jaybird18c

You mad bro?

I'm not talking about friends. We were talking about open border, we are the world, kumbaya stuff, right? You just drive the border and bring Mexican strangers in your home, feed them a meal, let them sleep on your couch, keeping your doors unlocked, of course, before you send them off to your favorite sanctuary city, who's government can support their illegal activity, and shovel taxpayer funded welfare programs in their direction?

How many Mexicans have you brought into your home in the name of communal love and charity?

Charity and protecting your borders are two different things. I'll bet you lock your doors at night.

In this regard, punishment is certainly a consequence of sin which is transgression of the Law. Just like in our judicial system. However, it is not “the ‘only important thing’ that has to happen” as a result. I never said that. That’s only half the story. I went on to describe the rest. The part where God stepped in sending his Son, to pay the fine which was due us, in our place, because it is impossible for us to do so, imputing his righteousness to us, and our guilt to him, both undeserved. Again, he suffered infinitely more than the obvious. The Bible says that “It pleased Yahweh to crush him.” God did not withhold judgment on him in order to ransom his people. Well, you’re focusing on three days being dead in a tomb and I’m trying to explain that it was much more than that. There’s no need to be an ass. Now you’re apparently not paying attention and staying focused. Because Jesus, being the Son of God, was infinitely more worthy than all of us combined. His sacrifice was deemed by God himself sufficient. Apart from him representing you before the Father, you will face judgement. However, it would be impossible for you to face the same, let alone worse, punishment which he did. God did not withhold punishment on his Son. That’s the point. It’s the same scenario as Moses and his son Isaac. He was to sacrifice his son. However, God stopped him and said that a sacrifice would be provided. This illustration was pointing forward to the worthy sacrifice which God would provide himself to save his people.

I never said that punishment was the only important thing. Although, it should warrant concern. My point in all of this is God's solution to the sin problem resulting in hope. Jesus is in fact currently alive and in a place of honor with God. He will return again to judge the world in righteousness. Jesus suffered the wrath of God in the exact measure which was required to satisfy the requirement. You are missing the unseen spiritual suffering which took place and only focusing on the physical crucifixion. Jesus did not sweat tears of blood because he was primarily worried about Roman soldiers or crucifixion. I have no idea what you're talking about.

An agnostic is unsure about the existence of God. Do you not think that the existence of God is a basic teaching of Christianity. That's like saying I believe in skydiving but not so much about the whole falling out of an airplane thing.

What is an "agnostic Christian" anyway? Do you not find that contradictory?

God in three persons (Father, Son, Holy Spirit; Trinity) existed in eternity past, perfectly content, in need of nothing. What is amazing is that he humbled himself, becoming a man, on our behalf. It's the "solitary" attribute of God. Being Emanuel (God with us), he could efficiently represent our human nature, living in perfect adherence to the Law, which we could not. Being "the spotless/unblemished lamb," undeserving of God's wrath, he could serve as a substitute (propitiation). The reason Jesus' death was sufficient was because his life was worth more than all of us in the history of mankind combined. He didn't take the ultimate punishment for us by being tortured and crucified by Roman soldiers. He took the ultimate punishment for us by suffering the wrath of God himself which was aimed at us who deserved it. (Isaiah 53:10-12)

Sheol/Hades was different from hell.

It's not primarily about fear. It's about hope. Without God, you have no hope and you're going to die.

Yes. There are different kinds of death. Physical death is the result of sin (Romans 5:12). Spiritual death is the result of final judgment (Matthew 25:31-46) Unfortunately, we’re not given a second chance in this regard. Sufficient evidence. Without excuse (Romans 1:20) Judgment follows death (Hebrews 9:27) It’s the difference between righteousness and self-righteousness. Since, as we discussed, it is impossible for us, in and of ourselves, to be righteous by God’s standard, he served as “our righteousness.” By faith, evidenced by repentance, God transforms our nature from one which was naturally hostile towards God to one which is amenable towards him. Now the things we do, however imperfect (Christians still sin), can be seen as good. That’s not to say that everything we do is. However, apart from God, even what we consider good deeds have selfish motives.

Because, as was said, it is impossible for us to settle our own debt. However, Jesus stood in the "law place" of those who repent and place their faith in him. Faith implies obedience, surrender, and hence, freedom to "not sin." Without that, you are still an enemy of God through your thoughts/actions (Colossians 1:21).

***Well two things then; you said we shouldn’t be allowed to live with god because he’s holy and we’re not. Now you say holiness is perfect adherence to the law. Well, I’ve never perfectly adhered to my national laws, and neither have you. Yet we’re both allowed to live in society, because to be expelled just for any of the petty crap I’ve done would be unconscionably harsh. Why is our society fairer and more forgiving than god? Jesus said that we must be perfect like God (Matthew 5:48) in order to be in his presence when we die. You inferred correctly that this is impossible for us. Yet that is the standard for righteousness. It is the greatest dilemma in Christianity. How can God remain perfectly just and at the same time justify lawbreakers? God describes justifying the guilty without punishment as an abomination (Proverbs 17:15). Yet that is exactly what God claims to do. God in fact did set an impossible standard. However, he did not leave it at that. He stepped into history and fulfilled the requirement of the law himself. He also paid the penalty in full which was due us (Romans 3:23-26). Through faith, our guilt is imputed to him and his righteousness to us.

Biblically, in one sense, God's people are considered holy in that they have been "set apart" for God's purposes. Not that they're holy in and of themselves but that they are seen in that way by God because of their faith. In a greater sense, holiness can be seen as perfect adherence to God's Law. Impossible for us. However, demonstrated in the culmination of God's attributes and character being the standard for righteousness. [Quote] Because perfect justice should bear some resemblance to normal justice. Heck, just consider your argument here - if God made both of us without the ability to even recognise ‘perfect justice’ when it’s laid out in front of us then how on earth is it our fault that we’re not perfectly just? A defective toy is the toymaker’s responsibility You WERE made with a sense of justice (right and wrong). Otherwise, you wouldn't have a conscience. When you lie, steal, etc., you know it's wrong and do it anyway. God didn't "make you do it." That's your responsibility.

God is the standard of holiness, righeousness, goodness. It matters because he says it does. Firstly, how do you presume to know what a perfectly just being should or should not do and the reasons behind it all? Secondly, you are responsible for your own thoughts/actions.

Because, again, God is holy and we are not. He is also perfectly just and we have not only broken his laws but have offended his very nature, continually. That is why no one deserves to be in his presence and consequently deserves punishment. Justice demands it.

Heaven is where God is. God is holy. Assuming God exists, and I do, why should any of us be allowed there when we die let alone an atheist who ouright denies God?

Can an atheist go to heaven? Legally, no.

So you agree with me that there are already laws restricting gun ownership and penalties for misuse which need enforcement and that simply creating more restriction on the rest of us will not prevent another mass shooting tragedy?

And the right to bear arms is #2 right behind your right to free speech/expression. Must have thought it pretty important and foundational to the rest.

Red Herring. By that logic, because they also wrote what you said they did with regard to slavery, you should invalidate anything else you disagree with or all of it for that matter.

Our Founding Fathers had a healthy fear and distrust of government. That's why they wrote the Constitution the way they did.

Because without your right to defend it, your right to life and liberty is meaningless to those who would take it from you.

Just for the record, I don't defend Trump's idiocy. He's a tool. As long as he's pushing the agenda I want, I'm for him. But that's as far as I go. I have little respect for him as a person.