FLYJACK

yup, I posted that already with even more wind info... Eric just ignores it. The winds were an assumption based on Portland and Salem data averaged between 8-9PM, but if you look at winds close to 8PM they were ESE shifting to S then SSW.. All the wind data shows the winds from the ESE/SSE to S around 8 PM. In line with the flightpath.. the data also suggests it was the virtually the same same direction at all alt levels but increased at elevation. The winds were an assumption, a poor one. That spins the LZ . FBI part 20 page 6197-6198 8:00 PM – Toledo, Washington: Measured 3,000 feet overcast, 12 miles visibility, very light rain showers, temperature 42, wind south 5 knots. Rain began 7:35 p.m. 9:00 PM – Toledo, Washington: 3,000 scattered measured, 3,400 overcast, 12 miles visibility, temperature 42, wind south 6 knots. Rain ended at 8:05 p.m. FBI part 22 page 6547 8:00 PM – Sea-Tac. Visibility 7 miles; clouds 700 ‘ft., scattered; estimated, 2,500 ft., overcast. Wind SSE @10 knots with light rain wnich began at 7:12 PM. The following suggests the wind was a “guess” for the LZ “_______ also stated that to secure average of below listed information for Woodland, Washington, an average of the two sets of information would give close estimate of conditions at Woodland. The information below is for the times between 8:00 p.m. and 9:00 p.m. on November- 24, 1971”

Yes,, also find out if the 727 prototypes, (used in the 63/65 drop test) used rivets/screws for the placard... those may have been unique.. In 1963 -1964, The Boeing Company ·had ---·-- --- a team of 20 to 30 and test pilots experimenting with the air stairs of The Boeing 727 to determine the plane’s adaptability for dropping cargo or personnel. In the tests conducted the air stairs were removed and packages were dropped from the plane using an especially designed chute. Northwest telephoned on 12/30/71. He said he had definitely confirmed that pertinent airplane would be available to us all day on 1/6/72 and that we could do both the day time and night time flights on that day. The night flight suggests they flew the flighpath as well as the sled test.

"FBI spokesman Kay Mathis in Seattle put a word of caution on the finding of the placard by admitting that it was possible the plastic piece, 8 by 11 inches in size, may have been knocked off after the Cooper flight rather than during it." All I am saying is that this statement made after they investigated the placard suggests the plane flew over the area.. it doesn't make sense otherwise. They knew where it flew and that would have been the first thing they checked. Obviously there are many variables and other possibilities.. like most of this case.

That map just one quick example, I am sure I could find more,, knowing the flightpath is a non issue, locals knew where the FBI search was.. it would have been easy to figure out the path (v23) or see an unofficial map of it before 1979..

Placard doesn't have to be loose for days.. it could have been dislodged during the test or rigging for it. They could have flown the flightpath with airstairs down and then out over the ocean. I disagree, they investigated the placard for months before that statement was made, they would have known if any tests included the area where it was found. To suggest it might have come off during the test indicates that it was a real possibility, not an off the cuff remark.

The flightpath was easily known by late 1978,, the FBI search locations were known and locals could have easily figured it out. But I think it is a long shot.. the condition of the placard suggests it wasn't in the woods for 7 years. 1976...

true, but they may have lowered the rear stairs over he flightpath during some test. The FBI statement was months after the placard find after they investigated it. They would have known if the plane didn't fly the flightpath and if they knew that the statement is not likely. They stated it may have come off after the Cooper flight... it is far more likely they made that statement knowing the plane re-flew the flightpath.. it doesn't make sense otherwise.

There is another remote possibility, somebody stole it from the plane after NORJAK as a souvenir,, and Hicks made up the find. It is just another unanswered aspect of the VORTEX

I don't even know what that means.. They knew the plane testing location when they made the statements, they would have ruled it out if the plane wasn't over the flightpath. They didn't.

If the Placard was from Cooper scenario,, Airstairs lowered by Cooper, having trouble pulls emergency access door off wall drops it on stairs above actual ventral stair. 8:04/8:05 he returns to interphone to talk he immediately goes back down airstairs kicking the "emergency access door" down and out as he descends to the bottom. Placard drifts back along Flightpath. jumps 8:09/11 But now that is in question if that Placard came off later or another 727... I always thought it looked to good to be in the woods for 7 years.

Of course, the sled was dropped over the Ocean.. that doesn't mean they didn't also fly over the flightpath. The FBI had the Placard for months when they made that (media) statement, don't you think they would have figured out where the plane was when it performed any tests. That statement implies that the plane ALSO flew over the flightpath otherwise they would have easily ruled it out.

The statement suggests they took the plane over the flightpath for the testing. When they said the placard "matches" the plane they must have meant "same type" not "same one". "The FBI had earlier said the Lake Mcrwin area appeared to be the prime area for the landing. The placard finding site, however, would put it possibly six minutes earlier in the flight when he jumped. FBI spokesman Kay Mathis in Seattle put a word of caution on the finding of the placard by admitting that it was possible the plastic piece, 8 by 11 inches in size, may have been knocked off after the Cooper flight rather than during it. He said also it was possible it was knocked off after Cooper opened the door over about Olympia and several minutes before he actually jumped. "We took the Cooper plane up after the hijacking and simulated a drop by a parachutist." he said. "We noticed the decal was missing after that but not before." However, Mathis said they were not certain if the placard, or decal, was on the plane before they made the simulated runs." https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/215258951/

Another 727 with what may be a placard where the "emergency release" access door is. This is the best image I can grab. The other image seems to indicate that it is closer to 6" tall x 8" wide, the right size to fit on the emergency access door and still expose the finger holes. 727 Ventral airstair panel placard "STAIR CONTROL" without the optional "Emergency release"

Here is pic of a 727 with the optional "emergency air stair release" you can see the access door with the two finger holes, it removes completely.. and there are two placards on the main door, they don't appear to match the Hick's placard. This plane was from a 727C "combi" 1969.. S/N 20278 768 B727-077C JT8D-7A(HK3) 10/31/69 TRANS AUSTRALIAN AIR EXPRESS I blurred out the person's face.

They must have airframe records, anybody have any connections at Boeing??

One of those docs I posted quoted Boeing for furnishing numbers of 727's with optional "emergency airstair release" installed and after kits sold. They have the info,,

So close,, Would Boeing have records for the plane? Boeing 727-051, serial number 18803/line number 137

I agree like a decal, but no adhesive.. a thin plastic placard? thin enough to easily fold. but why rivets/screws?? I can't find any airplane placard using rivets/screws.. did they fasten the access door and (they) release from the wall with the door?? if so then the door finger holes must have been above the placard and the placard blew off the access door after leaving the plane. A missing access door would have been noticed. and does it look like it was in the forest for 7 years? not really..

It clearly had rivets/screws.. which is odd. I couldn't find any like that 727 or otherwise. Everything was decals, it may have been an earlier era plane, maybe not even a 727 as many planes had "AFT AIRSTAIRS" rear side. The 727 emergency release decal I did find said "VENTRAL AIRSTAIRS".

That isn't quite accurate, not on 727-200's.. 164 727-100 passenger and 91 cargo/passenger "combi" jets were manufactured with the "emergency release" and 63 modification kits sold. I don't have info about removal but they are uncommon and hard to find.. http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/publications/tp12296-schedulea-section2-5545.htm#section1 B-727-100/200 Doors (Type I) Aft Airstairs (Ventral) H - 1.93 (6 ft 4 in) W - 0.81 m (2 ft 8 in) Approximate force required to move door control handle from closed/locked position to open position: 10 kg (22 lbs). Door and Control Handle - 100 Series Control Handle has button on top of handle used in conjunction with handle to electrically raise/lower stair assembly. Emergency Use (100 series) - inside stairway. Remove emergency access covers; pull sharply on release handle (inward). Action will cause uplocks to be sheared and forcibly extend stairs extensive damage will be caused to system). /200 AFT Airstairs no alternate emergency handles NORMAL and EMERGENCY functions controlled by the single door control handle.

I have read that the optional "emergency release" was not an option on the cargo planes or 727-200's, so it won't have the same placard.. but it would still good to get detailed images..

I disagree, the chute left by Cooper is evidence.. Why don't you ask Mark 377..

Of course it would be evidence if it was the one left the plane. Cooper would have specific knowledge of it and may have handled it.

parachute,, Hayden got the 1957 parachute returned in 1975, it was deemed "would not be used as evidence.. in this matter." I doubt the FBI would return the chute found on the plane so soon as "not evidence", but they would return one not sent to the plane. That further suggests Cooper used Cossey's chute.

Cooper likely chose that flight because it was very short with less chance of air marshals and a light passenger load.. There is zero connection to Boeing. A Boeing employee hijacking right near Boeing is not confirmation, it is a rejection of that assumption.. Hahneman hijacked his 727 in PA he jumped in Honduras, your assumption is busted. There is no way Cooper makes the demand to fly nonstop to Mexico knowing that it was unachievable and would be rejected. He made that demand believing it was possible and that suggests his initial plan was to jump south of the US border. He wasn't dressed for a PNW jump in that weather. Cooper jumped were he did to avoid the risk of landing in Reno. It wasn't his initial plan. Cooper was an aviator but he wasn't a 727 expert. He got basic things wrong.