Zenister

your not contributing to anything, your letting an existing biological process take its course, as it has for millions of years.. (of course that justification might make you feel better.. "it was starving!!", so are lots of people should we shoot them too??) the primary reason bears are killed isnt population control to prevent starvation, its to maintain the "cultural carrying capacity" (preventing encroachment into human areas) the same reason cougars have nearly been hunting to extinction in many places..simply label it 'vermin' and shoot it when its on your land or steals your sheep (that you brought into its home in the first place..) its all about our own convenience and entertainment, and those are sad reasons to take any life and then put it's carcass on display for 'cool' factor... ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

its still a stupid analogy.. no where in skydiving is anyone deliberately taking a life for their own entertainment. ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

and i'm sorry if you fail to see the value of all life and that it shouldnt be taken lightly..human or otherwise, but we are doing a damn fine job of making sure we are the only species that occupies the earth...and primarily for our own convenience and entertainment. even when the animals 'win' on occasion the 'game' was still over long ago.. ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

now your just being stupid.. no one is taking a life for entertainment(other than their own perhaps) while skydiving . ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

yes but 16 year olds will still drink illegally if the law is 18...leave it to the parents. Punish the individuals when they break laws that affect others... ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

growing up in Germany i started drinking wine and beer around age 11, by 14 i was pretty much over the binge/hangover/ i feeling like absolute $%^# for two days phase... it made going to high school and college in the US rather amusing watching everyone learned what i had long ago...i also got significantly better grades in college and paid more attention in class even when i was drinking/hungover vs the 'newbies' who couldnt function after an all nighter... the government should hold people responsible for their actions, no matter what they might be under the influence of, not worry about policing what they imbibe in the the first place...it just doesnt work very well... ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

as if we need 'harvestors' no it would actually be nice. (to see a herd of cattle rampaging thru a school yard) We have a bigger population problem than any other species on earth..perhaps we should issue licenses to hunt humans? When ever animals and humans come in conflict i cheer for the animal.Your "hunting philosophy" is the exact reason why your children will never see a tiger in the wild. Everyone with a rifle thought they deserved a pelt on the wall... Actually i'm talking specifically about those who use firearms, baited feilds/game trails and treestands (the vast majority). Why dont they just shoot stray dogs? smaller targets, but just as predictable behavior...hell most of them will come when you whistle so you can get a clean shot off... ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

The easiest route possible is going to the grocery store. Do you do that, or do you hunt and kill all your own meat with your bare hands? If you don't, your stance is hypcritical. invalid argument. Did you miss the "dont need to hunt" part? 1st: I'm not taking life for entertainment, I dont hunt as i recognize it for what it is, entertainment. 2nd: When I did hunt (after my first year of hunting which left a sour taste in my mouth from how ridiculously easy it was) i have used bows and spears, both of which i helped make. ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

exactly, and (IMO) the bear's life should be given more respect than the casual recreation a hunter gets from the simple easy action of pulling the trigger. Putting your own in some danger as well is a way of showing that respect. of course some people have issues with taking life for purely entertainment purposes in the first place...if you dont need to hunt to survive, then why take the easiest route possible? the only reasons i can imagine are cowardice and sloth.. ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

See, the point you may be missin here is that it is not a hunting trophy. It is a symbol of the stock market. He's not claiming he went out and hunted the bear. He's claiming he's been successful in the stock market to the point where he can have someone go out and hunt the bear for him. It may be hard to hunt a bear with a bow. But try coming up with a proprietary mathematic formula for valuing stocks and then convince people to give you 15 billion dollars based on it. and commissioning a statue of a bear would be different how?? ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

your not going out for burgers, your taking another life and pretending you 'earned' it, people would eat alot less meat if they had to face the reality of the slaughter required for it everyday. If you have to work for your food you have alot more respect for its source. High powered rifles at long ranges is not work... 'big brave hunter' is a HUGE part of the motivation for many hunters dont believe me go talk to them when they are celebrating their "victory" over the beast... Got thumbs? Ok, use those thumbs and your superior mind to make your weapon, take that weapon and use your skills and the energy created by you to find and kill your prey. Do you think buying your prepackaged kit from the store illustrates your superiority to the bear?? hell many hunters cant even explain you how their firearm really work, and they certainly couldnt create one on their own. They buy their tools and ammo from the store, bait fields and wait for the meat to come to them, along preplanned paths that others have established for them..... and somehow think they've done something special and earned the rug/head/stuffed carcass they killed with technology they dont understand and could never replicate. Your right, we might as well change it to a 'farming' license, put the bears in the stockades next to the cows and herd them into the slaughter house. The animal has the exact same chance of survival, and the human will have about the same level of effort to get their food. Of course then hunting would lose the fantasy that appeals so much to so many... there is a fundamental wrong with buying a trophy. It certainly isnt improved by the fact that it takes more time and effort to stuff and mount it, than it did to kill it in the first place. ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

its not the killing i mind so much the manner in which it is done...long range with high powered rifles?? rather cowardly IMO... get down in it, put your own life in as much risk as the animal's whom you are taking.. the human population could use a some of the same controls... ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

another reason/way to thank the man for his service... http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2004/06/20040606-3.html Nioce! might have to do a Reagan jump on friday.....would rubber masks be funny, bad taste or a bit of both? ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

with or without a tertiary reserve? if the later......that was a pretty stupid, dumbass thing to do.... ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

had that very experience myself, but somehow managed to babble my way thru it, without giving to much away..i think.....

i've always wondered who Jerry was and why he got such a reputation for sketchy engineering fixes?? ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

that i can respect..your at least at a range the bear might be able to reach you before it dies..... ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

if you do it do it with a spear...really earn your bear pelt.. and if you lose..... i'll still tip a beer to a real hunter... ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

perhaps we should petition HH for a forum to argue about which forum an argument belongs in? ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

I'd be alittle sketchy about letting anyone else have my infinity (unless i knew them really well and wasnt jumping) but for 'spare' equipment if someone can put it use and i'm not its all yours.. My sabre is in Biscuit's rig and Cajones has my mirage and reserve in Elsinore... its all about helping out when you can...if other's hadnt done the same i'd still be looking for a wingsuit to try.... ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

pretty sad really. if you want a stuffed animal in your home or office, at least have the balls to go kill it yourself... ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

really? explain then, what is honorable about killing? it what way is it honorable to take anothers life with no risk to your own? ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

there is nothing honorable about killing your opponent with a rifle from 500 yards before he even knows your there, there is nothing honorable about artillery rounds from 20 miles out landing on your position when you can do nothing to those guns attacking you, there is nothing honorable about bombs falling from the sky from 30,000 feet killing infantry as they fire pointlessly in the air with their small arms.. nothing. but all those things do win conflicts. War isnt about honor, it is about killing your enemy before he has a chance to kill you, cutting off his supply lines and destroying his motivation to fight. It was never really about honor, and what little there was disappeared with the invention of gunpowder. if you want "honor" in combat put yourself in the same level of risk as those you are in conflict with, where what prevails is not technology, not an industrial economic machine, not strength of numbers or culture, but your own personal abilities weighed against those you call foe.... that is 'honor'. It is also a stupid way to fight a war as its very possible you could lose. ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

I'm not referring to the 'other' video at all, I'm referring to the apache footage originally under discussion, of course since being shown that you have no clue what really happened in that instance all you can do is say 'oh yea but what about this???" your statements thus far have shown you to be largely ignorant of the actions that win wars. Interdiction of supply lines has been fundamental to wining conflicts for centuries, you cant fight (well you can but you wont win) without weapons and ammo... old fashioned? read Sun Tzu..come back later... war isnt about honor. if you want 'honorable' combat, fight a duel instead... ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

got all the key words there mark ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.