mrshutter45

Matt, just to be clear about this: one of Jo's complaints has been she could not get all of Duane's "records", whatever "all" means. As a former spouse, can she get "all of" Duane's military records? Maybe you could clarify that for her ... As his widow, she would fall under the "next of Kin" clause. Matt "Next of kin" is a living blood relative, are you sure she would fall under this clause? you would think a box for Spouse/Husband would apply? "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

understood, it's almost a given that LE and such would have access. perhaps my wording was incorrect by stating "classified" as opposed to "restricted" kind of ran with that term after reading Jo was claiming his file was classified. she needs to have Duane's daughter file for the records...done... "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

"But to add, one can get records through a request process, a SF form is filled out sent in and then you wait. " according to the SF form, you need to be "Next of kin" or "Legal guardian" in order to have access to the records, correct? see attachment "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

It's my understanding that all military records are classified, in order to view them you need permission from the person in writing to receive any records. enlistment records are not classified and can be searched. If your not a Family member..... I'm sure Matt will have an answer for this..... "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

Looks like the avian conspiracy regarding the Seahawks may have been a hoax. Falcons 27 - Hawks 7...so far. I don't know what you are talking about, I never mentioned military records, criminal records is the subject..... "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

http://www.archives.gov/st-louis/military-personnel/fire-1973.html "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

Jo, You are missing the obvious. The State of Missouri had a prisoner known as John Collins. They had apparently never heard of Duane Weber. The Missouri Governor could not issue a commutation for someone the Missouri State Prison had never heard of. Consequently, the Governor issued a commutation for John Collins. This means that there were apparently no other legal issues for John Collins in Missouri. And Duane Weber apparently did not have a criminal record in Missouri. Even if the FBI discovered that John Collins and Duane Weber were the same person the day after he was released from the Missouri State Prison, if John Collins/Duane Weber didn't have some outstanding legal problems somewhere, it is unlikely that the FBI would pursue the matter. What is so difficult to understand about that? Robert99 the conviction of "Grand Stealing" is not a Federal offence, the FBI wouldn't have anything to do with this conviction, Collins received a 4 year sentence in a State Penitentiary and filed for commutation under that name which does not have Weber's background. the Governor probably seen no criminal background and good behavior then released him, you never do the amount of time given, I don't know what the gain time was in this period, but you do accumulate a certain amount of days each month taken off your sentence for good behavior, so his early release was not as bad as one thinks. "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

they didn't exactly turn a career criminal loose, he spent a considerable amount of time in Jefferson, if Hearnes was lenient and didn't know about Weber's past, and only Collins, he would grant the early release. this problem continues to this day by releasing prisoners early due to good behavior and overcrowding. since no record is found on Collins, can you blame the FBI for the over sight? missing records should not be looked at as a cover up. the State of Missouri does have records of Warren E Hearnes on microfilm, perhaps something is on the microfilm. the FBI probably didn't think it was worth digging up when they have valid prints of Duane. the system is far from perfect, one Judge will give you probation and yet another Judge will give time for the exact same crime and reasons..it's still hard to face the fact of the fingerprints they have on record being Duane's. before the "age of computers" I'm sure the percentage of human error is a factor here. one could only assume how many documents have been lost in passing years before the computer age. just as they did with the transcripts from the OK Corral that were missing for years and almost thrown away by a clerk cleaning a basement. if i'm correct they were missing since the 50's taking another 50 years before they surfaced. I stand corrected the documents were last seen in the 60's see attachment http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/7617181/Original-OK-Corral-document-found-during-US-court-springclean.html added: The president or a governor can grant a pardon but not amnesty. Federal criminal convictions can only be pardoned by the President. State convictions can only be pardoned by the Governor of the state where the conviction occurred. "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

That is NOT what Carr's arrogant statements indicated. He was adamanate the FINGERPRINTS had been checked against the system - a system I argued was not completely inforce in 1968....he just did NOT get it. He refused to GET it! He kept SAYING the FBI used the McNeil file prints - prints that were supposedly cross checked with Jefferson. Yet, in 2000 the FBI agent of record was unaware of the McNeil file and claimed Weber was NEVER in McNeil. NOW do you get it? THE only thing that got thru was the photo copy of the ACTUAL commutation - he kept referring to what was currently in 2008 on the system - not what was. Paper I trust. FBI agents I do NOT trust. I understand what you are saying, but, it does seem they have Duane using the name John Collins, Carr did list that name when he showed the alias's Duane used. if the agent on record in 2000 was stupid enough not to cross check the names Duane used in the past, perhaps this would be the reason he said what he said. have you tried to find the County where "Collins" was convicted in? the state of Missouri just might have the records of Warren E Hearnes? even if they did miss this conviction, fingerprints don't lie Jo, they have multiple sets on Duane. have you tried to contact any County Clerks office in Missouri? things get lost, several years ago someone almost threw away the original transcripts from the gunfight at the OK Corral. people are willing to help you Jo, but you need to start understanding vs arguing with the FBI and everyone on this thread stating we are all wrong. let me know if you checked the things mentioned above..... "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

IF they CHECKED the finger PRINTS like CARR boasted in the thread - then they would KNOW he was WEBER? THis is what I questioned with CARR - is that the system was not in full force at that time but, he claimed it was. the way I see this is if they were aware Collins was Weber, he would have Duane Weber aka John Collins on his commutation certificate. I think Carr is speaking about the FBI checking the prints of Duane's alias names, not what Jefferson prison or Courts did. If the prison didn't know he was Weber and didn't have a criminal background, this gives more merit of a early release. the prisoner is the one who files the documents for release, or his Lawyer. "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

do you think they were aware John Collins was Duane Weber? you can't knowingly go to prison under an alias.... "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

Damnit! Not true! The "were" part... And sometimes the "fe" part ! Um. Not really, Mr Mysogynistic. who are those woman supposed to be in the picture? You're kidding, right? And it's 'women,' not 'woman'. "notexactlylesbians" If you don't know who they are, how are you judging there sexual preference? more of your "proper diagnosis" hard at work.... sorry didn't pay attention to what eye wrote woman/women... thank you grammar police! "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

Damnit! Not true! The "were" part... And sometimes the "fe" part ! Um. Not really, Mr Mysogynistic. who are those woman supposed to be in the picture? "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

it's your favorite......run with it while ya can Easy Company 506th Parachute Infantry Regiment $50.00 extra each month as "jump pay" http://users.skynet.be/101airborne/clancy/506hist_us.html "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

ARMY SERIAL NUMBER 17141033 NAME CHRISTIANSEN#KENNETH#P## CHRISTIANSEN#KENNETH#P## RESIDENCE: STATE 74 MINNESOTA RESIDENCE: COUNTY 149 STEVENS PLACE OF ENLISTMENT 7325 FT LEAVENWORTH KANSAS DATE OF ENLISTMENT DAY 18 DATE OF ENLISTMENT MONTH 12 DATE OF ENLISTMENT YEAR 44 GRADE: ALPHA DESIGNATION PVT# Private GRADE: CODE 8 Private BRANCH: ALPHA DESIGNATION NO# No branch assignment BRANCH: CODE 02 No branch assignment FIELD USE AS DESIRED # # TERM OF ENLISTMENT 5 Enlistment for the duration of the War or other emergency, plus six months, subject to the discretion of the President or otherwise according to law LONGEVITY ### ### SOURCE OF ARMY PERSONNEL 5 Enlisted Reserve or Medical Administrative Corps (MAC) Officer NATIVITY 74 MINNESOTA YEAR OF BIRTH 26 26 RACE AND CITIZENSHIP 1 White, citizen EDUCATION 5 1 year of college CIVILIAN OCCUPATION 992 Undefined Code MARITAL STATUS 6 Single, without dependents COMPONENT OF THE ARMY 3 Reserves - exclusive of Regular Army Reserve and Officers of the Officers Reserve Corps on active duty under the Thomason Act (Officers and Enlisted Men -- O.R.C. and E.R.C., and Nurses-Reserve Status) "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

"You might not have found it because of the spelling. I think it's Kenneth Christiansen." Yep, that will do it, didn't notice I did that,,,,,,, Thanks "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

Is there any proof KC was in the military? I'm reading pages back in the 760+ range and Blevins is in trouble back then, misquoting, calling people liars, admitting the Amboy chute is not Coopers etc. etc. does Blevins or Port. even reveal the letters for viewing?or is this more hearsay? "I did some interviews. Skipp Porteous is the investigator." now he's all filled up with knowledge for everyone, top 12 goes to top 25, still on the Amboy chute, it goes on for eternity....much like today.... just noticed: "I managed once again to pitch myself into the blast" I take it this is where the name of the book came from? "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

I still don't recall it ever being proven KC WAS trained as a Paratrooper. I asked for this several pages back, I don't recall ever seeing it addressed. I know It is not your job to prove it, but maybe you saw it if it was posted? Matt you are correct, to the best of my knowledge I haven't seen any military records of KC.......quick search time quick search: Kenith Christiansen Display Partial Records File unit: Electronic Army Serial Number Merged File, ca. 1938 - 1946 (Enlistment Records) No Records Found......Hmmmm "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

"Didn't McCoy wear a jumpsuit and boots? " " someone with just enough experience jumping to be dangerous." Christiansen enlisted in the Army in 1944 and was trained as a paratrooper, finishing high in his class/group (according to you) does wearing loafers sound like something Kenny or an experienced jumper would do? even if he didn't jump for years? "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

" never said I was a mental health expert." So, what gives you the right to say Cooper didn't have mental issues? David Hubbard seems to think all hijackers have some sort of mental issue? are you in the same league as Hubbard? you claim this by what credentials? "I'm big on history and proper diagnosis," how can you give a "proper diagnosis" without proper credentials? "Washington State handles mental health care rather poorly" If you were a part of this, once again why should I listen to you? I think Hubbard has just a little more validation than a two-year degree in Speech and Communications from a community college, don't you? IMO this is why people have issues with you also, is it proper for "active military" to go into a dangerous situation with a fake grenade and empty pistol? "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

I'm really surprised the FBI hasn't sucked Blevins right up and put him in charge of old case files, the man is amazing, no degree in Journalism, very little in Mental Heath and he's an expert! except for his main problem, Robert about his mistakes: "Mine are many, and some are legend." "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

I simply pointed out that you were talking about Duane! and yet the name calling comes right behind it! you have a big problem with Criticism. you constantly come on here like you have the key to the crime and then state you can not share it on the thread! next time just PM the person and don't say anything on the thread! "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

"Didn't McCoy wear a jumpsuit and boots? Didn't he threaten the hell out of people with that fake grenade and pistol? Looks like Mr Military came prepared. The idea of Gossett, a jumper with recent experience and twenty-five years in the military at the time of the hijacking, doing the Cooper Thing is still tough to swallow. Suit, dress shoes, a briefcase with a bomb, no visible weapon, no boots, polite to a fault, and absolutely nothing in conversation or actions that would lead any of the witnesses to think he was active-duty military. 305 does not sound like the work of a lifelong military man, but either an amateur who got lucky or someone with just enough experience jumping to be dangerous. Sorry, but I just can't envision Gossett coming to the biggest party of his life so unprepared. " you need a grenade and pistol to be on "active duty? did Cooper not threaten to blow up a plane with a bomb? did you put your application in to the FBI for immediate "active duty" to start clearing up these old cases? Robert about his mistakes: "Mine are many, and some are legend." I'm going to listen to you??? Robert says: Edit: It could be a trick of the light, maybe...but in the attached pic of Gossett, looks like half of his left eyebrow is missing. Shutter says: could be a trick of light, isn't Kenny missing half his hair? might be wrong though....... "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

"NO it is NOT about Weber!" "Just something I was told and matched what Duane told me and filled in the details" " He was a jumper" but not about Duane??? sounds like everything to do with Weber "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

seems to be perfectly fine for KC to be over qualified as a jumper? seems to be fine that KC's description is way off. "They cite a poor match to eyewitness physical descriptions, a level of skydiving expertise above that predicted by their suspect profile, and an absence of direct incriminating evidence." someone smoking and drinking bourbon, can't be, in 1971? here we are a week later and Blevins website still has inaccurate information on it, but continues to be the one to correct people with his knowledge? Robert about his mistakes: "Mine are many, and some are legend." I would like to know where he got his information about a cheap suit? "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI