not going to go out to find them, but Im not going to let them come find me unprepaired. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Try walking in south central LA...And anyway we didn't kill the Tuskegee airmen...We didn't treat them fair, but we didn't kill them. And that was years ago...I had nothing to do with that. And the US does not just launch cruise missles into soft targets...We use laser guided bombs to take out military targets that are sometimes located in soft areas....Big difference. True and that was one of OBL big problems with us...We came in and hung around way to long. And several of these goverments are killing their own people. Plus giving the option of protecting my family or yours...I'll protect mine first. And some of these goverments were anti-American and suported terror. Such as Saddam paying suicide bombers. Which was nothing compared to the concentration camps. And the Atom bombs saved lives on both sides compared to an invasion. I agree with most of this. But it would almost be impossible to isolate ourselves. The world is shrinking and the simple fact is that they will hate us sinc we don't think like them...And add in the fact that we live so well compared to most of them....Its a bad thing. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Less chance of line twist due to the bag not bouncing as much. You will have to do about 2 or 3 more stows...But that should slow the openings even more. Bill Booth put a single stow on one of my bags...The idea was that it was the first line stow that can cause the bag to spin. It worked just fine with just that one stow. Javelins normally come with a single locking stow at the end....I think it is more important that it is the first stow. Id say try it....I liked it. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I live on the DZ... I drive 40 miles to work. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Just a quick thought. I don't know who my enemies are until: 1. You do something to piss me off. Well, thats about it. I don't need a better reason to call someone my enemy than them saying they hate me, or bombing me. Now this whole thing was started back before ANY of us were alive....Like back in the Biblical times. Personally I don't have a problem with ANY person until they start shit. I can't be held resposable for the crusaides....they were wrong as hell, but I can't do anything about them. Just like modern Germains can't do anything about WWII. But today people can do something, and if a person wants to call me a bad person and take steps to kill me or my family....Then they must die. I personally think we should build a big fence, and as soon as someone crosses that fence they get shot. We should reduce our dependence on OIL and let the middle east figure a way to eat sand and oil. As soon as a militant leader screams death to the Americans...their head should explode by a snipers round. Like it or not this is a reliegious war....It is for them and it will become one for us...It is unaviodable. Killing for a God I have always found to be funny. But ALL religions have done it. And to answer your questions....Terrorist or Religious Warrior, Freedom Fighter or Guerilla. All is a matter of how you look at it. But I don't think most Americans hate Islam....But they will not stand by while people are killed in the name of it. Simple fact most Americans didn't care about the middle east till 9/11. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Its not a USPA award either "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Like USPA's Falcon and Double Falcon are (or were) a 4 point 4way or an 8 point 4 way. The Vulture is a 2 point 4way from 2 grand. And the Double Vulture is a 4 point 4way from 4 grand. (It may very depending on DZ) I have both....Several times over. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Not directed at any one person. Which is NOT windshear...Its wind being blocked by the trees. Happens all the time if you land right infront of or around trees. Yes, windshear will drop you on your ass. But so will landing in a turbulent area. And clearly landing in a turn will also do damage. So add in landing downwind or around trees, the simple fact that wind is not always constant (And in fact if I had to land into a closed area like a stadium I would rather have it be a no wind day). And add in a low turn (that will always in itself be a bad thing) you have what we call skydiving. If you find yourself landing in a tight area, you need to know how the objects around you will cause problems with the wind, and they will effect the way your canopy flies. All of these arguments are stupid really....A canopy does not fly differently in a steady wind than it does in a no wind day EXCEPT in relation to the ground. Yes winds will effect the canopy whenever there is a change in them. DUH!!! is this a really hard concept to grasp? If I come in to land and the wind just drops....Yes, my canopy is going to dive to try and get back to its flying speed. And if I come in for a swoop and the winds pick up I am going to have to adjust to the new winds. If I ask what happens if I pull the strings down. All I need for an answer is that it will flare the canopy. I don't need to get into a damn debate on Newtonian Physics. Most don't care, and will not learn it anyway. edited for PA's "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Quade, We do it. You can launch a two way in the tunnel from the door. A 4way you walk in, stand on the net, and give a count. At the "Go" you transition from standing with grips to flying. You can't, but it does *simulate* (which is the whole deal with a tunnel) going from not flying to flying and helps reduce the amount of hold time from exit to break. You can't practice exits in the tunnel, and you can't track in the tunnel...You *can* practice the body position need to track (although you will not know if you have the correct position since you will not be able to gain the horizontal speed needed to gain lift). And you can practice the not skydiving/suddenly skydiving part of an exit in the tunnel. Both can be good, but both also are not the same thing as it is in freefall. Remember while you are flying your body in a wind tunnel, you are not skydiving, or freefalling and that means that somethings will not be able to be practiced. Ron "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

And you don't have to follow the ISP. Fact is I would rather have an S/L student spot a load for me than ana AFF student. And where I taught SL students learned to pack...I know several AFF grads that don't know how to pack. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

ya know thats kinda funny....except its not... I have some Kidney problems....I had to go to the emergency room a few weeks ago with some REALLY bad kidney pain. I have to go back for some test....And they gave me a cool kit I have to use...Basicly its 3 types of laxative tablets, liquids ect......I guess they really want me cleaned out huh? So I guess I am anal "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334