Ron

That would be like him filling the bath tub and giving her the idea. If he just went to the store and she filled the tub and made the choice he didn't commit a crime. Was he stupid? Yeah, but he did not commit a crime. Where does that line of reasoning end? Is the Church responsible for saying that only the innocent go to heaven? Is the Doc at fault for not making her have an abortion? The faut ends with her. Other factors were in play, but NONE of the others in this told her, or helped her to kill her children. She did that all her own. The others will be looked at, but no one else held the children under water till they stopped moving. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

what if I just left him with it.... Its not like the husband drew the bath water "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Bravo. Maybe he could have given more "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

If you had asked a year ago...CYPRES2 Now I don't think it matters since Vigil has the big bugs worked out. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Best building and Grounds: Chicago. Best Vibe: Z-hills Best for training: DeLand and Eloy after the tunnel "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

DeLand known the World over as a training place for many years. Z-Hills known as a boogie capital for 25 years "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

51% of Americans disagree. You still claiming that? Recount after recount proved him the winner and the rest whiners. He still is the President. Move on. How much did Moore give? I mean he made more than Bush last year. What about Kerry? He is worth more and made more than Bush. (Actually if Kerry planned on running again a large donation would help him tons....I don't think he is running again which is why he has not given anything publicly IMO) Promise? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

If I leave a alcoholic alone in a house with a bottle of Jack, is it my fault if he drinks it and drives? He should have known better. But he did not drown his 5 children. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Well, maybe you should have given more if you feel so strong about it. I did not give as much in total dollars of %. I also say it's none of your business. (see no excuses) "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I see again you are just looking to place blame on someone else. If the FAA screwed up thr FAA is at fault. If NORAD screwed up then NORAD is at fault. If the Pilots screwed up, they are at fault. You just like to blame others. You REALLY like to blame President Bush. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

It was made PUBLIC to shut up people like you. Big difference. Your opinon on the size not being enough and why he did it. Did you give as much as he did in either dollars or % of yearly income? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

OK so you are claiming that Bush ahd a plan, but others failed to do it correctly. So you don't see Bush at fault? I mean he had a plan and all according to you. Not his fault the FAA, NORAD, and the pilots screwed up. According to your own info it was not Bush's fault.... But you claimed it was earlier? Pick a stance and stay on topic and on one side please. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Pane stewarts palne also was in flight for monre than one hour when it was intercepted. 9/11 there was 45 min between the first and last brash, and multiple targets. Get over it. It was Clintons plan. Like I said I dont expect a new President to change all the plans in less than 9 mths. Move on. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Bullshit what he gives is none of your business. 51% of the voters think he was the better man. Get over it. I bet he did it to shut up people like you that claim the US was not doing enough, and that he was not doing enough. Still the amount he gave or if it was enough is not your call. Move on. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

No it would be murder. But don't confuse a medical condition that made it so I passed and was unable to do anything with a active roll in killing someone. She didn't not save her kids, or pass out and them die of neglect. she choose to kill them. She made an effort to kill them, don't confuse being knocked out with actively killing them. That is a lame attempt to avoid answering a question that would condem your argument. Would you charge Hitler with his crimes, or let him go? If you don't feel like answering that don't both answering me again. No, I said what if the guy had a mental problem due to being molested as a child...If he had documented evidence of mental problems and the manifestation of those problems was he felt a need to rape, would you let him off the hoook for his crime? But alcoholism is a mental disease? Its not his fault he was abused and turned to alcohol. We knew he had the problem, but he could just not stop drinking...so is it his fault? If he runs over a kid when he is drunk is that his fault? And Andrea made the choice to kill all 5 of her kids in the tub. She made a choice just like the alcoholic did. They both had mental problems that made it so they made that choice. But they are both still guilty. You keep acing like we don't have the knowledge you do. you are wrong. I just don't see a mental problem as an excuse to commit a crime. Who said I have a low opinon of you? I don't agree with you, but that is not the same. Dont' confuse me not agreeing with you with not liking you. I don't know you, so I can't make a choice if I like you or not. I can say I don't agree with you. Please try and keep the two seperate. You keep saying that. I do know the differences. I just don't buy that a person with a mental problem should not pay for the crimes they commit. She mad e achoice to kill her kids. Is a guy that drank to much and shoots someone in anger able to claim that he was not in his right mind when he did it? Alcohol changes the way the brain thinks. Bad ideas seem to be good ideas. But I bet if I got pissed tonight and took a gun and shot someone I would not get off casue I was drunk. But I was not able to think clearly since my thought process was changed due to the alcohol. Same thing. I would still be guilty, just like she is. To say it was due to the alcohol while maybe true...Is still no excuse. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Good question. Really good. In fact the best comparison yet. Yes, I would give him a ticket. He broke the law. Being blind is not an excuse for breaking the law. Now I would not shoot him on the spot, but we don't shoot jaywalkers anyway. The judge would then have a chance to decide what punishment if any the blind guy should recieve. See he is a danger to himself and you and I. If I swerve to miss him and crash is it his fault or mine? What if the blind guy says "I am blind I will do as I please since it's not my fault". Would you accept that? Knowing he could do it again since he saw no reason why it was wrong, do you think that he should be allowed to do as he pleases no matter the risk it will put on you and I? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Then if you feel that way how about putting the rest of my remarks in? I bet very few gave even 1%. And its none of your business how much he gave. Get over it. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

No, I am saying I screwed up. Who is being creative with the editing now? Bush had an issue. It was small threat and we had a plan in place...(As proved by your Stewart story). It did not work well. You want to blame someone? Blame Clinton for not having a better plan when he had the WH for 8 years. Afetr all it was his plan that failed on 9/11, not Bush's. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Bull shit, she still choose to kill them. Like I said I think anyone that kills someone is sick in the head. That does not mean I don't think they are guilty of a crime. Simple fact, she killed her children. Like I said is a rapist guilty of rape if he was molested as a child? Is an alcoholic guilty if he gets drunk and kills someone? Was Hitler guilty of genocide? Please answer how these are different than this? She is also a murderer...End of Story. You say two opposite things in the same sentance. She can be held responsible. She did it. To say otherwise is using a mental illness as an an excuse. Yes. If I fly knowing I might go into a Coma I would be guilty of neglect. I would be charged. I don't use diabeties as an excuse. You always say that but you don't know what I do or don't know. A mental disease is not an excuse to kill and get away with it. I am still waiting to hear what you say about Hitler. Most think he was insane...Was he guilty? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

OK ya got me there. I was wrong in my timeline. See how a person can admit when they are wrong and face up to it? I didn't blame anyone but myself... "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Why do you want me to pay for your school when you are unwilling to work? Hell, lets assume it was only 1% of his salary. I bet moast didn't even do that. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Not an attack, a statement. I have every right to amke any claim I wish. If I choose not to spend hours looking for a sentance in a book it is my right as well. I didn't start it, I made a statement. He turned it into a shouting match, and you continue it. I can live with that. It's you and him that got all upset about it. But yet you are still here? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Ask Clinton "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

They don't fall into the Geneva Conventions. It's legal. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I have not mislead anything. Fromt he start you said that, but its not true. You are unwilling to work. now you have your reasons, but it still boils donw to you not wanting to work. You blame locals, the economy, school squedule...everything but you not wanting to do it. You want those that do work to pay for your health care and education since you don't want to work....Instead of accepting responsibility you blame society. You even blame the military for screwing you out of your GI bill, not your role in the problem. You don't want to accept resposibility for your actions. You don't want to pay the price of your dreams and would rather me pay for you to live your dream. On this you are correct. Until you can admit that it is your fault for your life, and your ability to make it better not someone else's. Until you realize that it is no one else's job or responsibilty to make it so you can live your dream...We have nothing to talk about. Like I have said...go fish. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334