Ron

I'd love to let you win that...But if I remember correctly the resturant boss was jumping on Aniston for only having 7 pieces. But more flair is always better....Look at Brian, he has 15 pieces of flair. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

1. Load of crap. 2. Still a load of crap. One thing to consider anyway is that with a bigger canopy the flare is less critical. Also with a bigger canopy you can in fact land with half brakes up until flare....I have almost 1,000 jumps on accuracy canopies to back that up. 3. Its flare, not flair as in "7 pieces of flair"-Office Space Reginald said it best...Every WL has things you need to know. The only read "danger" of a high WL is high winds and penetration. Well, in most cases you should not be jumping in winds that are so high that it matters. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I wrote an article for Skydiving years back.....PM me your Email and I will see if I can find it and send it to you. It broke down the whole program day by day. This was 1999 so it will have changed some, but not much. Being at Bragg helps, but slots depend on where you are. Sometimes, unless your MOS needs to be airborne, they will try to make you reup for the slot. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Yeah, did some back fly with my rig on at Bragg....Almost flew right out of the cone as soon as I flipped over on my back. Took some getting used to, but it was not that hard...It was very different and not nearly as fast to move. I felt the entire time I had to almost fight the rig. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I did Service Assurance for 4 years before moving into training. Some companies in the US take it VERY seriously. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I like mine, but it was free. It slim, so I can just slip it into my pocket. The camera sucks, but I would not buy a cell phone for a good camera. All in all its OK, but I am not married to it....If I found a same size phone with another brand I get it. I had a little problem charging mine and a BIG problem with my other Motorola...Like I said, it was free so I took it. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

You think that maybe there is a reason she has been bashed? I mean as someone said on here already that if one person holds an opinion of you, that they could be wrong...But if several hold the same opinion there is a good chance they are correct. Several local jumpers from that area have stated that she "dissed" them when they tried to help. She continues to claim that she was operation with enough instruction, with proper equipment and everything else like the setup to her accident was not a factor in the accident. Canopy choice..Well some DZ's can in fact put students out on such a canopy...But the facts are that most DZ's are not able to do that for various reasons....Even two different students from a very qualified DZ have had two different views on if they got enough attention in that area. Instructor..Well BF in most cases should not teach girfriends. It is a pain in the ass, and many things get skipped. Plus some have said that the Instructor in question was grounded and thats why they went to another DZ. This whole situation reaks of questionable practices. The canopy was ill sized for the container accoring to many. Not having insurance is just another setup that was out of smart operating procedures. This whole accident reaks of questions and errors in normal judgment. Then you add in how she ignored local help and was quick to run to the national media.....More questionable practices. The fact that the locals are not supporting her makes me wonder why...We talk alot about how skydivers support people and its true in most cases...But the strongest support often comes from locals...In this case the locals don't support her and the only people who are don't know her of the situation...........Now in most cases I tend to ignore the local views ince it is normally just a knee jerk defense...But not many times have I seen a local view that does not support them. That makes me wonder. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Sure she has..One thing was she claimed her reserve was a sure thing... I have not jumped without medical insurance...And my GF is grounded right now due to lack of it....Of course she just shelled out the 50 something bucks it will cost to carry Blue Shield, so she will be airborne again soon. 50-60 bucks a mth his cheap for insurance.....Oh, I know some will claim that it is too expensive....Folks, skydiving is expensive...You would be MUCH better suited to get insurance than make THREE jumps. She did infact ignore advice that didn't suit her. She has made skydiving appear much more dangerous. Still nothing that has not been done by the very movies we supported. I don't even harbor her ill will. I will say that it is very stupid and very short sighted to jump without insurance. Pretty common in this sport, but that does not mean it is smart. We all pay when one of our own does stupid stuff. Case in point, Quincy started hating skydivers. She has in fact acted with an entitlement attitude. Plus her attitude to skydivers telling us to basicly shut up is not the way to build bridges in the community. She did something stupid...And when she was told she did something stupid she attacked instead of admitting it. Her first dealings with the press made it seem like she did nothing wrong....Only after she started a shit storm did she ever admit that she might have made a mistake.....By that time she was too busy telling us to shut up for us to care. Through out this she has acted like a spoiled child...She ignored advice she didn't like, claimed to be innocent, and when she finally did admit she had any blame she was throwing a tantrum telling people to shut up. From reports she alienated the local jumpers who tried to help perfering to go national and meet Opra. I have no problem helping people who need it....I would rather help those that are trying to help themselves than the ones that blame others, insult me, and act like I owe them. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

And you make it look good with your complaining? Your posts are pure noise while the rest of us are discussing the issues. Nice attack. But not even close to reality. Not having insurance is THE reason this post is here. If she had insurance then there would be no outrage at her demanding people help her. And like I have said before...You don't have to read any of this if it bothers you. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Ya know the simplest thing you can do is stop reading it.....Why is THIS such a topic for you? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Like it or not its called thread drift. And in this case it is a great topic. There is no point in addressing anything to Shayna...If you even read the first post you would see she has no intention to answer...12 pages later she still has not. If this thread gets one person to get insurance...It is worth more than the time spent on it. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

No, try reading lessons. I blame people who take no responsability for their actions. Those that do stupid things and expect the Government to pick up the mess. I have NO problem with people who need help. I do have a problem with people who do really stupid things and accept no responsibility for their actions. Nope, but your lack of reading comprehension DID. Nice personal attack!!!! Notice I have not attacked you, but you sure did me. If you can't debate without resortion to the third grade...Please don't bother to respond. Nope again you lack the ability to read the written word. I said I think what she did was stupid. I think her running to the media and demanding people help her is fucked up. Her stupid act was bad...Her entitlement attitude is worse. Did Ghandi go around and insult people? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

You want to compare a modern society to the one of 100 years ago? Thats silly at best. 100 years ago people rarely moved 100 miles on a LONG trip. Just last mth I Flew 1,100 miles, 400 miles, back 400 miles then drove 1,100 miles. I need to do that for my job. Thats more travel in one mth than a person 100 years ago would do in a life time. Again in todays society computer knowledge is quickly becoming a need, not a want. The same with transportation. Do you drive to work? Could you get to work without your car? Skydiving unlike driving is 100% not needed. It serves no reason other than recreation. NONE. Skydiving is nothing but enjoyment and it is MUCH more dangerous than normal driving. Again you want to compare like things, compare skydiving to race car driving...BOTH would be stupid to enguage in without insurance. Your attempts to compare driving around town to skydiving is WAY off base. I have answered it before, in fact you even thanked me for answering...so now quit trying to make a lame attempt that I did not. And compare like things to like things. A dangerous hobby like drag racing would be just as stupid to do without insurance as skydiving. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

You say that....Then you say: "The difference is I live and let live and don’t look down on those DIFFERENT from ME!" That sure sounds elitist to me. Kinda proves my point right there. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Do you pay taxes on your goods? I pay taxes and part of those taxes go to people who are not responsible and make the Government pay their bills. YOU said you don't have insurance...Well I do, and my insurance costs go up due to people like you and her that get hurt and don't bother to pay. If you want to take chances with YOUR financial future...Thats fine. But don't expect others to pay for your mistakes. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I have a job. This job pays for my house, medical insurance, hobbies and inverstments. To get to this job I need to drive. I could take a lower paying job, and lose my house...Or I could quit and not work expecting you to pay me....Or I could drive to work since there are not buses in my area. I'l drive and call it a need. Its not like I live in NY and can ride a subway. NOT EVEN CLOSE to the same. One produces a benefit of employment. The other is for recreation. If I can't drive, I might very well lose my job. If I can't skydive...I lose nothing but "fun". BIG DIFFERENCE. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Yep and so will people making stupid mistakes and demanding that others fix the mess they get into. That does not make it right, even if it happens alot. YOU step down off your pedestal and quite trying to act "better" than others and thinking only your way is the right way. People in the know have stated that they were warned, told it was a bad idea...ect...They didn't listen perfering to live it up and not be responsible YOU want to help people who make bad choices without holding them in the slightest bit accountable for their actions?...Thats fine. But don't think for one little second that just because you are fooled and think that you are better since you let stupid people make you pay for their mistakes that it means anything but in your mind. Cool, quit. Fine with me...I'd rather not have to pay for your medical bills. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Teachers rock! "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

AFFI has it 100 correct in post 41 of this thread. Good skydivers are the ones that live without steel in them. I had a buddy, a teammate. He was a tunnel rat and an AMAZING flyer. He had about 900 jumps and I had 2,000 but he could fly circles around me in freefall...No doubt he was better than me. He knew nothing about his gear. He didn't even know how to hook up a three ring. He didn't know what the ribs of a canopy were called. He had a mal and bounced...He died from a simple mal with a perfectly good reserve on his back. Way to often people equate the number of points they can turn, or the cool things they can do on their head as proof of them being better than someone else. Better to me means not dead or injured. If you could physically and emotionally handle more jumps at the same level of performance, you would do better. However, it is only in very rare cases I have seen someone able to do that....More jumps often gets you into what pilots call "The region of reversed command". The more effort you put in the less effect you get. Same thing with team training...Doing to many jumps a day for to many days results in sloppy skydiving. It can help increase your endurance, but it will be sloppy. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Or maybe some people like 4 mths off a year? I worked 12 hours last week, 18 this week...And made good money. How much did you work? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

If you can't see the difference between driving to go to work, school, shopping. Or jumping from a plane for fun...Then there is no point talking about anything. A better comparison would be driving a race car on weekends. That would also be foolish to do without insurance. Again, you are going far off the spectrum with that one. Driving to go to work is way different than driving a racecar. There are three groups in this debate: One group buys into the sport is safe BS, and think they are skilled enough to manage it all the time...So they don't think they need a backup plan such as insurance. Another group is the "You can't tell me what to do, and I am entitlted to free health care from your hard work" side.....Basicly people who refuse to be responsible and want others to pay for their mistakes. The third group is the group I belong to. I want you to be responsible for your actions and not demand that I pay for your stupid decisions. The be ready to own up to the cost of your choices and not demand that I pay for your stupid decisions. Both. If you choose to make stupid choices (and that is your right...even if it is stupid), face the music. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I know several that have, but I have not. It really does not matter. I would rather a person cut it away than ride it in anyday. There is a hard deck for a reason. If at your hard deck altitude you do not feel that the canopy is safe to land GET RID OF IT no matter what the problem is. Once the canopy is found and it was discovered that the brake had fired I would ask if they tried to fix it....I would remind them that while they did the correct thing IMO since they are alive that it would not hurt to check that next time before they chop if they are above the hard deck...At the hard deck it is time to chop if they are not comfertable.... IMO anyone that rags on someone for cutting away is an asshole. ADVISING them of other options is a good idea, but ragging on them? Grow up. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Wow you insult a guy that shows maturity. And pick on a guy that shows responsibility. Well that about wraps this up. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Nope, but there are several tests already out there. The PRO test, BillVon's list before you downsize....There have been many more discussed and several others used. The problem is not the tests, lists, classes..ect. But that the people that need them don't get them. Only you and your abilities would tell if you were ready to downsize...I have always been a supporter of a test out option...I WANT the truely skilled to advance. Somethings cause problems....Like two night jumps for the "D". Some people don't want to swoop, so why make them? Other things like flat turns and other really good stuff should be taught early so people can use them when they get into trouble. So what could we put in place for skills at different levels? We already have distance to target....But that is the most pencil whipped thing I have ever seen. BillVons chart of skills is a great guide. I like it, its great for YOU to decide if you are ready, but hard for others to know you did it. I like to PRO test since its easy to judge so that non swoopers could still sign off on it and its easy to do if you really know how to fly your canopy. Get any pro swooper to do it and they will have no problem. But if you are just looking for a personal test Bills list is good. But it does not work well for a test of skills in many cases. Landing where you want standing up works no matter what level of experince you are or what type of approach you do straight in or hook turn. The goal is the same, "Land where you want standing". "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Teacher, but not at a school. I'm an Instructor at a 100,000 + EE company. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334