Ron

Well the President has to be protected. All in all its a good thing, maybe a bit to large, but since taxpayers are not paying for it who cares.... Oh right you do since its a chance to bash the US. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Sometimes ya gotta love this guy. Does not speak much, but when he does..... "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I agree, but do you think its not fucked up that the Best Skydivers in the world drive used cars while the an Average player in another sport (say tennis) drives a BMW? Just because it is reality does not mean it does not suck. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

FedEx gets the first cargo model Aug 08. They have 10 ordered and an option for 10 more. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Bigun said it pretty well. I have friends that are World Champions...And I make SO much more than they make. I think its a shame that the best our sport has to offer does not live very well while a bench warmer in Baseball makes millions. They deserve something for the effort they put out...I was talking to Trinko once and asked him if it was worth it. He said it sucked that him winning a World Champoinship was not worth anything outside of a DZ....But that it was till worth it. It's a shame that some of the Worlds Best end up driving a taxi. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Yes, it was also his 4TH Text from his 4th address: It applies today as well. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Isam is about peace "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Cars have a daily useful porpose. I drove to work today, I bet most that read this will drive or ride in a car today. They will need to drive or ride ina car today. I also be less than 1/3 will need to shoot a gun today. Less than 1/3 will choose to shot a gun today. This is non sequitur. Cars have nothing to do with guns. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Hell, I don't know what a tripple lutz is...But if it is Ice Skating...Have you ever Ice skated or roller skated? If so, then you have a frame of reference to how hard a "tripple Lutz" might be. A person who has never solo freefell has no idea how hard a 4 way is. The general public is not as interested as you think they are. Take a tape of skydiving into a bar. It will not stay on the whole tape, unless it is a dead bar. I have TRIED this. I have gone to bars and helped in a Tandem Give aways...Most times the people never show for the jump. Really? Was not there just a recent freefly comp where the rules were made up as they go? Do you know the difference between an NJ, Incomplete Seperation, Incidental Contact in RW? Hell I don't understand all the RW rules and I am a judge. Or you could relate to it since you skysurf. You seem to be ignoring anyone that does not fit into your view of the world. Might I add that many of these folks have been in the sport twice as long as you and have many more jumps. A small hint...When Gareth talks...I tend to listen. I even listen to BillV when its not about politics. CBS has raised some very good points. You just keep saying the same thing over and over like we didn't understand it the first time. We got it...It will not work. It has been tried...Ever heard of Arch Deal? You are being narrow minded by simply saying the same thing over and over and assuming we just don't see the beauty of your plan...We see your plan. We have seen your plan and others fail before. We understand your plan....We don't think it has a snowballs chance. Hell, I think we all wish you the best of luck, but ignoring the advice from people who have been there and done that is just setting yourself up to fail the ways they have on your own. You didn't use those words but you said those ideals...Here are some of them: So if we have tried and lost before, and don't buy into your new shiney plan we are all "short sighted"? Notice the trend here. You and another guy on here both think skydiving could be the best thing since sliced bread. You have 6 years in the sport and 805 jumps. He has 5 years in the sport and 800 jumps. Some of the people who don't think its a good idea: 26 years in the sport 3300 jumps 13 years in the sport 3800 jumps 11 years in the sport 3300 jumps 18 years in the sport 7800 jumps. I think these folks have seen plans like this from stary-eyed folks before. Reference this great thread: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1442524#1442524 You are in #4. I am personally in #7. CBS summed it up really nicely: But in your opinion we are just "short sighted". In this next case you spoke about something and were wrong: Then you go back to insulting people: So if a person wants to get money for his hard work he is a "primma donna"? Anyone that does not buy into your idea needs to "wake up"? And if we don't march to your drum we are labled as "not a team player"? You are the only one with the right answers? You say you are not insulting people...What is this? : And then there is this: This is called Ad Hominem or attacking the person. You attack the "image" of the "type" of peorson who opposed your idea instead of the argument. We are saying your idea while nice will not workk based on the idea. We have given valid reasons why, and many here have been involved in ideas like this before. You choose to ignore us and attack us. I'm done with this. I really wish you luck. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Yes, how did you get so smart? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I disagree. Given the choice of killing someone with a rock or a gun what would you choose? Now if you had to be attacked would you rather be attacked by a guy with a rock, or a guy with a gun? Are you arguing that guns don't make killing easier? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I agree, but are you saying that a gun does not make killing easier? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Dave you are a fat big guy...You already have a natural advantage. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

OK, thats a BASE jump where cutting away and using a reserve is not an option. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Yes, and ham sandwhiches have been reported to kill singers. A crossbow was the 12th centry equal to the handgun. Same premise. If no one had crossbows, then no one would die from them. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

See it would be hard to accidently cut someones head off. Guns make killing easier. Without guns it would be harder to kill someone. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Depends on how good you are. Depends if you are a member of the team, or a hired gun. I expect team members to get paid less than hired guns. If you are a member of the team that means if we get jumpsuits, you get one. We get rigs, you get one. If you are a hired gun, we pay you for your time. Expenses are paid for the camera guy. That does not mean food, it means travel and hotel. If we fly somewhere he stays with us. If he wants his own hotel room/rental car ect he pays for that himself. Most guys charge 15 per jump for teams here in FL. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Very few people accidentally stab someone with a long sword "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

See here are a few problem already. How much are the tires? I did some checking a few mths ago for a class I was in. I compared a Civic Hybrid with a standard Civic. I found that you had to own the Hybrid for 54 mths before the cost of ownership was the same. That is assuming that nothing broke that didn't cost more than noramal. I like the hybrid concept. But some think that they will save money in gas...And they will, but the higher cost of purchase means that it will be 40-60 mths down the road. One could also factor in the extra cost of financing the extra cost of the hybrid and the fact that gas prices may rise or fall. All in all I like the hybrid idea, but it is not the most economic choice like many think. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

You still miss the fact that most people don't care. They don't understand skydiving and they really don't find it interesting for more than a few mins. SOME people enjoy watching it. Even less will enjoy watching skydiving. People can relate to skating or NASCAR...They have no idea about skydiving at all. And most don't care either. The only skydiving they want to see is the stuff that makes "Real TV". VERY narrow minded view. So as long as it fits your agenda its OK. If it does not fit your agenda then they are assholes? If it were so great Xgames would not have dropped skydiving like a rock. It is a small segment of the population, a population that can't relate to it, and will not bother to watchit for more than a few mins. It has been tried and it has failed. Best of luck, but I take offense at you thinking anyone that does not agree with you to be stupid....Ya think it might be becasue we have already gone through this before and seen it fail? Ya think it might be because we are able to look past our love of the sport to look at the real issues? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

If you could get all the guns and make them dissapear the world would be safer. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Good info, but not really what I asked for. Thanks anyway. My question was this....Say you have a Prius. What other (normal) car would be the same type of car? How much less would the normal car cost, and WHEN would the gas savings be greater than the initial extra cost of the car. The Tax break is now 1500, not 2 grand. So lets say the Hybrid costs 21,000. The same type of normal car with about the same equipment might cost 13,000. I am making numbers up here since I don't know what the level of the car is...Does it have leather seating? Does it have a good sound system...ect. 21,000 - 1500 for taxes. 19500 19,500-13,000 = 6500.00 One person claims that they are saving 100/mth. That means it would be 65 mths before the cost of ownership between these two cars would be the same. At 66 mths it would start getting better and better to own the hybrid. That is assuming that the cost of maintenance is the same for both cars. So does anyone know what the cost of a comparable regular car would be? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

So why would they get into it now? I don't see these type of programs with Darts. I don't....People can understand ice skating and dart throwing. I could go throw darts in about 15 mins if I wanted to. I could be skating in less than an hour. I also have already thrown darts, and skated. I just went around my office and asked three questions to people. 1. Have you ice skated? 2. Have you thrown a dart? 3. Have you made a skydive? All said they have thrown darts, most said they have skated one skydives. When I asked them if they would like to do those things....All said they would throw darts, a few think an ice skating trip could be fun (I think I am gonna get stuck organizing one )...No one wants to skydive. We have two Tandem Masters on staff...Know how many people either of us have taken on a jump? NONE. These are PROFESSIONAL video people. They do this for a living. It is their lively hood. I object to you calling them "prima donnas". How would you feel if the work you did was taken by someone else and used to make money? I think you are missing the big picture. Most people don't want to jump, they don't care how much you love it they don't care to know. I don't have any interest in basket weaving, but I know people that LOVE it. I would not cared enough to watch it for more than 10 mins EVER. The same thing about skydiving. Hell I get bored watching skydiving. A whuffo will watch for max 10 mins. Ever notice that skydiving movies don't make it big? People don't care. You have drive, but the reality is that if this sport was for everyone then we would not lose so many students. Quote "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

The Inauguration is but a small part of the cost. People are getting upset at the amount spent, but only a fraction of that is from Tax payers. No, it just seems that you are slamming the event. It seemd if you were trying to tie the entire event as a cost to tax payers when thet is not the fact. Sorry if I took you wrong. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I don't love "W". But given the choice I was given I feel he was better for the job. Every President has had one. It is our only Country wide celebration event. It is not government money. It was raised. Agian a common error. More will be spent than the CITY spends. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334