Ron

I have had several such conversations...All seemed to feel they were "Born Gay". But I tend to not accept that. Most also had other factors in their lives that could very well have influenced the choice they made. Nature vs Nurture...Thats a damn fine question. I tend to side with nurture. I like to think people have a choice in their lives. If I were to believe that homosexuals were born that way I would have to also believe that other personality traits were also born into people. Laziness, criminal tendencies...ect. I tend to think that the way a person is raised is the major factor on how they are as adults. But if you ask many people who have certain tendencies they will claim they were just "Born" that way. Since the factors that influenced those choices were so strong and so deeply in them, that they can't think they chose that path. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

So you have no PROOF, but make that claim? I see. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

My question was to Bill when he said Gay parents make better parents. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Got anything to back that up? Or are you just spouting crap that you think sounds good? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Hi! Nope. From other threads where you have slammed him. You claim that we are not as smart as this woman, therefore we should not question her. Unless you can provide proff of higher education than an MBA you should not question Bush. Simple huh? She is saying that AIDS was created to kill Blacks. She has no proof and is using a Nobel prize to tout nonsense. And you are buying it. I would tend to believe the Dr's that are looking into the issue of AIDS over some lady that got a prize for planting trees. Your opinion only....I find it funny that she is above reproach from anyone, but you feel free to criticize Bush. I see a double standard...And that is a pet peeve of mine. You say we should not criticize this woman, but you feel free to criticize Bush and others for their opinions. That is about as double standard as you can get. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

She claimed that Aids was created to kill Blacks. She has no proof of that, and she has no special knowledge of that area like Michelle said. Getting a bunch of trees planted does NOT make her an expert on anything else. Getting a Nobel does NOT make her an expert on anything out side of the area she got it in. Some would say a Nobel is a load of crap...I mean Arafat got one for fricken PEACE of all things. Being courageous doe not make ones opinion of an area they know nothing about mean anything. We have all the right to criticize her ideas if that are that lame. If you have to be smarter or more educated to criticize someone...Before you slam Bush again I would like to see your MBA or higher degree from a well respected University. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

when the Anti-Gun crowd gets people over here to turn in weapons it is considered "progress" to them. I see people turning in weapons that would be used against our service men and women as progress. You may disagree. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/10/11/iraq.main/index.html Progress in Iraq. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/10/06/iraq.wmd.un.vouchers.ap/index.html NEW YORK (AP) -- The top U.S. arms inspector has accused the former head of the $60 billion U.N. oil-for-food program of accepting bribes in the form of vouchers for Iraqi oil sales from Saddam Hussein's government. The report by Charles Duelfer, head of the Iraq Survey Group, alleges the Iraqi government manipulated the U.N. program from 1996 to 2003 in order to acquire billions of dollars in illicit gains and to import illegal goods, including acquiring parts for missile systems. The alleged schemes included an Iraqi system for allocating lucrative oil vouchers, which permitted recipients to purchase certain amounts of oil at a profit. Benon Sevan, the former chief of the U.N. program, is among dozens of people who allegedly received the vouchers, according to the report, which said Saddam personally approved the list. The secret voucher program was dominated by Russian, French and Chinese recipients, in that order, with Saddam spreading the wealth widely to prominent business men, politicians, foreign government ministries and political parties, the report said. The report names former French Interior Minister Charles Pasqua, Indonesian president Megawati Sukarnoputri, and the Russian radical political figure Vladimir Zhirinovsky as voucher recipients, for example, and other foreign governments range from Yemen to Namibia. The governments of Jordan, Syria, Turkey and Egypt did a brisk illicit oil trade with Iraq as well -- more than $8 billion from 1991 until 2003, the report said. "These governments were full parties to all aspects of Iraq's unauthorized oil exports and imports," it said. The officials whose names have emerged in the face of multiple ongoing investigations of corruption in the U.N. oil-for-food program have previously denied wrongdoing. The program was designed to allow limited oil sales to pay for humanitarian goods. Asked about the fresh allegations against Sevan, U.N. spokesman Fred Eckhard said the organization wouldn't talk about specifics and noted Paul Volcker, the former chief of the U.S. Federal Reserve, was conducting an independent investigation at the U.N.'s request. "We are not going to comment on any specific allegation against Mr. Sevan or anyone else," Eckhard said. "This is in the hands of Paul Volcker. We are cooperating with him fully. Benon Sevan is cooperating with him fully, and we will wait for Volcker's judgment. Benon, meanwhile, stands by his statement that he's done nothing wrong." According to the Duelfer report, which got its information from the former Iraqi oil ministry, Sevan allegedly received vouchers for 7.3 million barrels of oil through various companies and representatives recommended to Iraqi ministries by Sevan. The financial take would have been in the range of $700,000 to $2 million, depending on oil prices. Critics of the oil-for-food program and U.S. congressional investigators have long alleged that administration of the program was rife with corruption and failed to prevent illicit business deals and massive kickbacks to the Iraqi government. The report said, "Saddam was able to subvert the UN OFF (oil-for-food) program to generate an estimated $1.7 billion in revenue outside U.N. control from 1997-2003." And it said the voucher program, "provided Saddam with a useful method of rewarding countries, organizations and individuals willing to cooperate with Iraq to subvert U.N. sanctions." "Once the oil for food program began, it provided all kind of levers for him (Saddam) to manipulate his way out of sanctions," Duelfer told Congress on Wednesday. Congressional investigators praised Duelfer's report. "Mr. Duelfer's conclusions show the full breadth of Saddam Hussein's corruption and manipulation of the U.N. Oil for Food program," said Henry Hyde, R-Ill., who chairs the House International Relations Committee. Reports that Sevan had received oil vouchers first emerged in January when the Iraqi daily Al-Mada newspaper published a list of alleged recipients. But Duelfer's report provides new details and a new degree of credibility. In April, the United Nations appointed Volcker to head the independent investigation of the growing scandal. Four congressional panels have also been investigating the corruption and accusations that Saddam used leverage from the program to influence foreign governments and particularly members of the Security Council, who would vote whether to maintain sanctions. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Showing the tapes from his TESTIMONY to CONGRESS is not a political statment. It is showing what someone has done. Fact is it is a matter of record. The timing of it may bother you...But then again it should. It makes your man look stupid. It is NOT a politcial ad. It is not an ad for one canidate. It is as fair to air it as it was for Moore to call F911 a "Documentry". Nope, but if Moore of Sorros could have, they would have. I don't agree. It would depend on the CONTENT of the program. If it was as biased and lie ridden as F911, then I would agree. If it is a simple relplaying of sKerry's testimony to Congress (That is a matter of public record) and some comentary on it...then I think its fair. You will not becasue it makes your man look stupid. Hey, I didn't think F911 should have been allowed....But you did. You don't think this should be allowed...I do. Fair is fair. I do like your double standard however....It's kinda funny to watch you guys who supported F911 squirm at this news. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

what about Moore abusing his power? Yeah, that works great. No such thing as free speech in Russia, and you want that here also? I can't see how you guys can defend Moveon, and F911, but try and slam this....Sad really. It is a big double standard you are using. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Maybe not...But when Moore released F911 you guys were all about his right to do that. And you were right he should be allowed to do it. And yes, I even saw it. So, this should also be allowed. It is Sinclairs right to do it...Just like Sorros can have Moveon.org. You can be FOR free speech or AGAINST it. Not for it when it suits you but against it when you don't like it. Thats their business. I would not worry about it much if I were you unless you have stock in the company. You are going to have to find a better argument than that to condem this action when you defended Moore. BTW are you going to watch it? Are you going to watch Ferienhype 911? A Major motion picture, that was very anti-Bush, labled as a "Documentry". And a DVD release is not the same thing...Not even close. You can't tout F911 as a right, but blame others for doing the same thing. It is Sinclairs right to do as he sees fit with his company...Don't like it? Sell your stock. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

CiC: Commander in Chief...Military name for the President. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Maybe, but in your eyes being a war criminal IS exactly what the Nation needs in a CiC "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

cool fair is fair. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

No, National parks are Government owned and for our use. WE don't own them....Unless you have a deed hidden somewhere. Ask Kallend...He has played with one. I have jumped Military Aircraft, and used the Military's wind tunnel while I was not in. BS we needed Bombs to win....We just did not have to deploy them...But we needed them. We never really have anything to talk about. You have a good weekend also. Enjoy jumping at a DZ that exists to MAKE money, and enjoy spending the money you made working in a CAPITALIST company. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Close, but not right....Communism is defined as "A theoretical economic system characterized by the collective ownership of ALL property." The Government owns the Parks, and they let us use them. Just like the Government owns the Aircraft Carriers and the weapons in the Military. Yes do you have proof? Don't bring Nukes into this, we had them before. There were other methods to deploy them than ICBM's. SALT II removed short range missles. Those were a bigger fear than ICBM's. So did Iraq. And SH wanted to push Islam to all places as well. I find it funny that you cry about the USSR, but didn't sweat Iraq and that you say Iraq was wrong. I don't see much of a difference. But you still ahve not PROVEN anything...Just like always. And you seem to ignore that the best parts of this country are CAPITALISTIC, and you enjoy those while trying to eliminate them by moving this country into communism. All the while crying about how bad capitalism is...While you benefit from it. Fine by me...Like I said get rid of all your capitalistic "trappings" and I'll stop using the "socialistic" things you claim. I'll be better off. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Some say Karma got them for taking a WORLD CLASS skydiver and putting him in Advanced in the first place. The USPA used to have a rule about that; they changed it against the majority of competitiors wishes to allow PC's. Its a shame that the were DQ'ed. I have had it happen to me. I think that was wrong. I don't think anyone on the team tried to pull a fast one and register illegally. They performed quite well and should be proud of the average they had. However, they did break the rules and Scott Smith ruled (rightfully) with a heavy hand in this case and against ICE. I have been told both that they knew they were illegal, and that it was a mistake. I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt. I would have prefered both teams to have been allowed to change over to guest teams. I don't think anyone tried to pull off a lie. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Would you loan your equipment to a guy that you don't know? The real question is why they didn't ride the plane down. The answer is that those guys were doing what they thought was the best answer...And it was. They had a video issue and they had a video guy that could film them. In MOST competitions (FSL,CaSL,SSL, Valentines Meet, Shamrock Showdown, Karp Cup..ect) that would have been fine. However since it was the Nationals it was not allowed. Shame really, Pete and the boys had no ill intent. They just got caught up in trying to make it happen. Still in the letter of the law they were wrong and Scott Smith did his job. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

You want socalist health care. The Constitution says nothing about health care. You can take that as a complement if ya like....But your communistic ways will never work in the US. Got proof? Oh no you don't you just want to make big claims that you can't prove...Like always. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Gee I don't see anything about being socalist.... I don't see anything about giving away the farm to some lazy people. I don't see anything about giving everyone the same health care. It says PROMOTE THE GENERAL WELFARE. That does not say provide welfare. It can be read to allow people the ability to advance through hard work. But you would rather give away what people work hard for. You are a typical liberal. And the FAA is doing a great job....Or the DOT, or the VA hospitals. I don't see a need for the space program. If it is not going to make money, why waste it? Just cause we can? That time is past. Tell ya what, I'll quit using those things if you quit using anything Captalistic...So first quit your job and sell off any stocks you own. Let me know when you get all that done OK? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Or they are lying....Who would think that someone would lie on this website? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

So you DO want the US to be socialist! Its a shame the founding fathers did not agree with you. NOTHING the Government runs, runs well. I may work, but it in not efficient. Space Program...Can and is being done cheaper by civilians. Police...Scandals and corruption. I can give you the Interstate Roads. Go give your vote to the Socialist Part Bill...I would prefer I do my part in keeping the country Democratic. How are you going to take from those unwilling to work Bill? What you are really wanting is to take from those that do work so those that don't want to work do not have to work. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Cheney killed Edwards. Cheney said Uh a few to many times for me. Edwards was a very good speaker. But on the topices....Cheney killed Edwards. I'm glad someone finally brought up how Edwards made his money by taking Dr's. to court, but claims that lawsuits are a problem in the medical world....Well jackass YOU are PART of the problem. Cheney had real stances on the issues.... Edwards just spouted "We have a plan" I LOVED how Cheney called Edwards on the carpet for Kerry's "Plan" to create a coalition by calling current members "Coerced". Also the fact that France will not send troops pretty much blows that plan away. Edwards response? "Well, give us a try". "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Bill just admit you want the US to become socalist. You would rather take from those that work hard to give to those who don't. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334