rehmwa

see, I like this. Courtesy and humility absolutely leads to more responsible gun owners and users. I think if people were more respectful in general, you'd get the best results (even with lots, or zero, gun laws). Seems to be lacking in a LOT of countries, and certainly in SC. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

that was going to be the next point - thanks a bit disappointed here the NRA didn't just emphasize this in the latest speech I'd like to see school districts voluntarily take advantage of this. It would take a maturation in the attitudes of regular people about guns - that means people need to stop being scared of the object and realize it's just a tool to be used responsibly ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

question on any observation at this point is correlation vs cause vs effect.....but you pretty much come to the point of responsible ownership requires training and periodic reassessments seems that would be something the NRA could offer that would be constructive ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

methinks I agree I wonder if the fact of it being an armed populace is also a factor - even a small part. When it's part of the culture, perhaps the object is taken more seriously. Also, when everyone knows how to use one, the children are exposed to it in a responsible manner. Also, when everyone has one and knows how to use one, it's not an item of fear, terror, or romance - it's just a common item. etc etc as a youth, I pretty much grew up in this environ - so I'm not just hip shooting...when I see people super fearful of a gun, it really does make as much sense to me as being afraid of a baseball bat (i.e., it's not the bat that scares, it's the attitude of the guy holding the bat that matters only) If someone wants to argue this position, I'll be happy to switch around to the other. But I'm more comfy with this one. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

no more so than the rest of you - Mine philosophy is pretty much all about individuals getting to decide for themselves, so trying to make a blanket fix is antithetical to that. And just putting that philosophy out there doesn't help, people either agree or not - there's not really a 'discussion' to be had since it's foundational. (edit: hey Skyrad - though we were going in an interesting discussion, apparently someone thought it was a digression. We can catch up, if you like on another thread about the Swiss situation being a potentially interesting model that seems to work better than many other countries.) ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

I think that's great and can address some, but not all of the problem. however, the Swiss are a good example "The Swiss don't need to carry them in the first place, they live in a law abiding civilized society." seems that when the people are law abiding and civilized, then mass ownership of guns isn't an issue one way or the other, so everyone gets the option and possibly ownership is even expected - so how do we get a population that respects law and courtesy? ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

I get that...So, if a Swiss man is getting attacked by someone, he needs to put that gun down and go get his army knife or a piece of chocolate for defense. I suspect they put a sticker on the rifles that states "only applicable in the event of invasion" too? that would help. thanks for the clarification (seriously, one might argue that defense of the children would be the ultimate form of defending a nation) ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

thanks for the clarification - I think that would be a tough inference no matter how you tried to analyze it ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

that's a tangent to my comment. Black market purchase and stolen weapons are completely outside my post and aren't going to be stopped by legislation. It's a good topic of discussion, but not where I was going. The stupid criminal gets caught and jailed (but better than 2-3% of the time). the persistent criminal goes the next step to find that weapon - but he'd do it anyway. At least we thinned the herd. I don't know what a "gun crime" is. I suspect that there are many 'crimes' that are sometimes committed with guns, and sometimes committed without - but a crime is an act, not an object. IMHO - anyone that tries to criminalize an object, or a thought, really doesn't understand what responsibility means. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

And as previously posted on this site, gun violations prosecuted are down 40% under the Obama admin compared to the Bush admin. So this is really a non-starter to me. Do the math: Obama period - 423 convictions out of 27,000 violations - 1.56% Bush period - So he'd get then about 705 convictions? - that's a whopping 2.61% so what? it's slightly less closer to zero than the other guy? Point 1 - those that tried and failed: regardless - both time periods are a huge fail. Both time periods still illustrate the point that convicted felons demonstrate obtuse attempts to buy illegally and then they aren't held responsible and left to go obtain weapons in ways we don't have visibility to..... Point 2 - those that tried and succeeded: my question - how many convicted felons 'beyond' that 27,000 slipped through the cracks and succeeded. If they'd have known they'd be put back in jail for this (better than 2 or 3% conviction rate), how many of them wouldn't have tried at all? keeping guns from "potentially" crazy people is rife with potential for abuse and denying rights from decent citizens of good character. But convicted felons - there is not "potential" there - their status is proven and known. this area should be a slam dunk. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

so only the rich crazies can get them....the government needs to subsidize sales of automatic weapons to poor crazies to make it fair ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

actually, it's not really split along party lines very much - the gun thing is one topic that's pretty orthogonal and is more along the lines of individual rights vs gov regulation. I hate to make it a party thing, Dems around here are very divided, so are the Reps ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

this is a radical idea - actually enforce existing laws on the books. Great point. Actually, I mean this is a great example that when people say "enforce the existing laws" that it's not just a bumper sticker quote. It's really true. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

Sorry, I don't see the humour in the death of these kids, or the response of many to it. Maybe having two kids in that same age bracket makes me biased. It's really humor in your stupid comments, not at all about the kids. You make strawman after strawman and I just joined to see if you were being friendly or an ass. I see there's no point in debating someone just trying to be objectionable for the sake of being objectionable. If you have a couple young kids, I don't see how you can object to having a say locally in how to protect your kids without federal interference based on garnering votes rather than actually protecting your kids. My comment doesn't even talk about a specific way to do it, just that you get a say in it. I wonder about your assumption that allowing parents as many options as they can come up to you means only arming the school and no other option. Your viewpoint is pretty narrow. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

aside - I heard a comment today - something about the goofy reasons anti-gun people think the 2nd is all about. One fix is to just make a legislative statement that any citizen that owns a gun or gets a license or a CHL is automatically considered to be in the state's "militia" that should streamline things a bit ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

It's fun strawmanning with you. I'm learning a lot. I like this: If you think passing a law that tells people they can't shoot bullets into kids' toys is a good idea, than only criminal will shoot bullets at kids' toys..... ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

DISAGREE. 1. Gun laws need to be uniform or they are too easy to circumvent. Only the feds can make this happen. 2. Very poor areas would have a hard time paying for extra security. So implementation would be inhomogeneous and as usual the poorest would get the short end of the stick. odd - my post isn't about gun laws, it's about each school deciding on the necessary security for their needs without outside interference Clearly the website has a problem as it even shows my post quoted. That gives the impression that your post is a complete tangent and we know you are much smarter than that. I'll send a note in about the glitch and we'll see if Sangiro can figure out what's wrong. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

but not for lack of trying ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

I know this is a radical idea - but how about the Feds just stay out of it and let the parents and the schools decide how they want to handle it? From whimper and hide all the way up to allowing teachers to volunteer to be armed - any option is on the table. Seems to me, that a small community school where everyone knows each other and a huge inner city school with metal detectors and a high end private school and a typical suburban school all have different risks and needs. why on earth is the president and congress even involved in these two issues?: rights of property ownership, and local school safety. The only thing the Feds should be doing is to protect the 2nd from erosion. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

No, it should fire at about the same altitude. Expert Cypres vs. student Cypres out of the box would be 225 meters vs 300 meters. http://www.cypres.cc/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=131&Itemid=94&lang=en I'm with Mitchell on two things - 1 - Since I'm to pull at 2K no matter what, then I consider 225 and 300 meters to be 'the same' in terms of being smart when trying to save anyone 2 - I doubt that there are any scenarios where I'd even realize the other instructor was unconscious. So the question is interesting for discussion, but I don't think applicable to reality ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

that list is even shorter than the following list: Movies where Keanu Reeves, Bo Derek, and John Wayne showed any acting talent. Steps to peel an orange Number of combustion engines in existence when Kallend was born How many baths does a CrW dog take in a month ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

- so far what I take from you and dekker's positions (essentially) 1 - rape victims shouldn't have dressed like that 2 - people should stick with their "own kind" or risk being hurt 3 - and if they do, even accidentally, they shouldn't be allowed to protect themselves, just lay back and take it 4 - it's their own fault if they get attacked apparently no one has ever taken a wrong turn, or been invited 'downtown' by friends for dinner, etc etc etc truly dizzying - IMHO, I disagree (yes, this isn't what you mean, but it seems to be a possible outcome that also needs to be considered) ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

right, because if they outlaw it, people just won't do it under the table, or gift to the kids before they die grandfathering or not, it would be an impotent law and a waste of time ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

Yes, preparing for things as best you can, even situations where someone else has the power is a good thing. Paying attention isn't a substitute for arming yourself. Because you should be allowed to do both. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

good point - if he was purposely taken out by another jumper, then absolutely you are right - it was his fault for being a target. not the attacker ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants