Ron

Sounds like he is saying that they are looking into it...And having had issues "looked into " before...They do nothing. He is saying what I said...Sue them. Call the BBB. The USPA will do nothing. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

They will simply do nothing. That company is bringing people into the sport. Those people might join the USPA. The USPA is not about to get involved with legal issues such as these. Plus the USPA has no real power over anything. The only thing they could do is ASK group member DZ's not to honor them. But then that would push Tandems to non-USPA centers and you would find some centers getting upset about the USPA telling them not to take business. The USPA will do nothing. If they use your copyrighted material....Sue them. If they have your DZ listed and you don't want to be...Sue them. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Maybe, but since I trust the translation, and I don't want to make a REALLY Long Distance call to Attempt to "Freckin Ze Dutch"....I'll just wait. Hell we have enough problems trying to get our kids to speak "real" English...."You down wit dat dawg?" Plus I DID take another language....But if I think I could have problems calling Germany and trying to get an English speaker....Wait till I call Germany and speak broken Spanish to them "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

OK, I don't speak German...So what could would calling them be? I trust the translation. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

That was a GREAT question. A really neat thing for the caompany to do is build a few without the winglets and let people jump BOTH. If they winglets really do that much...Then that would be a selling point that you could show the customer. I trust Beezy, so if he says they do it...I bet they do, plus the theory is sound. But what a great marketing device. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

My feelings exactly....Anyone that stupid needs a CYPRES. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Tampa Bay Metro Hash House Harriers The Jolly Roger H3 "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Sorry in FL we don't tend to have sub-freezing temps...Hurricanes yes, freezing temps no. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Yeah the only way to reduce parasitic drag is to reduce area that is exposed. What do you think of them? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Winglets when they disrupt the vorticies also have the benefit of reducing drag... The theory is sound, I have not jumped a canopy like that (Nitron, Jallapino..ect) but some swear by them. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

If you took out the windchill factor. And I did say you need an insulator. Edit to add: Try this experiment. Put on a pair of latex gloves inside in the noramal temp...Did your hands get hot? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Ya know, for those that are nervious to post your story for feer of being yelled at....Or judged. If you want, you can PM them to me, and I will post them...No one will know who sent me the PM, and I will not judge you. If you don't trust me, please send them to someone else, and have them post it. These stories and experiences are THE best tools for learning, and I would hate to have someone miss the lesson. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Well it's more like my drinking club has a running problem. Did a "hash run" last night. For those that know..."On-On" "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Latex is not insulating in the way you think. What happens is the neoprene traps water. Your body heats this water,and by not allowing a rapid exchange of water around your body you stay warm...Think about a cars radiator in reverse. A cars radiator circulates water to transfer heat from the block to a radiator where it is dispelled into the air. A wetsuit traps this warm water and does not let it transfer the heat to the surrounding water..Thereby keeping you warm. 100% correct. You would also need an insulator (Such as Nueman winter gloves) for it to be warm. And both you and Andy have both been corrcect that this will not work for an extended period of time, and in fact could be worse in the long run. One thing you don't have SCUBA diving is wind chill. And wind chill is a very quick way to drop the temperature of an object. The Latex will block the wind. Like I said before it is not that big of a deal. It works well enough for some, not well enough for others. Do what works for you. I have a normal recomendation that I give to people when they ask about gear. "Look around your DZ and see what others are doing" There is no reason for you to reinvent the wheel. If the folks at your DZ are wearing these gloves Andy and CH are talking about...And they have been doing it a while it might be safe. I would ask all of those that have new gloves they want to tryout, or even the same gloves that everyone else is wearing....Talk to an Instructor about them, do practice pulls with them. I wear gloves on almost every jump, and have since around 30 jumps.....I still will not wear gloves on Tandems since I only have around 100 Tandem jumps...And Tandems have a lot of handles in crazy places. Look around, make a choice, talk to an instructor you trust. But really please cut off any hooks or latches...They are not needed and can just cause a problem. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Wetsuits work by trapping water near the body and not letting it get away. The body heats that water, and since it stays put it keeps you warm. Water is a conductor of heat at something like 20 times better than air. You would be cold if you allowed the water next to your body to be replaced by cold water. Drysuits work better by being a better barrier to the water. (NAUI Master rated) A good pair of gloves with a pair of latex gloves under them provide both Insulation and protects against windchill. This set up cannot be used for a long time due to not wicking away moisture as you and others have said. Over time that moisture will start to get cold. So the trick is to not wear them all day. Maybe not, but the cost to try it is next to nothing. I also am worried that some folks will try things that are not safe....I remember one time a guy showed up at the DZ with a pair of ski MITTENS. He was unable to feel the pilot chute and ended up pulling his reserve. Thank God this was before pillow reserve handles were the rage. This guy had a problem pulling the reserve and was only able to do it by hooking his mitten through the "D" ring. I am warry anytime a jumper comes out with a "new" anything. In the case above it only ended with a reserve ride. Another time a guy showed up with a pair of gloves that had a "hook" to keep them together. When we saw this we made him do some practice pulls. Sure enough the little plastic hook caught on his leg strap on one of the pulls. He was unable to get it to release. After we cut the hook off they were fine. No matter what you do decide to do, check with an Instructor you trust. New things often hide new problems. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Zhills has a rocking Christmas boogie. You can contact Pip Redvers about renting a trailer from him fairly cheap. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I have discovered: A: Just cause one person does not agree does not mean it is wrong. Often just because an accepted practice didn't work for that ONE person does not mean its a bad practice. Things become prevailing opinions often because they work for MOST people. B: The latex covers are simple, easy to use, cheap, and work. The BEST answer is still move to FL. Barring that they should try the cheap, easy to use, and works for most people, latex liners before they spend money on yet another set of gloves that may or may not work for them....Why reinvent the wheel? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

This idea, or ideas like this one have been kicked around a lot. Some shooting sports use these types of rankings. They define the Advanced class as being a % of the Pro/Open class. In some cases they wait till the end of the meet to divide the rankings...In essence you all compete in open, and then they come in and seperate the classes based on performance. I don't like that since it takes some of the competition out of it. I don't like it...Let me explain why. Lets say that you, Ari, Ben, and Steve decide to get together and train like hell. You do 300 jumps and are really kicking ass. The meet is a good one for you and you are killing the competition...Good for you. You did good, trained hard, you get the medals. I would hate for you to suddenly be "kicked up" to have to compete against Airspeed. Besides it is SO easy to do one of these two things: 1. Not allow anyone with a higher medal to step down. 2. Get rid of the move up rule, and allow PC teams...Thereby creating a weekend warrior class. The only problem I see with the current system is PD Blue (20 avg), Airspeed Blue (16), Perris Skoolboyz (16.4), Hell even this years Knights team (19.9) (if they had a different Alternate), or Fastrak (17.1) could go compete in Advanced next year, but Mojo (13.6) , Perris Synchronicity (15.3), Thunder (14.0) could not due to each team having two members who have an Advanced Gold. If you adopt the no higher medalists can step down it allows guys like you, Ari, Ben, and Scott to train like hell, kick ass, and win. It's fair. Thats why I like the idea of adopting the no higher medalists can step down rule. Teams that train like hell and blow the other same class of teams out of the water still can win. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

#1 move to FL. I wear Neumans on every jump but tandems. If it gets cold in FL...I don't tend to jump. If I have to jump, I put a latex surgical glove on under my Neumans. Andyman has a point about it not beinga good idea to wear a latex glove that will trap the moisture...However, it does work. The trick is not to wear them the whole ride up. Simply put them on at the same time you normaly start getting ready. It blocks the wind quite well, and will keep your hands warm. Before people start saying I don't know cold... lived in IL, Tn...ect and jumped in the snow many times... I took my own advice and then moved to FL... Try it, you will like it. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Randy...when did you become a skydiver? Now championship go-cart driver...yes. Seriously, Tandems can be a good introduction to skydiving. And like Randy said you never know how someone will react to freefall. I had to do a tandem for my first jump before my AFF jump (which I never did since the DZ was closed so much)...Then I went to a SL program and I found it much easier due to the tandem. I don't think its a bad idea. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Still does not make it safe. I wonder how many people have burned in thinking "It will open"? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

That sounds interesting.....I would like to see that set up. I would however be afraid that someone (like me) could try to do that and really screw up the system making a real problem. Hell I like low hop n pops....so that would not work with me...However, it would work with the new bunch of otter babies out there. I think EVERYONE should do a few hop n pops from the min pull altitude for the license they have....Just for practice for emergency exits. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Yes to get a tandem rating you have to ride front, and you have to have a person with at least 100 jumps ride front on several jumps. My issue is not with that but MAKING someone do it... It is not a regular skydive and it puts them at a higher risk of injury....that is my issue. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Please give an example, this seems confusing....Unless you ment the Reserve loop, and that only works on a few rigs....A Jav will cut the loop even if you pulled the reserve. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Thats not a good idea since it is increasing the risk many times over. A Tandem is not a normal skydive and it is putting one extra person in harms way...And for what? To teach a lesson? Not bad, but I still don't see a problem with just grounding them. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334