Ron

And if I remember correctly a few folks got off that dive since he was on it....They didn't need a CYPRES. He was seen as a danger and they chose not to jump with him in that way (letting him swoop). Hit his head on a climbing pass with the door side engine at full power. Did a posied exit and jumped up. The other people in the King Air had no problem. Both these show that while yes the person was knocked out...they did something stupid. Yes, you can't control everything, and stupid things happen. But the people who got off the first dive, and the others in the Kinig Air show that by using better training, and better decisions...You can lower the chance of needing a CYPRES. Again I think they are great, and in fact I have one....But I also use my head to prevent me needed to be saved by the cool toy..... And everyone should. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

No, if you can't do the job....don't bitch about not being allowed. Its a shame that women want to be "equal" then they are given seperate tests, and expectations. Thats not equal. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

That was a master piece!!!!!! Man you are disappointing me. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

How many were knocked out by someone else? And how many were them doing something stupid? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Thats because the jumper may not use his head when the shit hits the fan. This does not mean that jump #121 you will not die. There is a reason that we preach WL....I have seen many folks do great for 100 jumps just to get broken/killed on jump #101 "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Just try and keep that attitude. Most people listen till around 70-100 jumps. By 300 jumps they think know everything and will not listen. 500-1000 they have some knowledge and they start to listen again. Its normal....But I am sick of it. I listened to everyone when I had 300 jumps. I have had so many 300 jump wonders tell me to shut up and they know what they are doing it really gets old. I have started walking up to ther ones that didn't listen right after they get hurt and ask "Feel stupid? Wish you would have listened?" For this they call me an asshole.....But they could have prevented it by not being an idiot. Here is a hint...One that has worked for me for a long time....When I guy with much more experience walks up and tells you something....Fucking listen. It might have something to do with the fact that when I was comming up most folks didn't give advice to the new guys....Today it seems like most try...But get blown off...I kinda understand why the old guys when I was new didn't try to help much.They probley got blown off so much and fiqured "Screw em". "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Ya know how it works.... When the US decided to leave Englands rule...It was a revolution. And I think most Americans are glad for it. However when the South wanted to leave it was bad. History is like that. Yes, I support people who fight against the people who wish me harm....And if the situation changes....Then so will my support. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Tom....I think you would agree I am the same in real life as here. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Yep, but admit thats why you got it...Not the old story that you are afraid the "other guy" is going to knock you out. I have no problem with them... I have a problem with peoples attitudes about them..And people relying on them. If you can admit that you have it incase you screw up...I don't have a problem. But the simple fact is that most say its to save them from the other guy...And the facts show that MOST saves the guy was awake, and just screwed up. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Yes, but if you look at the CYPRES saves page...(I don't have it bookmarked I am out of town working) you will see that most "saves" are just errors on the part of the jumper...And that they were not knocked out. But its uncool to admit that you might screw up, so people latch on to the knocked out story. Yes it does happen, but MOST saves are from a person just screwing up "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Ypu didn't get knocked out, and you really don't know if you were close or not. I have been knocked out (kickboxing & boxing when I had to spar a heavyweight which I am not) And when I did get knocked out (Twice) I had no idea what the hell happened. One minute Im standing...the next Im waking up. But my point is simply that eveyone uses the "I have one in case I am knocked out"...but if you look at the CYPRES saves...VERY few are people who were knocked out....Most just did something stupid. Im human, so I know I can screw up...I have one in case I do. But I will also jump without one, and I don't do jumps I would not do without it if I have one. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

No he understands that most people "saved" by a CYPRES just flat out screwed up. Its uncool to say "I'm getting a CYPRESS in case I do something stupid that should have killed me." It's much cooler to say you are getting it incase SOMEONE ELSE screws up and kills you. But the simple fact is that there have been very few CYPRES saves for someone getting knocked out by someone else. I have a CYPRES in case I do something stupid. I don't lie to myself. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

If she has a license its her right.... I ahve learned one thing and that is you can't make people do what you think they should. New skydivers are always trying to get whuffos to jump and they just get pissed off at them. I try to keep people safe under canopy...And they just get pissed at me (Until they hook it in and tell me they wish they had listened). She is just gonna get mad at you and stop listening to you. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Yep I feel that way alot these days. Its really just getting sick of snot nosed kids with 100 jumps who know it all and will not listen to anyone else. Well when you consider that most people don't stay in the sport more than 3 years. Life happens. People get married, divorced, have kids, get new jobs, have friends die...Just get sick of the bull shit. Found a new hobby that I do atleast one day a weekend. I still jump, but not as much as I did. Last year I really only did team jumps and a handful of tandems. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

OK its still not going to speed up if you lessen the angle of attack of the wing. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

You didn't die...you did fine. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Does Dave know about this? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

If you use the risers to flatten the glide, it will not speed up. It will slow down. If I was in a Cessna 150 and the engine goes out. Once I reach my best glide (Which BTW is what a canopy is lined at) if I pull up more I will not speed up. I will slow down. I will also not make any more distance across the ground. Same with a canopy. If you are backing up: 1. Turn into the wind, DON'T spiral. You will end up losing much more distance with every spiral. 2. Try to locate a landing area behind you and make your way to it. 3. You can try FRONT risers, but I bet most people can't hold the front risers long enough under a big canopy to make much progress. Brakes are rear risers will slow your forward speed, and that is the opposite of what you want. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

There is ONE emergency procedure for a cut away. There are two parts. Pull the cut away then PULL THE RESERVE! This guy is stupid. He relyed on an RSL. He is a Darwin award canidate. God: Why did you die? Guy: I thought my RSL would work. God: An RSL is a backup right? Guy: Yeah, but it was not hooked up this jump. God: Then why did you rely on it?.....Dumbass! You should have pulled the reserve before this point anyway. It makes sense for EVERYONE to pull both handles. An RSL is a back up....Thats like saying he should just wait for the CYPRES to fire if the RSL is not hooked up. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Its been said before, but. Your primary should be your eyes. Learn to judge altitude with your eyes. If you are doing a solo. Look for the group in front of you to open. You can pull when they do. If you are the first out (Why you would be the first out is beyond me) and you have no idea what altitude you are at...Pull Give a big ass wave off. When the ground rush starts you are already low. If you are with a group. Use the altimeters of the group, and track off when they do. Track till you are clear and pull. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Im still waiting for someone to give me a better indicator of skill that can be used without knowing the person personally. You can't give every person you meet a checkout dive, and a canopy test. But the number of jumps is a very good indicator of MOST peoples skill levels. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Skydiver relationships are just like other relationships.... Some work, some don't...most don't. The thing is this is a very small community and its seems like everyone has dated everyone else. Hell, I have dated 3 women that post here. And I don't even want to count the women I have dated from my home DZ. I had a hard time dating whuffos...And at times hard times dating jumpers. Even ones that were into the same things I am into... "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I joined many years ago March 2001. I didn't post until Oct 2002. One of the reasons I started to post was to try and give knowledge. The other (and the main reason) was to try and prevent 100 jump wonders from giving out the wrong knowledge. There is a 100 jump wonder right now giving advice in the Incident section....The funny thing is this person is giving canopy advice but has been kicked off of two DZ's for bad canopy control. It took 3 posts for them to admit they only have less than 100 jumps, but they were arguing with someone with 1400 jumps. It amazes me how people who are not qualified try to give advice. It also amazes me how people ask for advice here and not at their DZ. At your DZ you know who is skilled and qualified...Here all you know is how many posts a person has....They can claim as many jumps as they want...And I know several folks here that have MUCH less experience than they claim. I try like hell to stay out of TB....But posts like this pull me in. I personally think that unless you are an instructor you should not give advice....No matter how well intended it is. Hell, I don't other instructors giving advice to my students. So Im here to try and keep people from giving bad advice, while trying to give good advice and let people learn from my experiences and mistakes. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

OK, but you are the first to point out when someone says something that could be meant one way and you take it another. Or you just point out spelling errors. Fact is that that person WOULD be qualified, and even the USPA makes it so he could jump with a non licensed jumper. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

The FAA sets the standards that are REQUIRED. Follow them and you can tell the USPA to kiss your butt. So that guy would be qualified. Hell you are qualified to teach a first jump course according to the FAA. The coach rating is a joke..The USPA is a joke. USPA is not law. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334