mrshutter45

Yes you did. But that was also back when you were saying it was pink. The page below is where I posted the chute picture from back a couple of pages ago. Note it is a cargo chute from 1945. They say silk. This a garment company - you'd think they would know their fabrics from a hole in the ground.........

Yes you did. But that was also back when you were saying it was pink. The page below is where I posted the chute picture from back a couple of pages ago. Note it is a cargo chute from 1945. They say silk. This a garment company - you'd think they would know their fabrics from a hole in the ground.........

Yes you did. But that was also back when you were saying it was pink. The page below is where I posted the chute picture from back a couple of pages ago. Note it is a cargo chute from 1945. They say silk. This a garment company - you'd think they would know their fabrics from a hole in the ground.........

That's too cool Hangdiver. It's obvious why the American Lady Corset Company never made skydiving canopies. 377 Whoa, Three-Seven-Seven. If I had an American Lady Corset parachute, I'd definitely start skydiving! Over Hollywood, too!! I'd even want to get a matching windbreaker and baseball cap!!! don't forget your loafers and briefcase The photos presented so far make fabric id impossible. I have to wonder if Tom and Gray saw photos of better quality in the archive, and may have some answers but aren't talking? Why all of the mysteries surrounding this 'cargo' chute? The void just invites rampant speculation and trouble. well, I guess Gray would be the only one to ask since Tom admitted he never asked about the chute during investigation. so I think it's safe to say he didn't see any photo's or that would of brought questions into play. I agree on the speculation, I believe Blevins does too. I also think we are chasing absolutely zip.....but would still like to confirm something. I haven't cleaned this photo up, but I took it off the video from KOMO news. you can see where it is torn and frayed. followed by just a close up of the chute. "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

That's too cool Hangdiver. It's obvious why the American Lady Corset Company never made skydiving canopies. 377 Whoa, Three-Seven-Seven. If I had an American Lady Corset parachute, I'd definitely start skydiving! Over Hollywood, too!! I'd even want to get a matching windbreaker and baseball cap!!! don't forget your loafers and briefcase "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

I have no experience with cargo chutes and any thoughts on the amboy chute is pure speculation...nothing more. The amboy chute doesn't look silk to me...and I think a personnel chute would have more data stamped on it...like I said pure speculation. Where is the original pic of the data panel on the amboy chute? I did find one in a collage that farflung posted a few years ago. If what Norman Hayden says (“white, 26-foot conical, rip-stop.”)on The Mountain news web site is true and both parachutes were identical it would have more information on the data panel identifying it. eta: I don't think the amboy chute has anything to do with db cooper and is a cargo chute... Some logic and lots of speculation... hangdiver I don't have the experience either. I think we have to keep in mind the chute is dirty, this could cover easily seen signs of the type of chute. I'm sure the chute looks much different than what we are seeing while standing in front of it? 377...I seen your reference to the N6 having a 26ft canopy. would a 34 ft canopy fit into that container safely? are we going to also dismiss Cossey reporting it at 34ft? "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

Hangdiver, I think you have just proven that the "Feb 46" on the Amboy parachute is NOT a date stamp. On the stamp for your chute (shown in your attachment), the date portion is listed as "Date of MFG: May 11, 1945". I presume cargo parachutes also had date stamps and that they would be done in a similar manner as above. Thus, the "Feb 46", which is isolated from any other markings, is NOT a date stamp, whatever it may be. In any event, the Amboy parachute is not relevant to the Cooper hijacking. Robert99 I found several chutes with stamps on the (see photo) almost all of them are similar to the picture hangdiver produced except one. it's in the upper left corner (yellow) it's a reproduction of a WW2 silk cargo chute? added...the correct photo is on there now Shutter, If the "Feb 46" was suppose to be a date of manufacture, then both your and Hangdiver's illustrations would read something like "Feburaryxx,1946". That is both the day of the month, the complete four digit year, and probably the entire spelling for the month, would be stamped on the fabric. Your illustration further suggests that the "Feb 46" is not a date but just a coincidence meaning something else. Robert99 it seems to be less of a concern for data on a cargo chute opposed to a personal chute. obviously there seems to be a difference in markings. I think the Amboy chute was Feb 12, 1946 not sure though, but it does resemble the cargo chute markings provided in the pic. I have the pic include of the Amboy stamp...it was the 21st not the 12 th. Good. Are we further agreed that since the Amboy stamp is similar to that on a known cargo parachute, and not similar to stamps on known personnel parachutes, that the Amboy parachute is probably a cargo parachute? If so, then the great Amboy parachute mystery can be put to rest as not being related to the Cooper hijacking. Robert99 I can't honestly confirm that it is indeed a cargo chute until I get some more evidence pointing in that direction. based on what has what has been produced, it certainly could go that way. I'm hoping to hear from some people who specialize in vintage chutes. I think it could easily come down to the way it was stamped. "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

Thank you. Now we are getting somewhere. Here are some sample of ripstop if the websites are correct. I could not find a photo of Twill parachute material. Here is silk previously posted - note its pattern. the only twill I found was one on Ebay. it's description is Rip-stop and Twill: Nylon Fabric. "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

Hangdiver, I think you have just proven that the "Feb 46" on the Amboy parachute is NOT a date stamp. On the stamp for your chute (shown in your attachment), the date portion is listed as "Date of MFG: May 11, 1945". I presume cargo parachutes also had date stamps and that they would be done in a similar manner as above. Thus, the "Feb 46", which is isolated from any other markings, is NOT a date stamp, whatever it may be. In any event, the Amboy parachute is not relevant to the Cooper hijacking. Robert99 I found several chutes with stamps on the (see photo) almost all of them are similar to the picture hangdiver produced except one. it's in the upper left corner (yellow) it's a reproduction of a WW2 silk cargo chute? added...the correct photo is on there now Shutter, If the "Feb 46" was suppose to be a date of manufacture, then both your and Hangdiver's illustrations would read something like "Feburaryxx,1946". That is both the day of the month, the complete four digit year, and probably the entire spelling for the month, would be stamped on the fabric. Your illustration further suggests that the "Feb 46" is not a date but just a coincidence meaning something else. Robert99 it seems to be less of a concern for data on a cargo chute opposed to a personal chute. obviously there seems to be a difference in markings. I think the Amboy chute was Feb 12, 1946 not sure though, but it does resemble the cargo chute markings provided in the pic. I have the pic include of the Amboy stamp...it was the 21st not the 12 th. "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

Hangdiver, I think you have just proven that the "Feb 46" on the Amboy parachute is NOT a date stamp. On the stamp for your chute (shown in your attachment), the date portion is listed as "Date of MFG: May 11, 1945". I presume cargo parachutes also had date stamps and that they would be done in a similar manner as above. Thus, the "Feb 46", which is isolated from any other markings, is NOT a date stamp, whatever it may be. In any event, the Amboy parachute is not relevant to the Cooper hijacking. Robert99 I found several chutes with stamps on them (see photo) almost all of them are similar to the picture hangdiver produced except one. it's in the upper left corner (yellow) it's a reproduction of a WW2 silk cargo chute? added...the correct photo is on there now

you have made many implications that it was Cooper's chute. where is the proof only one person looked at the chute over the phone? you still haven't provided the link stating they will not discuss it any further? if it's not silk and not Cooper's chute. who cares? The FBI is on record stating several times that were not going by Cossey alone. this is exactly what you put Robert99 through every time with the flight path being correct vs Robert99 saying it's wrong. you have less experience in navigation, engineering and investigating skills than most. I have mentioned many times that I will wait for R99's completion before I make a decision as to what his conclusions are. by not coming to a conclusion as fast as you wish it would. I would hardly call it BS as you have stated. again, you constantly criticize people for inaccurate, faulty, sloppy work, when the truth is you have explained Robert Blevins. Now, in all fairness I have contacted several vintage parachute "experts" in order to try and see what they come up with. I contacted Gary Peeks last night after seeing his name in the article. he responded that he only commented about chutes being buried in muddy conditions etc. he didn't have an answer on the chute itself. the people I contacted have more than enough experience in the field of parachutes. I will show there websites and credentials as well. it's a start. it's possible the serial number can at least be traced to a type of chute it was. "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

nice pic. I have seen several like that. what is your thoughts on the markings of the Amboy chute. no visible manufacture, nothing but a number and date. would they stamp a cargo chute differently than a personal chute? "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

"We already know that Cossey was answering his phone that week as 'DB Cooper,' and lied to at least two reporters, saying the chute WAS Cooper's. One of them called him back and bit his head off over that." this is the worse case/best case scenario i was talking about that you do. how does an admitted joke turn into a lie? he clearly said it was an April fools joke. Cossey seems to indeed have a big ego, but sometimes what he says might not be what the FBI wanted him to say. the same goes for you, JO Marla and dozens of other who claim they know who Cooper was. since the FBI doesn't conclude anything on these suspects, you guys continue to speak out as if you know the truth. you guys feel you are far more superior over the FBI and wrap the case up into little PDF files that are lacking complete verification, or truth to them. you THOUGHT the PDF sent to the FBI was complete and accurate. this is not the truth either. it seems you also have some accuracy issues yourself. some you already admitted to but fail to correct. this could also put you in a position to be called a liar just like you are doing with Cossey! also seems when you do it, it's a mistake or oversight, or doesn't really matter, but, Cossey is a liar, Cossey is a liar.....Really? Unfortunately the dead can not speak, so you guys crucify them once this happens. similar to when someone gets fired from work. all the blame goes onto him. is it the FBI concluding the chute from Cossey, or is it the media painting this picture? "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

"These are just some of the reasons why that chute should be examined by outside experts." It appears the FBI did that. in a KOMO news video the FBI asks for help to come and look at the chute. not over the phone, but someone who has experience back in that time period. they have Cossey on record looking at the chute, but how do you know that nobody else looked at the chute. I'm sure they got dozens of calls. I also provided some pics of silk and ripstop & silk material. also a photo that seems to show they did stamp the repacking dates on the chutes at one time. http://www.komonews.com/news/17000841.html "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

The story that I remember is that the father was grading the road and the blade caught the corner or edge and pulled it partially out of the ground. Could be that it was inadvertently "buried" when the road was cut as opposed to purposefully buried by someone. "A tattered, half-buried parachute unearthed by kids had D.B. Cooper country chattering Wednesday over the fate of the skyjacker, who leapt from a plane 36 years ago and into the lore of the Pacific Northwest." several links repeat the same about it being half buried. I have also read about the tractor hooking it. so who found it, Dad while grading the road, or his kids after he left the area? "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

Interesting point Jo - The container could have been nylon or cotton. Does anybody know what WAS inside of the 'dummy' chute? *They were used as a training aid for students going through a 1st jump course...one could actually pull the reserve ripcord while going through their emergency procedures, and not have a bunch of parachute jump out & slow things down. I've seen everything from a blanket to rags to non-airworthy canopies packed inside of the containers to give the simulation of proper size and weight during training...the were usually sewn shut with a 'Training Aid' or 'Do Not Jump' label on the front. Carr explained that a white canopy was i the container. it was the chute that was sewn together making it easier to train with. I don't have his quote at the moment. "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

"And then, of course there is always the chance the chute was not buried that long to start with for whatever reason." it was in the search area and yet nobody seen it. could of been covered with brush, but that would of died off and exposed it. was it in a ball as you would think it would be if you were trying to conceal it. it was discovered half out of the ground, what was it's position 2, 3+ years prior? let's assume it was Cooper's chute. how does this help the FBI? they can't ask the public for help. does it help there reputation? they have to already know it's bruised from not solving the case, so where does lying about the chute help anything? then we assume there not lying about anything else, just the chute? Really? "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

Yes, that's my point exactly.....and Burroughs was also reported on April 1 as saying that they were waiting on one more thing before making final determination. So it appears that "perhaps" silk was not the deciding factor as some have assumed. agreed, I'm sure all of use would like a better explanation, but as I mentioned before, I don't think the FBI really cares what we think. it just doesn't make sense to go through all of the hype of reporting the chute, and turn around and cover up the findings. The FBI is far from perfect. The US Marshal's found evidence supporting a raft was found the next day after the escape from Alcatraz. "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

"Larry Carr, the special agent in charge of the case out of the FBI's Seattle field office, said the FBI couldn't confirm anything tonight. The FBI wants to take one more step Tuesday, Carr said, and then may be ready to comment." this was after Cossey concluded it was silk.....March 31, 2008 "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

lol...got any mirrors in that office of yours? According to their site, Tom Kaye and company looked at some of the evidence in 2009 and 2011. Tom Kaye and company jumped to conclusions on several points. One of these was that they "concurred" that the parachute was first generation nylon and not silk - even though by their own admission they had never examined the chute. This is, in my opinion, not only sloppy but irresponsible. They cannot and should not make any conclusions about something that they have not seen. They didn't even cage it with a "we think because.....". In the notes they caveat with a "research shows that it is likely....." but the body of the main text makes it appear that the parachute is not silk. How can they know that? I respect the work, time, expense that Tom Kay and company expended on this case and think their contribution is a good one. But they are not infallible - and their work has holes. My major disappointment is that they tended to jump to conclusions and used a little too much speculation. There are other areas where the claims were - maybe not specious - but certainly presupposing outcomes without actual scientific proof. But silk or nylon, whether you like it or not, based on final news reports it appears that the FBI did their due diligence in vetting the chute - aside from Cossey. If they wanted to hide from the truth they never would have re-ignited the case in the first place. But I have no doubt that they are not publicizing everything that they know. This is also alluded to on Tom Kaye's website ......"The FBI has requested that specific information not be released publicly, so this is an overview of the evidence". You have to wonder if the FBI took any pictures of the original chutes prior to getting on the plane? do they have pictures of the money prior to getting on the plane. I mean in the form of the bag to the plane. not the microfilm of each bill. if so, it's funny that none of the individuals looking over the evidence reported such finds? I seriously doubt they showed them all the cards. did they see any evidence of microfilm anywhere? did they access a machine for viewing? The FBI turned over the Alcatraz file to the Marshal's office. look how old that case is. 1962. they haven't release the information on that either. hundreds of cases fall into the release clause by age if you ask me. it's up to the them unfortunately. what would they do to these guys from Alcatraz and DB Cooper if they did catch them? lock them up for life? "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

you always have time Blevins. I didn't realize you knew the truth lol. Truth like this? Kenny paid $16,500 cash for his home. Kenny paid $10 for the lot behind the house. Kenny had almost $200,000 before died. no reason for it. Tom Kaye was denied access to the Amboy chute during his investigation. that kind of truth lol....no thanks. "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

where did I say they were not allowed to see the tie? or any other evidence like the ticket etc. please show me this. also, I realize that quote was taken from the website. when what day/month/year was CS at the FBI. 2007? when was the chute found? "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

Robert, what about the four letters? do they have absolute evidence pointing to Cooper writing them? other than Paul trying to prove them. why don't they explain those letters? why don't they check for DNA? are they covering that up as well? or is there something we don't know that prevents them from checking the validation of the letters? why won't they show exactly how they concluded where Cooper jumped? what are they afraid of. are they covering it up? or did they calculate it wrong? there is no way to tell since the refuse to discuss that as well. where is good pictures of the search area maps? It does matter a whole lot about you claiming that Tom was denied the chute during his investigation. it puts false beliefs into people not up to date with the case. darkness, drama, deception. it aggravates those who do know. you are twisting what is reality Robert. your going to be stonewalled on access to all the evidence. not just the chute. I believe they could of explained it better, but this doesn't mean it was Cooper's chute. they just don't see things the way you want them to be seen. they could care less what we think. some of the things I have knowledge of in the last week tell a completely different story to what is in the papers. documented evidence. especially one's you thought were totally ridiculous. personally, I think it boils down to what they really know about the case vs what we think we know about the case. I do agree they have explaining to do on certain things, but I think it's more of the way the whole thing was handled. I don't believe at this point that they are intentionally covering things up. I do leave room for things being wrong, but based on what I've read about the Amboy chute and documented evidence showing more than one person involved viewing the chute. I can only agree at this point it doesn't seem to be anything but a lost parachute from a period in time to be unknown. "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

Oh, come on. You are shooting the messenger again and ignoring the message. I quoted Kaye's email, which is plain enough as I said. The standing offer to examine has been on Kaye's website for years now. You are going to the wrong person on this issue. If you want clarification on exactly when and under what circumstances Curtis Eng refused to let Kaye have access to the Amboy chute, you should be contacting Tom Kaye. We're not talking about ME walking into the FBI office and asking to look at it. I am not a parachute expert. I would be of no use in identifying its nature. I was not a part of a team already allowed to examine all the other evidence without restrictions. That would be Kaye, Alan Stone, and Carol Abraczinskas. To suggest that these same people be allowed to examine the chute (something they obviously want to do) is perfectly reasonable. Oh come on nothing Robert. this whole argument stems from you claiming Tom didn't have access during his investigation. everyone should realize they are not going to allow anyone else to look at the evidence. this includes everything they have. you are twisting the entire argument which was about Tom being denied the access. the FBI denied Tom access after the fact. it's not a department store with returns, or return visits. you are putting a dark cloud over only the access to the chute. that is misleading. nobody is allowed access to any of the evidence. period. how do you know they didn't send the chute out for testing and concluded from there? why would they send the chute of no value back to Seattle, or was it not safe there being known it was Cooper's? lmao further more...you add: That would be Kaye, Alan Stone, and Carol Abraczinskas. To suggest that these same people be allowed to examine the chute (something they obviously want to do) is perfectly reasonable. again, you are speculating on what the FBI should do in order to please Robert Blevins. they didn't have to access the evidence to anyone, but they did. then you want more, and more. it's an open case. the are not legally bound to produce anything. this doesn't mean the are hiding, or covering something up. They give two shits what you think is reasonable. you are doing the samething Robert by refusing to answer questions about KC. stop your whining already. Added. Robert says: I am not a parachute expert. Is Tom Kaye? "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

I wonder what would happen if Mr. Blevins walked into the Seattle office an asked to see the tie, or the plane ticket? do ya think they would just whip it right on out? I'm sure they wouldn't. instead of saying he was denied access to the evidence, he would start claiming he was denied only those two pieces of evidence. this is exactly how rumors begin. "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI